blue p15 Posted October 5, 2015 Report Share Posted October 5, 2015 Hi guys. I have a problem that I am hoping someone can help with. I will give you as much information as I can so you can tell me what I am missing. My p15 was owned by my father, who lived in Ohio. When it was time for him to pass ownership of the car to me, I made arrangements for a transport company to pick it up. I made the trip from Florida to Ohio, so I was there when the car was driven onto the transport. When the car arrived in Florida, it was driven off the transport, and then a couple of miles to my house. I drove it around town a few times, and got it ready for a car show. I decided to take it on a “shake-down” cruise just to make sure everything was ok. It went about a block and a half, and then sputtered and died like it had run out of gas. I knew it had gas, because I had filled it up on one of my trips around town. I had some friends help me push it back to my driveway, and I put in a new fuel pump, fuel filter, points, condenser, rotor, cap and plugs. The car ran enough to get it to a show, but it ran really rough. I decided I needed to take it to a mechanic, because I was out of ideas. He said the bushings around the throttle plate shaft were really worn and the carburetor was sucking air. I sent the carburetor off to be rebuilt and was told that it was the wrong carburetor for the car. The rebuilder found a correct carburetor and sent it to me, and I took it to the mechanic for him to install. He was not able to get it started, so he checked everything and found that the coil had been installed wrong. Remember, the car had been running earlier. He replaced the coil, and the points and condenser, even though I had replaced the points and condenser and had only driven 15 miles or so. He told me the car was ready, so I went to pick it up. When I left the shop, it was running very smoothly. I drove a block and a half and it sputtered and died like it ran out of gas. Does this sound familiar? I got a guy to help me push it back to the shop and the mechanic started checking everything again. When he pulled the plugs, they were not wet. If he pulled a plug and laid it on the block, you could see the spark when the engine turned over, although I thought the spark looked anemic. He sprayed carb cleaner into the carburetor, thinking it would run a few seconds on it, but it wouldn’t. He ended up replacing the coil again, just to see if it would help, but it didn’t. At this point, he is as confused as I am. What are we missing? I apologize for the long post. Thanks in advance for any help you can give me. I would really like to take the car to some shows! Thanks Doug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Coatney Posted October 6, 2015 Report Share Posted October 6, 2015 Where in Ohio did your father live? Takes 3 things to make an engine run. Compression, fuel, and spark delivered at the right time. What is missing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue p15 Posted October 6, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 6, 2015 Don, he lived in North Baltimore - near Toledo. He lives here in Florida with us now. As far as what is missing, I don't know, because it ran - "for a block and a half"!:-) So it had everything it needed for that amount of time! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Coatney Posted October 6, 2015 Report Share Posted October 6, 2015 Is the carburetor full of gas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P15-D24 Posted October 6, 2015 Report Share Posted October 6, 2015 To follow up on Don's question, when you quickly open the throttle do you see a stream of gas shooting down in the carb. If not crank the engine for 15-20 seconds, then remove the 4 screws holding the top of the carb. Pull the lid up enough to see if the fuel bowl is full. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue p15 Posted October 6, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 6, 2015 I will check the carb tomorrow. But wouldn't it run with carb cleaner sprayed into it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwaggonercpa Posted October 6, 2015 Report Share Posted October 6, 2015 Rust or other blockage in you gas tank? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonaldSmith Posted October 6, 2015 Report Share Posted October 6, 2015 Is this the old problem of a non-vented gas cap? Easy enough to check. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue p15 Posted October 6, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 6, 2015 gwaggonercpa, the tank was replaced a couple of years ago. There could be some rust in the lines. I would think it would still run on the carb cleaner, though. I will check out the lines. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue p15 Posted October 6, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 6, 2015 DonaldSmith, I don't think it has a vented cap. That is a great idea. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
55 Fargo Posted October 6, 2015 Report Share Posted October 6, 2015 (edited) As mentioned above, fuel, ignition and compression = fire. Did this mechanic do a compression test? Test fuel pump? Did he check carb float bowl to see if there was fuel sitting in there? The plugs were dry, so sounds like possibly no fuel delivery, so what is stopping it? Take off the gas cap if it is non vented, and either get a vented or drill a tiny hole through it. Your replacement gas tank, does it have a seperate venting line instead. Try priming the carb with gasoline, and see if it fires to life. The reversed coil, that shouldn't be that bad, shortens coil life perhaps, but have run a flathead with coil hooked up wrong once for a few years. The tiny wire inside of the coil, could this be shorting out, is sometimes an issue with these old distributors. These engines are quite simple in design and operation, and you need to do a process of elimination to determine the root cause, rather than going after every all at once and becoming frustrated and chasing your tail. So a systematic approach, to find the issue, good luck and keep this thread going until you resolve this issue, as it may help another flattie owner in the future. One last ?, is the car mad at you, should your Dad be driving her.......... Edited October 6, 2015 by Fargos-Go-Far 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plymouthy Adams Posted October 6, 2015 Report Share Posted October 6, 2015 (edited) seems to me it is time to take it back to the mechanic that took your good money and called the job done to begin with....perhaps you should carry to the shop your repair manual for the car so they can have the correct specifications and procedures for setting/aligning..you do own a manual right? Edited October 6, 2015 by Plymouthy Adams Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue p15 Posted October 6, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 6, 2015 Plymouthy, he has a copy of my repair manual! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue p15 Posted October 6, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 6, 2015 (edited) One last ?, is the car mad at you, should your Dad be driving her.......... Fargos - come to think of it, the car has not run right for most of the time I have owned it! Don't tell my Dad that, though. We are trying to wean him off of the driving! (he's 90). :-) Edited October 6, 2015 by blue p15 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plymouthy Adams Posted October 6, 2015 Report Share Posted October 6, 2015 it still goes back to the one thing...he repaired your car..took your money, called it done and you are no better off for your efforts..are you saying that the man should be paid, let off the hood for his lack of ability to repair you vehicle, has he offered you your money back for his failed efforts. Are you asking now for possible fixes that may have been over looked by your professional in order to attempt to repair this yourself or you going to carry gained information to the man at the shop and tell him his job..I see that going over well. Just an objective look over the shoulder of a venture gone sour. I do feel your pain and I see this daily regardless if the car is old or new when carried even to a dealership for warranty work. You have been given a number of good cause and effect replies that bares checking out and a reply back to the forum as to if fix or fail so other avenues can be explored... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
young Posted October 6, 2015 Report Share Posted October 6, 2015 to plymouthy adams this is the mechanic that "took" his good money and called the job done.before you judge you need to hear the hole story.when the car came in yes it was driven in to my shop and while we were talking the car stalled and would not restart so we pushed it into the shop the owner said it would restart after it completely cooled down .the next day i went to start it and all it would do is spin over and once and awhile kick but not start.i checked for spark and fuel and it had both but would not start.the plugs would come out dry after trying to start it and when looking down the carb and moving the throttle it was spraying fuel down into the intake but no start and plugs are dry.tried to start it by spraying carb cleaner into the carb and still no start.pulled a spark plug and checked for spark out of the spark plug and it was good.while trying to start the car i seen fuel leaking from the throttle shaft and running down the intake/exhaust manifolds so i told him the carb needed to be replaced.i told him the system for the points was hooked up as if it was a negative ground when i was installing a coil and the customer asked me to install new points and condenser so at his request i did.yes this car is as simple as it gets. to let you all know i am a ase master tech with over 28 years on the job for a living and have done everything from basic repairs to building full on race cars from the ground up.yes i do know what i am doing. so as i said we can rule out alot of problems here with one thing that i said before there is fuel spraying out of the carb when the throttle is moved so it has fuel going to the carb and the float bowl is being filled with fuel so the fuel pump and lines are good and if it was the gas cap it would restart after sitting off for awhile. the car started after i replaced the carb,points and the coil with the wires hooked up right.i can feel a vacuum pulse at the carb when cranking the motor. with everything i have done to this car which is more than i have stated here i have only charged the customer for 2 hours of labor which i think is more than far as i have not charged for diag time. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharps40 Posted October 6, 2015 Report Share Posted October 6, 2015 (edited) Bravo. Excellent response. All too easy to slam dunk folks when the word ain't all in. Good to hear the "Rest of the Story" for once, but too bad it had to be your first post. Edited October 6, 2015 by Sharps40 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plymouthy Adams Posted October 6, 2015 Report Share Posted October 6, 2015 between his report and yours I find a many things amiss ASE or not and yes...years ago when young I was ASE qualified myself as a mechanic for Ford/Lincoln/Mercury dealership...of all I have read now of your and his post....I can only say I commend you for not overcharging the man for your attempts. And regardless of polarity of the coil in this instance and at the RPM you driving the flattie..only thing you got was a good feeling for your efforts it would and will perform just as well on any given street, but yes it is good to have it as it should be. Substitution of parts as seems to be the case in this Easter egg hunt is sometimes effective but, I still prefer proper diagnostic and testing techniques. Sorry not to inflame anyone but convince me of your findings not just your suspicions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Coatney Posted October 6, 2015 Report Share Posted October 6, 2015 So is this problem resolved and the engine running correctly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
young Posted October 6, 2015 Report Share Posted October 6, 2015 Also to make sure everyone knows the carb was received from a carb shop rebuilt so I really dont want to take it apart to check the float as I dont want to hurt the warranty on this carb.Yes I am going to check the compression and also check the distributor system in my hand so I can make sure the cam in it is not worn down and causing weak spark at times and make sure nothing is grounding out in there also.When I do find this problem I will let you all know what is the cause of this problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plymouthy Adams Posted October 6, 2015 Report Share Posted October 6, 2015 I understand the very dilemma concerning the carb...the owner will have to make the call one way or the other on that..but often as you well know...things mechanical can and will go wrong...not everything performs out of the box so to speak..again..not criticizing you in any manner...just be suspect of all things and prove them right or wrong as you go along.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
young Posted October 6, 2015 Report Share Posted October 6, 2015 Plymounthy Adams it is so easy to sit there and post what you think may be the problem with out seeing the vehicle try to run and post what you think the problem is.So dont talk people down on what or how they get to fix the problem because you dont have the hole story on what has been done and checked on the car posted here.If you want to talk down about what I have done here learn what all I have done to the car first hand before you do and learn my abilities with working on cars as I have repaired and found many problems that the dealers could not fix,I have many shops in town that send me or call me when they cant fix a car and I dont like throwing parts at a car to see what sticks and fixes a car but when you have fuel and spark and the car ran and idled smooth about 2 hours before it let my shop when it would not start and run before it had the parts replaced here the first thing you should think of is maybe a part that was just installed may have went bad and the easiest part to change was the coil and if the spark was a little weak it should only be the coil went bad,so that was the only part I tried and if it started I was going to look at what caused the new coil to go bad.So again learn its always easier to knock someone down from a distance to make yourself look better and someone who has all the answers after the fact. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
young Posted October 6, 2015 Report Share Posted October 6, 2015 That is what I am doing and yes everything can be bad or weak out of the box I see this alot more the last few years with doing this for a living day in and day out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
young Posted October 6, 2015 Report Share Posted October 6, 2015 I dont want to call the carb shop and say their carb is bad because if it was it should try and start with carb cleaner,it keeps sending my back to spark but the plugs always come out dry and that sends me back to the carb,can you say dog chasing the tail,but I will catch the tail soon,i dont give up.The problem will be found and fixed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue p15 Posted October 6, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 6, 2015 So is this problem resolved and the engine running correctly? We're still working on it, Don. I will be sure to post when my mechanic finds the solution. I'm sure everyone on here will be glad to know what the problem was! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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