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Rear Hub Stuck


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22 minutes ago, kencombs said:

It sounds like your mechanic has no experience with the type of rear axle/hub/drum used on your Mopar.  I'd strongly recommend finding one that does.

I'm with kencombs. Find a mechanic that is familiar with these tapered axle drum and their removal.

No big deal IF you have the proper puller AND the patience to allow pressure to do it's work,AND you loosen the nuts and pins (been so long I have forgotten the exact setup) on the rear backing plate,and then put pressure on your puller and smack the sides of the drums smartly all the way around. Remember,it is VIBRATIONS that break the rust/dirt/crud seal,NOT brute force.

 

Chances are the rear drums are not going to come of easily,or even on the same day you start,but with pressure and patience they WILL come off without breaking anything.

 

If I were you,I would go ahead and budget new wheel cylinders,new hoses,a new mastercylinder,and copper/steel brake lines while you are messing with it. NOTHING is as important on your car as good brakes and good steering. Spend the money now while you have it apart,and you will never regret it.

Edited by knuckleharley
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2 hours ago, Young Ed said:

That is the strangest thing ever. He should have no trouble removing with either a drill or a punch if there isn't enough to pull out normally

I think he either got the message garbled,or his mechanic has never seen or worked on cars with tapered rear axles and drums held in place by the taper.

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Yeah I agree with others ... my first thought was, if they cant remove a cotter key, how will they remove the drums?

 

Here in Hicksville TX, I went to a buddy who is same age as me and owns a automotive repair shop .... Wanted to rent his hub puller ... he had no clue what I was talking about and never used one before.

 

Just saying, your mechanic is in for a real treat if not familiar with the old tapered axles.

 

Black-Friday-Sale-TruePower-20-2029-Universal-Hub-Puller

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After rereading this, it seems this is only for a safety check.  If that is a state inspection requirement that is one thing.  But, if it just something he wants to do, maybe just rethink the whole thing. 

 

Oklahoma used to have an inspection requirement on the books that required removal of the drums to verify lining thickness.  And, the price was capped at a state-mandated fee.  One that would assure every inspection station would lose money on every one.  That led to lots of steps skipped, stickers issued for uninspected and/or defective vehicles.  And that led to suspension of inspections as the fee couldn't be reasonably raised to an effective level for the shops

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Damian said that the Cotter pins have MELTED.............maybe a previous owner or someone attacked the hub withan oxy torch and wasn't careful enough to not hit the flame directly on those cotter pins?............if so then I'd be trying to drill/drift whats left of the cotter pins out then you loosen the nut 1-2 threads and install the BIGGEST TAPERED AXLE PULLER you can find..........attached pic is the one I bought for this job 45 or so years ago.........you bolt it onto three of the studs on the drum, the centre nut is loosened 2'3 threads and you tighten the big centre bolt onto the nut/axle centre then give the centre bolt a big WACK , tighten the bolt again, again WACK..............then tighten again and another WACK and after 2 or 3 wacks the hub should come off the tapered axle, its rides on a 5/16th keyway and check the key condition when its off as the key is cheap and ssold usually in 1foot lengths, cut a new piece and install when reassembly............. ..but as the others have said if your "mechanic" hasn't any idea re these type of rear axles then try to find someone else........lol...................Welcome Aboard BTW from Oztralia.........BTW strongly suggest you obtain a Workshop Manual............Andy Douglas 

P1000765 (800x600).jpg

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I maybe got a dumb question here. Sounds like its a pain in the hinder to get these drums off to start with. Once you have them off, do what ever needs to be done and are ready to button every thing up. Can a guy put some anti-seize on the axle shaft to keep it from sticking again or is it the nature of the beast when tightening the nut on a tapered shaft?

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1 hour ago, ccudahy said:

I maybe got a dumb question here. Sounds like its a pain in the hinder to get these drums off to start with. Once you have them off, do what ever needs to be done and are ready to button every thing up. Can a guy put some anti-seize on the axle shaft to keep it from sticking again or is it the nature of the beast when tightening the nut on a tapered shaft?

 

They can be difficult. But with the proper puller it's not too bad. I don't recommend using anything on the tapered shaft upon reassembly as power transfer relies on having a clean metal to metal fit. If you ever decide you need to pull your rear brake drums you are welcome to borrow my puller, since you are fairly close by. 

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11 minutes ago, Merle Coggins said:

They can be difficult. But with the proper puller it's not too bad. I don't recommend using anything on the tapered shaft upon reassembly as power transfer relies on having a clean metal to metal fit. If you ever decide you need to pull your rear brake drums you are welcome to borrow my puller, since you are fairly close by. 

Thanks for the info and the offer! Just a thought since it seems like such a problem.👍

Edited by ccudahy
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2 hours ago, ccudahy said:

I maybe got a dumb question here. Sounds like its a pain in the hinder to get these drums off to start with. Once you have them off, do what ever needs to be done and are ready to button every thing up. Can a guy put some anti-seize on the axle shaft to keep it from sticking again or is it the nature of the beast when tightening the nut on a tapered shaft?

Some folks do. I don’t.  Shop manual specifically forbids. 

 

 

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The friction fit of the hub to the shaft is what transfers the power.  Relying on just the key to do that will result in sheared off keys.  It's not really a pain if you have the right tools.

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I have not tried to take mine off yet. Kinda nervous after reading all the horror stories on the forum. Hours spent breaking tools and then ripping the bearing out of the drum when it does come loose for them to still be stuck on the axle!😭  Just trying to put a game plan together when the time comes. Thanks for the info, Sniper and kencombs!

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Patience is the key.  You can let the puller sit over night while it applies pressure.  Just make sure you only loosen the nut, not remove it, because when the hub lets loose it can fly on you.  A good hammer to bang on the tightening part of the puller is important as well.

 

Once you get it loose for the first time in who knows how many years it should be easier later on, assuming you regularly inspect the brakes.

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47 minutes ago, ccudahy said:

I have not tried to take mine off yet. Kinda nervous after reading all the horror stories on the forum. Hours spent breaking tools and then ripping the bearing out of the drum when it does come loose for them to still be stuck on the axle!😭  Just trying to put a game plan together when the time comes. Thanks for the info, Sniper and kencombs!

Just like most things on the net or in life in general you don't hear about the normal ones. I personally pulled drums off one that was in the junkyard for decades. We gutted the brakes put the drums back on and tow dolly towed it home. 

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2 hours ago, Young Ed said:

Just like most things on the net or in life in general you don't hear about the normal ones. I personally pulled drums off one that was in the junkyard for decades. We gutted the brakes put the drums back on and tow dolly towed it home. 

 

I agree with this. I have pulled dozens of drums without any trouble. One was on a car where the rear axle was buried in the ground. That was probably the toughest but I got the drums off the same day I started using just the puller with no penetrating oil or heat. If done correctly, most drums pose little problem. A good puller is essential and correct use is just as important. Never hit the centre large piece that lines up with the axle on the end as this can cause problems to the bearing races and internals of the differential. There should be a wishbone that goes on the large central piece and you pound on that turning the central shaft in a clock-wise motion. Don't be afraid to REALLY POUND HARD on the wishbone. Brute force is necessary. As mentioned, do not fully remove the axle nuts. Just undo them a few turns. When that drum pops it will make a VERY LOUD noise. Only the drum will come as the axle is held in place by the backing plate. Without the nut on the end of the axle, the drum, with the puller attached, will launch itself into you or anything else like another vehicle that is in the way. 

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12 hours ago, Merle Coggins said:

 

They can be difficult. But with the proper puller it's not too bad. I don't recommend using anything on the tapered shaft upon reassembly as power transfer relies on having a clean metal to metal fit. If you ever decide you need to pull your rear brake drums you are welcome to borrow my puller, since you are fairly close by. 

THAT is the sort of thing that makes this board so special. I have seen offers like this,as well as free parts offered to other Mopar fans on this board fairly often,and I have NEVER seen it on any other antique auto board. Not even once.

 

Good on you,Merle! If you ever happen to be within 200 miles of where I live and have some sort of mechanical problem,send me a PM. I check the board every day.

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12 hours ago, ccudahy said:

Thanks for the info and the offer! Just a thought since it seems like such a problem.👍

It really isn't a problem IF you have the right puller,and a little patience. It's just more difficult than pulling the typical modern rear brake drum.

 

BTW,I saw where you asked about lubing the axle end. No,you don't want to lube it,but you do want to inspect it carefully for dings,rust,and any other problems it might have before you put the drum back on. A LITTLE bit of polishing with an emery cloth if it is rough/pitted can be a big help when you go to pull it the next time. You are NOT looking for a "chrome-like" finish. You are looking for smooth with no burrs.

 

Same with the inside of your drum where it slides over the axle. Check it for smoothness,also.

 

BTW,30's Fords are afflicted with the same problem. Last pair of those suckers I pulled were on a 37 pu that seems to have spend several years in a stream bed before I got it. When I finally did get the drums off,they were too pitted to use.

 

No real surprise. I bought it for nothing money to basically get the good serial number off the chassis. Sold the front axle for more than I paid for the truck.

Edited by knuckleharley
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Old jeeps,  AMC cars..really old AMC Ramblers and a host of other cars and trucks had tapered axles.

Brake shops and regular repair shops had these drums off quickly...no fooling around...good tooling ...knowledgeable mechanic.

Get'er done....the customer needs their car next day.

Diy'er newbies might take a week or more for some to get two drums off.

Just the way it goes first time.

I started on these type drums and axles when I was sixteen.

Never waited for them to pop.

I got them off just like the old guy up the street did them.

He had a pretty good sized hammer and seemed like a strong old man.

He taught me and now I'm just like him😁

I've removed hundreds of tapered axle style drums from the small Plymouth's to the big V12 Packards.

All good exercise too.

 

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10 hours ago, knuckleharley said:

THAT is the sort of thing that makes this board so special. I have seen offers like this,as well as free parts offered to other Mopar fans on this board fairly often,and I have NEVER seen it on any other antique auto board. Not even once.

 

Good on you,Merle! If you ever happen to be within 200 miles of where I live and have some sort of mechanical problem,send me a PM. I check the board every day.

 

Thanks Knuckle... I don’t know what part of NC you are in, but I used to get down to Asheville quite often. Unfortunately since Volvo CE moved their headquarters up to Shippensburg, PA several years ago I don’t get down there anymore. Now Shippensburg is my frequent travel destination. 

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5 hours ago, Merle Coggins said:

 

Thanks Knuckle... I don’t know what part of NC you are in, but I used to get down to Asheville quite often. Unfortunately since Volvo CE moved their headquarters up to Shippensburg, PA several years ago I don’t get down there anymore. Now Shippensburg is my frequent travel destination. 

Northeastern NC. Rural area.

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