Tom Skinner Posted April 15, 2016 Report Share Posted April 15, 2016 I noticed a Drop or two of something coming out at the bottom of my right rear Wheel. I got under there and determined it was rear axle grease - not brake fluid. I got my puller out and pulled the right rear wheel drum - my observation was correct. My outer seal leaked a drop or so. Seven years ago I replaced my inner rear axle seals. I re-installed the same old outer's so now a small leak. I called and ordered new outer seals, and was told if the outer's are leaking the inner's are also. I am OK with that and ordered 2 Inner and 2 outer seals which I will install next week when they get here. My question is: how tight to tighten the rear castle nuts on the rear axles. I had snugged them down 1-2 LBS or so and stuck a new cotter pin in 7 years ago, and when I used the puller to remove the drum - no pop like last time. I referenced my Torque Spec on Page 311 in my Manual and couldn't determine if there was a Torque setting. I know you just snug the front Castle Nuts on the front axle, and back off a Castle Nut wedge and install the cotter pins on the front Axles. Am I right to assume this is also true on the rear axle castle nuts also? Tom Huntersville, North Carolina. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Young Ed Posted April 16, 2016 Report Share Posted April 16, 2016 (edited) I noticed a Drop or two of something coming out at the bottom of my right rear Wheel. I got under there and determined it was rear axle grease - not brake fluid. I got my puller out and pulled the right rear wheel drum - my observation was correct. My outer seal leaked a drop or so. Seven years ago I replaced my inner rear axle seals. I re-installed the same old outer's so now a small leak. I called and ordered new outer seals, and was told if the outer's are leaking the inner's are also. I am OK with that and ordered 2 Inner and 2 outer seals which I will install next week when they get here. My question is: how tight to tighten the rear castle nuts on the rear axles. I had snugged them down 1-2 LBS or so and stuck a new cotter pin in 7 years ago, and when I used the puller to remove the drum - no pop like last time. I referenced my Torque Spec on Page 311 in my Manual and couldn't determine if there was a Torque setting. I know you just snug the front Castle Nuts on the front axle, and back off a Castle Nut wedge and install the cotter pins on the front Axles. Am I right to assume this is also true on the rear axle castle nuts also? Tom Huntersville, North Carolina. That is way too lose. The spec I believe is 142 ft lbs MINIMUM. In other words they have to be TIGHT. I didn't get them tight enough on my 46 pickup and I would occasionally hear a clunk when starting out. Figured out after I would back up the drums would shift on the key and then I would get the noise when going forward again Edited April 16, 2016 by Young Ed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plymouthy Adams Posted April 16, 2016 Report Share Posted April 16, 2016 you tighten the nut to the point of almost straining yours 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TodFitch Posted April 16, 2016 Report Share Posted April 16, 2016 That is way too lose. The spec I believe is 162 ft lbs MINIMUM. In other words they have to be TIGHT. I didn't get them tight enough on my 46 pickup and I would occasionally hear a clunk when starting out. Figured out after I would back up the drums would shift on the key and then I would get the noise when going forward again It is actually 142 ft-lbs minimum, see: http://www.ply33.com/Repair/torque you tighten the nut to the point of almost straining yours I weigh a bit over 200 lbs. I figure with a 2 foot breaker bar and most of my weight on it, the nut is probably tight enough. The bear is going to the next castellation slot after that to get the cotter pin in. And you really, really, really need to put in the cotter pin. Don't ask me how I know (fortunately it was adjacent to a garage/shop and at low speeds). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgeb4ya Posted April 16, 2016 Report Share Posted April 16, 2016 (edited) You need to be really careful installing the inner correct oil seals. Don't cave them in when driving them into the housing. Use a driver that matches the exact OD of the seal. Edited April 16, 2016 by Dodgeb4ya 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solution Tom Skinner Posted April 16, 2016 Author Solution Report Share Posted April 16, 2016 (edited) Hey - Abbott - Iv'e been a bad boy - Abbott. (Abbott and Costello) Shoot now I know why them seals leak - for starters I bumped the Inner Seals in with a tiny block of wood - not neat - little dents etc. Second, I didn't replace the outer seals coming back out. Third I only snugged the rear axle castle nuts like one would on the front spindles. Thank you all for the Great advice! I did hear a kooky scratching noise from time to time turning corners slowly. I figured that out though by looking at the back of the hubcap weird circle of scratches at the back of the center of the cap came from the cotter pin rubbing a circular scratch pattern on that right rear wheel hubcap - mystery solved. I'm gonna fix that too by installing the cotter pin correctly - sideways. I bet I get it right this time. I looked at Page 311 again, 142 LBS Thanks again! Tom Edited April 16, 2016 by Tom Skinner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Young Ed Posted April 16, 2016 Report Share Posted April 16, 2016 It is actually 142 ft-lbs minimum, see: http://www.ply33.com/Repair/torque I weigh a bit over 200 lbs. I figure with a 2 foot breaker bar and most of my weight on it, the nut is probably tight enough. The bear is going to the next castellation slot after that to get the cotter pin in. And you really, really, really need to put in the cotter pin. Don't ask me how I know (fortunately it was adjacent to a garage/shop and at low speeds). Thanks for the correction-that's what I get for doing it from memory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpollo Posted April 16, 2016 Report Share Posted April 16, 2016 as others have noted, TIGHT ! but that is when all parts are new. Recently I have discovered a loose rear axle nut after 15000 miles of running and mentioned this to another long-time mechanic who was replacing the gearset in his 48 Dodge. He tightened both axle nuts to about 150 ft lbs. , drove the car 300 miles and rechecked them. Both were loose. So my advice to myself and all who will listen, make them tight initially and retighten them after a few hundred miles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bingster Posted April 16, 2016 Report Share Posted April 16, 2016 I have some small castle nuts taken off bolts for my S-11 that I don't know where they came off of. What application in a smaller bolt would use one? And Who Is On First? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plymouthy Adams Posted April 16, 2016 Report Share Posted April 16, 2016 front suspension parts are usually fixed with castellated nuts 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VFFFrank Posted April 16, 2016 Report Share Posted April 16, 2016 Jump in and correct me if I'm full of it, but.....if the cotter pin is making a circular scratch on the backside of a rear hubcap, then the axle must be turning independently of the wheel. That implies that the axle key is sheared or wasn't in there to begin with. Although the nut should be tightened to spec, one can't rely solely on the friction at the taper to prevent slippage there. ?? Once the keyways are damaged, it will always be a recurring problem. Frank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plymouthy Adams Posted April 16, 2016 Report Share Posted April 16, 2016 (edited) I would think if the cotter pin is anywhere near the cap....you got a serious problem or a very long cotter pin Edited April 16, 2016 by Plymouthy Adams Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niel Hoback Posted April 16, 2016 Report Share Posted April 16, 2016 I think there are 9/16 on the rear axle housing bolts and the rear backing plate to housing bolts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Skinner Posted April 16, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 16, 2016 (edited) I had the Hubcap on the Front as well. My Cotter Pins are too long. The Hub Caps are the shallow newer replacement type. I have the originals in a box in the garage. The Car has rode fine for 7 years with the Rear Axle Nuts at Snug, but I am wondering now could that have caused some internal gear damage in the pumpkin? I guess I'll know when I drain the pumpkin, and see the bottom of the pan. Edited April 16, 2016 by Tom Skinner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Young Ed Posted April 16, 2016 Report Share Posted April 16, 2016 I had the Hubcap on the Front as well. My Cotter Pins are too long. The Hub Caps are the shallow newer replacement type. I have the originals in a box in the garage. The Car has rode fine for 7 years with the Rear Axle Nuts at Snug, but I am wondering now could that have caused some internal gear damage in the pumpkin? I guess I'll know when I drain the pumpkin, and see the bottom of the pan. Look for damage to the key and keyways in drum and axle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Skinner Posted April 16, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 16, 2016 (edited) Drained Pumpkin. No Damage. Key Ways and Spindles fine. No Metal shavings in Grease at bottom of Vessel. Torqued the Castles back to 150 L.B.S. . By the way when a Floor Jack is Lifting the Pumpkin - Both Rear Wheels off the ground then spin one or other wheel the Cotter pin Spins with the Axle - That is how the Long Cotter Pin - Twisted Ends Scratched a Circular Pattern into the back of that Hubcap. Shook back Wheels seems like there was no damage whatsoever. No play where wheel beraings seem concerned. I will pull Axles next week and look closely at the Wheel Bearings, and report back. Looks like I dodged a bullet - Abbott Edited April 16, 2016 by Tom Skinner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Coatney Posted April 16, 2016 Report Share Posted April 16, 2016 You can cut the ends of the long cotter pin with a pair of cutting pliers. I have done this many times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Skinner Posted April 16, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 16, 2016 Don, Will do, sometimes I just don't think! Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VFFFrank Posted April 16, 2016 Report Share Posted April 16, 2016 Of course the cotter pin moves around with the axle......it goes through the axle and nut. However, the axle, hub, drum, wheel and wheelcover (aka "hubcap") also go with it so I'm wondering how the cotter pin can make a circular scratch on the inside of the hubcap unless the axle is turning independently of the hub? Someone enlighten me, please. F Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave72dt Posted April 16, 2016 Report Share Posted April 16, 2016 (edited) The hub cap should turn one to one with the axle when installed, same as the axle nut so the scratches may still be a mystery. I've heard, not seen, that caps may tend to "walk" a bit and this may be causing the scratches. Mention is the past has been about valve stems and trim rings walking so the same may be happening with the caps. Edited April 16, 2016 by Dave72dt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Skinner Posted April 16, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 16, 2016 The Scratches are not severe so I go along with the hubcap walking some. I don't know what else it could have been? Maybe the End of the Long Cotter Pin leaned against the Cap enough to make it walk??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Coatney Posted April 16, 2016 Report Share Posted April 16, 2016 Decorative hub caps clipped to the rim do have a tendency to walk. But the hub cap covering the front axle bearings should not walk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave72dt Posted April 16, 2016 Report Share Posted April 16, 2016 (edited) The grease cap? Yeah, no walking. Rear axle doesn't have one, does it? If it does, disregard the walking. Edited April 16, 2016 by Dave72dt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Coatney Posted April 16, 2016 Report Share Posted April 16, 2016 The grease cap? Yeah, no walking. Rear axle doesn't have one, does it? If it does, disregard the walking. I dont think the rear axle has a cap Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Skinner Posted April 17, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 17, 2016 No cap at the rear wheels. I am positive it walked while on that back right wheel as that's where that noise seemed to come from on slow turns back into my neighborhood streets coming in from riding her once a week. I guess I should say I only typically drive about 15 miles a week, unless there's a car show that takes me 40 or so miles up the road. So in total I probably only drove about 7,000 miles with the rear axle castle nuts at about 10 LBS tightness, however, and until I pull the Axles next weekend there seems to have been no damage whatsoever to the Differential Gears, Spindles, or Keyways. I am just going to hope the Bearings aren't monked up, if so I will also replace them as well. Then I will require some help pressing them off and pressing new ones back on. Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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