finmad Posted November 2, 2015 Report Share Posted November 2, 2015 Ok, so I have worked out my vacuum leak is most likely a valve issue, and I need to check the clearances. I am nervous about this, the thought of opening the side plates of a running motor and sticking wrenches and feeler gauges in there is scary. I need some tips and advice. Do I need special wrenches? The service manual does not indicate the size wrench and if special wrenches are needed. Which way to turn which nut (top or bottom) to increase or decrease clearance What clearance is correct? it says .008 for intake and .010 for exhaust, but there is a ** next to one of the intake entries and it says .010 for intake as well. Is there an access panel under the fender on that side? Or do I have to take the whole fender off? Any special tricks or tips? Here is a video I found and it looks simple enough, but I am still nervous. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8G3MJGuKIQ8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merle Coggins Posted November 2, 2015 Report Share Posted November 2, 2015 (edited) It's good to see that my video is still getting some play. You don't have to do your valve adjustment with the engine running, but I have found that it is a little more accurate. You can also adjust the valves with the engine off. The procedure should be in the shop manual. (edit: I just checked the manual and it references adjusting with the engine running) The engine should be hot for a proper adjustment. If you go to the "Resources" tab at the top of this page there is a Tech section with a valve adjustment procedure for engine off. You don't need any special tools, but they help. You will need 1/2" and 7/16" open end wrenches. If you get yourself a set of tappet wrenches you will find that they are easier to use. They are longer and thinner and work better for reaching into the valve area. Also, longer bent tip feeler gauges make things easier as well. Again, it helps with the reach. These tools also help keep your hands further away from the hot exhaust manifold. And speaking of that... a good pair of gloves is a plus too. I'm not familiar with your truck model, but on the Pilot-House trucks the inner fender panel comes out, and if you pull the right front tire you have fairly good access to the valves. Maybe Ed can chime in on the earlier trucks. And again, on the B-Series trucks the clearance specs are; Intake .010" / Exhaust .014" / HOT. When you adjust the tappets think of the upper part as a bolt that's screwing into the bottom section (because that's basically what it is). Screw the upper part into the lower part to increase the clearance, and screw it out to reduce the clearance. Merle Edited November 2, 2015 by Merle Coggins 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merle Coggins Posted November 2, 2015 Report Share Posted November 2, 2015 Bent type Tappet Feeler Gauges Long Tappet Wrenches. Craftsman has a set for around $25. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finmad Posted November 2, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 2, 2015 Awesome, Your video did help a lot, and I appreciate the tips. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Young Ed Posted November 2, 2015 Report Share Posted November 2, 2015 I'm not familiar with your truck model, but on the Pilot-House trucks the inner fender panel comes out, and if you pull the right front tire you have fairly good access to the valves. Maybe Ed can chime in on the earlier trucks. And again, on the B-Series trucks the clearance specs are; Intake .010" / Exhaust .014" / HOT. Yes the inner fender should be removable. There are bolts across the top and then one at the very back bottom corner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TodFitch Posted November 2, 2015 Report Share Posted November 2, 2015 . . . And speaking of that... a good pair of gloves is a plus too. . . Definitely! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Balazs Posted November 2, 2015 Report Share Posted November 2, 2015 Did this engine sit idle for a long time? If so you may not actually have a problem caused by tappet clearance as such. My engine which sat for many years took a quite a while and multiple detergent oil changes to completely free up the valves. I could actually see it getting better slowly on the vacuum gauge I have installed. No needle bounce at all now. The sludge issues with these engines are pretty well known. Once all that old crud is washed out of the system you may be pleasantly surprised at how well they can run. Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Roberts Posted November 2, 2015 Report Share Posted November 2, 2015 As mentioned , your inner fender panel should be removed . It might be stubborn like mine was and I was only able to move it half way up . That worked out OK as I just tied it out of the way with a piece of wire or cord . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brent B3B Posted November 2, 2015 Report Share Posted November 2, 2015 Long Tappet Wrenches. Craftsman has a set for around $25. or, depending how redneck a guy is feeling... you could make you own out of those cheeper wrenches Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finmad Posted November 2, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 2, 2015 (edited) Did this engine sit idle for a long time? If so you may not actually have a problem caused by tappet clearance as such. My engine which sat for many years took a quite a while and multiple detergent oil changes to completely free up the valves. I could actually see it getting better slowly on the vacuum gauge I have installed. No needle bounce at all now. The sludge issues with these engines are pretty well known. Once all that old crud is washed out of the system you may be pleasantly surprised at how well they can run. Jeff I do think there is some of that going on here, I was told not to use detergent oil. I have been running 4 qts of straight 30 weight with one quart MMM. I know opinions are like assholes "everyone has one and most stink" BUTT (pun intended) should I switch to detergent for a while? Edited November 2, 2015 by finmad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Balazs Posted November 2, 2015 Report Share Posted November 2, 2015 I do think there is some of that going on here, I was told not to use detergent oil. I have been running 4 qts of straight 30 weight with one quart MMM. I know opinions are like assholes "everyone has one and most stink" BUTT (pun intended) should I switch to detergent for a while? I can only tell you what has worked well for me. Before I ever started this engine I dropped the oil pan and pulled the head. I did this to determine what the general condition was. I found nice clean bores with little wear. The oil in it was relatively clean but there were heavy deposits of sludge in the pan. So i cleaned the pan real good and took the valve inspection covers off and scrubbed and flushed it out as best I could. I had the head resurfaced and installed a new head gasket with new head bolts. I also replaced all the manifold studs and and trued the mating surfaces. Once I had the engine running pretty well I installed a vacuum gauge. Based on the readings I got I figured a few of the valves were sticking a bit. I have used detergent oil as I believe it is the only thing that will get the build up of crud out of an engine like this. I have changed the oil several times and it just keeps getting cleaner and cleaner. I did drop the oil pan again and found a fair amount of gooey sludge in the very bottom of the pan. That tells me the detergents are doing the job. As I have already mentioned the engine runs very smooth and quiet with good even compression. I checked the valves once when cold and have not felt it necessary to mess about with them since. Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merle Coggins Posted November 2, 2015 Report Share Posted November 2, 2015 I do think there is some of that going on here, I was told not to use detergent oil. I have been running 4 qts of straight 30 weight with one quart MMM. I know opinions are like assholes "everyone has one and most stink" BUTT (pun intended) should I switch to detergent for a while? The MMO will act as a detergent and help clean the engine. So you actually created your own detergent oil, of sorts. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallytoo Posted November 2, 2015 Report Share Posted November 2, 2015 adjusting the valves with the engine running is not hard. i was able to accomplish it using "normal" wrenches and feeler gauges. i did wear gloves, because several of the valve adjusters are behind the exhaust head pipe, and all are just below the exhaust manifold. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finmad Posted November 4, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 4, 2015 I bit the bullet and opened up the access panel and removed the tire, I got in the side plates and was able to adjust 11 lifters, but one is stuck very open. It is the only one ticking and I can not adjust it. I am using standard length wrenches so I will order a set of long wrenches and see if this gives me more leverage. On a side note, the truck idles at 500rpm and the vacuum gauge is steady and holding at 19. Excellent job guys with your advice and recommendations. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Young Ed Posted November 4, 2015 Report Share Posted November 4, 2015 I bit the bullet and opened up the access panel and removed the tire, I got in the side plates and was able to adjust 11 lifters, but one is stuck very open. It is the only one ticking and I can not adjust it. I am using standard length wrenches so I will order a set of long wrenches and see if this gives me more leverage. On a side note, the truck idles at 500rpm and the vacuum gauge is steady and holding at 19. Excellent job guys with your advice and recommendations. Work on that one with the engine off/cold and then when you get it free do the final adjustment. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ggdad1951 Posted November 5, 2015 Report Share Posted November 5, 2015 I bit the bullet and opened up the access panel and removed the tire, I got in the side plates and was able to adjust 11 lifters, but one is stuck very open. It is the only one ticking and I can not adjust it. I am using standard length wrenches so I will order a set of long wrenches and see if this gives me more leverage. On a side note, the truck idles at 500rpm and the vacuum gauge is steady and holding at 19. Excellent job guys with your advice and recommendations. I still have one tick on FEF just live with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finmad Posted November 11, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 11, 2015 I picked up a set of vintage Blue point extra long tappet wrenches and holly cow are they great. It took me longer to get the access panel out than it did to adjust all the tappets to .010 with the motor running. It now runs so quiet you almost cant hear it. I can only tell it is running by the light vibration in the cab. Adjusting the valves cured my vacuum issue. now the gauge is right at 19 and holds. The truck idles at 450 with no surging or misses. This is how these trucks were meant to run and until you have it tuned nice, you do not know what a good tuned truck is like. PERFECT. You guys are great for all the info and help. here is a video of the vacuum gauge after the valves are adjusted https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZX9cK1_8bw 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
55 Fargo Posted November 11, 2015 Report Share Posted November 11, 2015 I picked up a set of vintage Blue point extra long tappet wrenches and holly cow are they great. It took me longer to get the access panel out than it did to adjust all the tappets to .010 with the motor running. It now runs so quiet you almost cant hear it. I can only tell it is running by the light vibration in the cab. Adjusting the valves cured my vacuum issue. now the gauge is right at 19 and holds. The truck idles at 450 with no surging or misses. This is how these trucks were meant to run and until you have it tuned nice, you do not know what a good tuned truck is like. PERFECT. You guys are great for all the info and help. here is a video of the vacuum gauge after the valves are adjusted https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZX9cK1_8bw Good go, sounds like it's running nice, the needle is still bouncing slightly, like mine does, but why? On my other engines, that needle is dead steady. How was it before? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finmad Posted November 11, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 11, 2015 Good go, sounds like it's running nice, the needle is still bouncing slightly, like mine does, but why? On my other engines, that needle is dead steady. How was it before? This is what it looked like before and I could only get it here with the rpms way up. If I brought them down below 800 the needle bounced from 15 to 22. http://s202.photobucket.com/user/dschlick/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-10/D95B6BD5-ED83-4F6F-9002-590F56AFF56A_zpsdwug8utr.mp4.html?sort=3&o=48 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
55 Fargo Posted November 12, 2015 Report Share Posted November 12, 2015 This is what it looked like before and I could only get it here with the rpms way up. If I brought them down below 800 the needle bounced from 15 to 22. http://s202.photobucket.com/user/dschlick/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-10/D95B6BD5-ED83-4F6F-9002-590F56AFF56A_zpsdwug8utr.mp4.html?sort=3&o=48 Yup, that kinda leaking is definately valve related. I willwatch the video tomorrow morning, at work on nights, no You Tube or Photobucket allowed..... I have no idea why yours and mine does this slight bounce, either a valve or 2 not sealing 100% , possibly ignition related, I dunno. In the grand scheme of things it don't really matter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Coatney Posted November 12, 2015 Report Share Posted November 12, 2015 Keep in mind that a quiet (as in no ticking) engine is not always the best. Exhaust valves set a tad too tight will burn valves given extended running time. Safer to hear a slight tick than no tick at all. I once bought a early 50's Dodge truck that someone was attempting to drive from California to the east coast. The flathead engine ran great until about mid Missouri. No audible tick but a miss fire began. The owner continued to drive with the miss fire getting increasingly worse. Made it through Indiana and half way through Ohio where the engine was running on 5 cylinders all the time. He sold the truck to a U-Haul dealer and rented a truck for the remainder of the trip. I bought the truck from the dealer and drove it home in hopes I could make repairs. I pulled the head and found one exhaust valve burned so severely that the hardened seat was gone (burned up completely) and the block was destroyed beyond repair. Had the valves been set with a bit more clearance this would not have happened. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
55 Fargo Posted November 12, 2015 Report Share Posted November 12, 2015 Although the OP is now drwaing a hgher more stavble vacuum, and this was a result of adjusting the lifters, some or many were too loose, hopefuully he adjusted when hot, and will check them again ina heat cycle or 2. His new vacuum readings are good, but that slight bounce of the needle indicates somehthing is slightly amiss here, mine is the same. I have no intake or vacuum line leaks, leads me to believe, 1 or more vavles not sealing 100 %.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P15-D24 Posted November 12, 2015 Report Share Posted November 12, 2015 Keep in mind that a quiet (as in no ticking) engine is not always the best. Exhaust valves set a tad too tight will burn valves given extended running time. Safer to hear a slight tick than no tick at all. I once bought a early 50's Dodge truck that someone was attempting to drive from California to the east coast. The flathead engine ran great until about mid Missouri. No audible tick but a miss fire began. The owner continued to drive with the miss fire getting increasingly worse. Made it through Indiana and half way through Ohio where the engine was running on 5 cylinders all the time. He sold the truck to a U-Haul dealer and rented a truck for the remainder of the trip. I bought the truck from the dealer and drove it home in hopes I could make repairs. I pulled the head and found one exhaust valve burned so severely that the hardened seat was gone (burned up completely) and the block was destroyed beyond repair. Had the valves been set with a bit more clearance this would not have happened. This is a good tip to follow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John-T-53 Posted November 12, 2015 Report Share Posted November 12, 2015 It is interesting to note that the valve lash specs are different between passenger cars and trucks. I believe cars are .008 and .010 for intake and exhaust, respectively, while trucks are .010 and .014. Don't quote me on this - please check your factory shop manual for correct specs. I believe Chrysler set this delta in spec tolerances because trucks were lower geared and thus ran higher rpms, which necessitates a looser clearance (with more tickin' sound). If you change your final drive ratio to a taller combo, you may be able to tighten your valves up a bit if the tick gets to ya, with no mal effects.....but looser clearances will always yield more power. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John-T-53 Posted November 12, 2015 Report Share Posted November 12, 2015 This was my easiest experience adjusting valves...no wheel removal required, no burnt hands, no neck strain... 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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