Hard starting

[Allen I.]

When it rains, it pours. Nary a problem for a while and then all heck breaks loose.

Occasionally I had problems starting the old truck but nothing too annoying. A couple, 3 weeks ago had a catastrophic failure of the generator and put in a 6 volt alternator.

Now, she won't turn over. Before the alternator was put in I put 12 volts right to the starter and she fired right up. Later, she started on the first try with a new 6 volt battery. I ran her through the gears and up and down the area streets without any problems.

After that, nothing. I got her to cough a couple times but that's it. I have spark, battery cables and connections are clean and tight, polarity and grounds are correct for the alternator.

I did get a strong smell of gasoline and think I may have flooded her the last time when I was trying to get her started.

I fear it is the starter. Any ideas?

[Don Coatney]

Have you pulled the spark plugs to look at them and clean them if required?

[Allen I.]

Yup. Did that. Also I have spark from coil, but maybe not enough? Gapped correctly, new wires in proper firing sequence.

Also update, came home from work and decided to try starting her up for grins. She started and I took for a drive. Bogged down heavily in 2nd and 3rd (3 on tree) when asking for more power, can't tell if it is starving for gas or wanting more. Did not seem to matter where choke was. back in driveway after 15 minutes, shut down and will not start again. Strong gas smell again on start attempts. Got mad, started to rain, in the house again.

[Jim Shepard]

I switched to a 6V alternator and it starts very well every time. In fact, I've never used the choke or throttle. I used an Optima, which was recommended by Fifth Avenue. It has 800 CCA. It's hard to believe you have an electrical issue.

[Allen I.]

Rechecked all wires. Checked points gap. Tested voltage.

6 volts to starter. Only 4.5 going to coil. Nothing from coil. then a flicker, Then nothing on successive starts.

Maybe the coil is going and I have just been lucky when it does start?

Anyone have a part number? The only thing that has been messed recently with is the electrical. I know I an a bit of a hack but I'd rather try this last thing first. Then on to the mechanical.

[48WingNut]

You can pick up a coil at most automotive places. I got mine from Performance Automotive (which is "Bumper to Bumper") here in Mich.

[dmulhall]

I had the same problem with starting for the longest time...

finally, it was idling outside the garage one day, and it just quit and

wouldnt start again...

traced it back to the coil, then found a used one in a box I had in the garage...put it in, and havnt had a problem since...

[Allen I.]

New coil. No dice. Any suggestions?

[maurice wade]

New coil. No dice. Any suggestions?

It may be worth a try and check the float, check to see if the float has any holes in it, (just fill a pan with water). Check for proper float height. What kind of condition is your points in?

[greg g]

Condensor???? is your coil wire fully seated in the dist cap??? Try jumping the coil from the battery by passing your ignition switch, perhaps there may be a problem there.

[Norm's Coupe]

I'm making a wild guess, but you may have fried something with that 12 volt battery.

You said the coil is new and so is the alternator, but you get no spark. That puts the possible electrical problem on the starter side of the electrical and not the plugs. I would look at the starter solenoid before pulling the starter. If you have a spare, replace it. If not jump over it and bypass it to test. If that's not it, I'd look at the points. You could have welded them together or fried the contact on the rotor. If all that checks out, then test the starter in the truck without pulling it. If you know someone with a 6 volt engine analyzer you can test the starter without removing it. Don't forget about the voltage regulator either. If you've added any type of ceramic resistor in the starting system, check that.

I would rule out a mechanical problem simply because you did have spark before and now you don't. Your problem is with the electrical between the alternator and the distributor. You might want to run a test on your alternator too. Maybe it got messed up with the 12 volt battery jump. I'd check the stuff in my first paragraph first though.

[Allen I.]

How heavy should the wire be from the coil post to the distributor? In checking the wires again I found this one to be kind skimpy and a little frayed (not enough to really effect anything but it was loose too).

I looked at a couple pics of other engines and it appears that this wire should be beefier.

The distributor and all parts within look almost brand new. Points are gapped properly (made that mistake before), rotor is fine, condensor and other wires are seated/connected properly.

It has been too darn hot to crawl on the driveway which means it is too darn hot to ride around in the truck for any period of time.

I gotta clean out the garage....

Thanks

[Merle Coggins]

The wire diagram in my manual doesn't show the wire between the coil and distributor, but the power feed wire from the ign switch is a 14 gauge Red wire. Another diagram for the Power Wagon's shows the same #14 wire to the coil, and a #16 Black wire to the dist. I'd have to say, if you want to play it safe, use a 14 gauge wire.

In rereading your original post on this thread you said "she won't turn over", and you were suspecting a bad starter. Do you mean it won't crank, or it cranks over but won't fire. Those would be two different problems. If it won't crank over without jumping with 12v, I'd say maybe you do have a starter problem. If it cranks over OK, but won't fire up and run, you have another problem. You say you have spark, but you have a strong gas smell. Sounds like it is flooded. Maybe you have a carb problem that is pooring the gas through. Or maybe your air cleaner is plugged? Have you checked it lately? It may start and run at idle, after any residual gas evaporates, but would lack power at higher RPM and under load. It would act as if the choke was full on all the time. This could be causing an over rich mixture giving you the gas smell and causing it to foul/flood out.

Good luck,

Merle

[Allen I.]

There is a wire from the + post of the coil to the base of the distributor. It has been there since I bought the truck and is the only wire there.

I took off the air cleaner thinkng that might have been an issue.

The starter turns over but does not fire up. Every so often she'll sound like she wants to go but does not fire. I notice no sound or speed difference in the starter from the day I brought it home.

I get the smell of gas when I get ticked and try the kitchen sink approach and fiddle with the knobs and pedals after a bunch of cranking.

That's what I get for bragging about a truck that started on the first try after sitting in the cold all winter.

Would a bad ignition switch give me the same problems?

[Merle Coggins]

Could a condensor short out and cause a lack of spark? I guess I never fully understood the role of the condensor in a points system. It's supposed to suppress the arc across the points when they open, right? If it was shorted out, wouldn't that create a direct short on the coil ground wire? It would then act like the points were always closed and the coil wouldn't fire.

Just another thought.

Keep plugging away. You'll get it eventually.

Speaking of "plugging"... How are your plugs? Maybe they're getting fouled up from all the flooding / missfiring. Have you tried a new set?

Merle

[greg g]

A bad condenser will disable an ignition system, a mis matched condenser can cause various drivability problems, hard starts, skipping, misses at certain rpm, etc. etc. You can't reliably test them so they were probably the start of todays replace stuff till its fixed syndrom. So replace it anyway. Also check the wire from the coil terminal to the points inside the dizzy.

[Allen I.]

OK. Replaced all the stuff that goes from time to time in the ignition. I'm amazed the wires in the dizzy were working at all. The only thing holding them together was the covering on the wires. Made a couple of them and rechecked everything and tried to start.

Couple cranks and I was off. Drove around the block without any drops in power. I was a happy man. Let her idle in the driveway for a bit and then shut her down. Tried to start about a half hour later and no go. I popped off the distributor cap and found the points WAY far apart. Regapped, tightened all the screws I could get to and started again.

Drove around, shut her down again, tried to start, ZIPPO. Opened the cap and gap way off again. I am writing here because my friends are laughing at the guy that cannot gap his points. When I try now, I cannot get them close enough because when I tighten the set screw it walks back to about 0.035.

Anyone ever have this problem? I feel like a moron.

[Don Jordan]

Thank you so much for all this information. I have been reluctant to join the forum because since the format change I have a problem navigating around.

I too have problems starting. Rebuilt generator, starter, new voltage regulator, all new and correct wires in the engine compartment and under the dash. Brand new battery. It will turn the engine over but not fast enough to start. If I spray starter fluid in the carb I can get it going. Once going it runs fine. I shut it off and it won't ever turn over. I have not replaced the coil. I will give that a shot. I don't know what else to do. The battery is charged.

Next step - coil and someone suggested condenser - I'm up for anything.

Thanks for all the information. I hope I can find this forum again.

d-

[Guest Dave Claussen]

If you are using Microsoft Internet Explorer, just go up to your tool bar at the top of the page and under "File" there should be a line that says "Send" and when you click on that another pop up window should open that has rhe choice of "shortcut to desktop" If you click on that, and then go back to your desktop, there should be a new icon there for the forum that you can double click on that will take you directly to the forum page. That way you don't have to search around the web looking for your favorite web pages. Hope this helps. Dave

[Merle Coggins]

Don,

Sounds like you may possibly have bad battery cables. You say your battery is new but it still cranks slow, and after it's warmed up it won't even crank.

If your cables have high resistance they will consume some of the voltage before it can get to the starter. (basic law of resistance in a series circuit) And it's possible that when the cables get hot that resistance increases even more causing the voltage at the starter to be insufficient to crank it over.

I would suggest replacing your battery cables with good quality 0 or 00 gauge cable. Don't use generic off the shelf cables for modern cars, they are too light.

Good luck,

Merle

[lscrymgeour]

Don

I have a similar problem except when I shut it off it turns over fine but will not start. If I pour a little gas into the throat of the carb then it starts and runs fine. Not sure if we have the same problem or not but am looking for possible solutions.

Lyle

[MBF]

Could be the fuel in the carburator bowl is boiling causing flooding condition, or it could be fuel vapor lock. Is the fuel line between the carb and fuel pump insulated or real close to the exhaust manifold? You may also want to check the amp draw of your starter. If your wiring (terminals, connections, and cabling) is corroded or dirty it will create resistance that will starve the ignition system causing a weak spark.

[Vintrader]

I have a few trucks that turn over just fine but unless the system if fully charged or is jumped will not have enough juice to fire the engine. I am hoping that the 6 volt alt. that I plain to install at the end of the summer will take care of this. All I know for sure is ( You Gotta Have Da Juice ) Dutch

[Allen I.]

My problem was a bad ground wire in the dizzy and my points not staying set. The points remain a challenge but the wiring and almost the entire ignition has been redone piecemeal over the last few weeks.