Plymouthy Adams Posted July 9, 2015 Report Share Posted July 9, 2015 I have been the Summit route for the 51 Suburban and their advertised aluminum radiator that is a bolt in...yeah..if you don't intend to connect the hoses or lower the hood..pefect fit...not sure what they were looking at when they made that call to fit.. Next step was just do it like I should have in the first place....buy as per my measurements.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NiftyFifty Posted July 9, 2015 Report Share Posted July 9, 2015 I'm not breaking things, it's a 65 year old truck, and it has all sorts of new, original and custom parts wrapped around it, anyone that thinks they can treat these like a new vehicle that won't have any problems will be sadly mistaken. It's great to say "crap happens, just get back up and dust yourself off" but you have a lot less money and time invested in your truck then I do on mine so far, and that wears thin when things happen all in a row, but when you get into a complete rebuild and start adding things you will soon see that it doesn't always go as planned. If it was a 55-57 Chevy I'm sure it would have been 1/2 the hassle....just open the catalogue and order away for direct fit parts. I think you need to shop some different rad shops, and try out of the city....I was quoted about $500-600 for a new built rad for my truck in Brandon back when my original honeycomb disintegrated. The tanks are either good or their not, they don't really rot like the core, and once their dipped and cleaned up and checked for any holes, they can be painted up again and have a whole new life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
55 Fargo Posted July 9, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 9, 2015 I'm not breaking things, it's a 65 year old truck, and it has all sorts of new, original and custom parts wrapped around it, anyone that thinks they can treat these like a new vehicle that won't have any problems will be sadly mistaken. It's great to say "crap happens, just get back up and dust yourself off" but you have a lot less money and time invested in your truck then I do on mine so far, and that wears thin when things happen all in a row, but when you get into a complete rebuild and start adding things you will soon see that it doesn't always go as planned. If it was a 55-57 Chevy I'm sure it would have been 1/2 the hassle....just open the catalogue and order away for direct fit parts. I think you need to shop some different rad shops, and try out of the city....I was quoted about $500-600 for a new built rad for my truck in Brandon back when my original honeycomb disintegrated. The tanks are either good or their not, they don't really rot like the core, and once their dipped and cleaned up and checked for any holes, they can be painted up again and have a whole new life. only kidding on you "breaking things", just a fact of life driving old tin. I hear you on some of the cookie cutter parts for other brands, no such luck with our trucks, if it were I would have had a brand new direct $200 rad already installed. I will look at the possibility of a recore, 1 reputable old shop did quote $469, given the price of copper/brass, that doesn't sound so bad..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobacuda Posted July 9, 2015 Report Share Posted July 9, 2015 Why be afraid of setting a deadline to finish your project? Heck, I like deadlines so much on my truck I've blown by 4 deadlines and am currently closing in on my 5th... All kidding aside, every deadline I have set for my truck has generated derisive laughter from my family (not to mention the engine or body men). My wife keeps reminding me that its my hobby, not my job. The "getting there" should be as interesting as "being there." 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1950 Special Deluxe Posted July 9, 2015 Report Share Posted July 9, 2015 What is the definition of finished? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plymouthy Adams Posted July 9, 2015 Report Share Posted July 9, 2015 (edited) depends on the person..some are finished if the vehicle rolls under its own power regardless of any other safety, electrical or cosmetic defect that require attention..most say finished when they reached the goal they set for the vehicle...some have a higher bar that others... Edited July 9, 2015 by Plymouthy Adams Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Balazs Posted July 9, 2015 Report Share Posted July 9, 2015 (edited) If it helps you any....a recore here in SoCal is at least $500. There have been alloy truck specific radiators listed on Ebay for under $400 that included a built in cooler for an automatic. If I had it to do all over again I would pop for an alloy one. If nothing else they just look so cool. Either way this topic has prompted me to design a stone guard to fit behind the grill. The ounce of prevention is surely better than doing nothing. It is interesting to look through all the postings on these cooling systems. Even though they are fairly simple it seems like people have had a lot of problems. Not sure how much of it is age related vs not taking the time to understand how it really works. The only real problem I have had has been getting all the rust and crap out of the water jackets. That took several treatments before it was all cleared out. These engines just have a lot of spots for the stuff to collect in. It's all good now though. But I really had to go at it diligently. I just wonder how many others are driving around thinking the water jackets are clear.....when in fact there is still a load of junk there? Jeff . . . .. Edited July 9, 2015 by Jeff Balazs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phntm48 Posted July 9, 2015 Report Share Posted July 9, 2015 What is the definition of finished? When I die, ALL my projects will be finished.............At least as far as I am concerned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NiftyFifty Posted July 9, 2015 Report Share Posted July 9, 2015 I thought I had my 251 block pretty darn clean and water flowing well with the garden hose, but when I took it in for machine work they said it still had mouse nests in it in spots and a few jackets plugged right off...I never pulled the distb tube and that's where it was all hiding. It spent a day or so in their dunk tank, so I think I started pretty clean...new heater core as well and rad flushed...but it's still a bit dirty when you drain the coolant. This head gasket job just got it another 6-7 litres of new coolant, so it's good for a couple years before its next flush. If it helps you any....a recore here in SoCal is at least $500. There have been alloy truck specific radiators listed on Ebay for under $400 that included a built in cooler for an automatic. If I had it to do all over again I would pop for an alloy one. If nothing else they just look so cool. Either way this topic has prompted me to design a stone guard to fit behind the grill. The ounce of prevention is surely better than doing nothing. It is interesting to look through all the postings on these cooling systems. Even though they are fairly simple it seems like people have had a lot of problems. Not sure how much of it is age related vs not taking the time to understand how it really works. The only real problem I have had has been getting all the rust and crap out of the water jackets. That took several treatments before it was all cleared out. These engines just have a lot of spots for the stuff to collect in. It's all good now though. But I really had to go at it diligently. I just wonder how many others are driving around thinking the water jackets are clear.....when in fact there is still a load of junk there? Jeff . . . .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Balazs Posted July 9, 2015 Report Share Posted July 9, 2015 I thought I had my 251 block pretty darn clean and water flowing well with the garden hose, but when I took it in for machine work they said it still had mouse nests in it in spots and a few jackets plugged right off...I never pulled the distb tube and that's where it was all hiding. It spent a day or so in their dunk tank, so I think I started pretty clean...new heater core as well and rad flushed...but it's still a bit dirty when you drain the coolant. This head gasket job just got it another 6-7 litres of new coolant, so it's good for a couple years before its next flush. Well I had the head off the welch plugs out and pulled what was left of my WDT out. Then I spent quite a bit of time fishing stuff out of the jackets and scraping them. Then it got flushed at least 3 times with a pressure washer. I thought I had it pretty darn clean. What a laugh. After several more flush sessions.....I can tell you that there was a ton of stuff caked in the engine that only shifted after going through many ...many heat cycles. I would be willing to bet that lots of these engines are harboring similar stuff. Tanked or not tanked. I hope you finally put a thermostat back in that engine of yours. Uneven coolant temps in the block might explain the head gasket failure. Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NiftyFifty Posted July 9, 2015 Report Share Posted July 9, 2015 Nope, I refuse to use one, I have no heating issues, the engine warms up nicely, stays at around 190 all the time, if I beat it on the highway it will just creep over 200 at 28 Celsius, but nothing serious. I think my issue was a big jump in timing...I was messing around with a lot of advance and i may have increased my cylinder pressure too much, I have backed that down a bit, and also used copper gasket spray this time. I went dry last time and the gasket looked perfect when I removed it, but it also slid off the cylinder block like nothing, so I think it was leaking there into #3. That motor has been together for 4 years running just great, even this spring until I moved the timing last week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Balazs Posted July 10, 2015 Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 I think most of this type of engine will run at near normal gauge temps without a thermostat in place. That is if the mixture and timing are close to correct and the cooling system is in decent shape.....and you are not putting a heavy load on it. But that isn't really why a thermostat was employed in the design. It is there to insure that the block comes up to and maintains an even operating temperature. Without one in place there is absolutely no way to control this and there will certainly be cool zones and hot spots within the block. Sure a freshly rebuilt engine will tolerate a certain amount of this before it starts showing signs of problems. But why would you want to put this to the test? Thermostats are easy to test and are generally very trouble free. About the only problems you might see with one is either blockage by foreign material or corrosion in the case of an old component. It's your truck so do what you want. But it should be made clear to all that this practice is outside of the norm and that there are extra risks associated with it. Jeff 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NiftyFifty Posted July 10, 2015 Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 Both trucks had no T stat in them, and very common to run without on vehicles that were only run in the summer. I've checked with a laser thermometer numerous times, and the temps are very steady and close throughout. The t stat may slow down the movement of the coolant, but once it's open in the summer, it never closes again until the truck sits for an hour or more. If you ran a 190 you might get opening and closing on a cool day or night on the highway, but the truck runs at a very nice 175/180 on those days and it's even as well. I'm not worried about it, having one roasted a head gasket by it not opening and creating a pocket of air...so if you do use one, I advice a 1/8" hole drilled in it to minimize that risk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
55 Fargo Posted July 10, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 Both trucks had no T stat in them, and very common to run without on vehicles that were only run in the summer. I've checked with a laser thermometer numerous times, and the temps are very steady and close throughout. The t stat may slow down the movement of the coolant, but once it's open in the summer, it never closes again until the truck sits for an hour or more. If you ran a 190 you might get opening and closing on a cool day or night on the highway, but the truck runs at a very nice 175/180 on those days and it's even as well. I'm not worried about it, having one roasted a head gasket by it not opening and creating a pocket of air...so if you do use one, I advice a 1/8" hole drilled in it to minimize that risk Interesting, in my experience, have not come across any flattie engine without a t/stat, maybe your experience has been otherwise. My truck engine runs a nice 165-175, on 80-90 degree days it will generally hold at 180 tops, unless idling in traffic or something. I run a 160 t/stat with 50/50 coolant..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NiftyFifty Posted July 10, 2015 Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 I ran a but cooler before, but my power steering pump is a bit more draw on the engine, and my dual electric fan probably blocks a bit of air on the highway, but my gauge is also a bit off from what the laser says...about 5-8 degrees. Never buy Omega gauges!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Balazs Posted July 10, 2015 Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 So did you change the timing to try and compensate for the power used by the power steering pump you added? I would think that you would have to have it set pretty far off the mark to cause a head gasket failure. I run a 180 thermostat and have a functioning PCV system. Temps stay pretty much on the money as read by the gauge and an IR gun. As I have said I did have some issues with debris collecting at the thermostat but the last series of flushes got the remainder of that out. I am not sure if it makes any difference but I have a later C series 230 with a straight inlet thermostat housing in my truck. If I ever have any future cooling issues this housing will be the first thing I open up and investigate. I was pretty shocked at the amount of debris I found in it after all the work I had done to get this system back up to snuff. Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NiftyFifty Posted July 10, 2015 Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 Ya, I changed my oil pump and my points and I felt things wernt quite right and I was down on power, I was pretty far ahead, backed it off yesterday, but needs another bump up... Just a bit of a struggle to get 70mph now, that pump eats about 10+ horsepower and that's a lot to take off 100 hp. Mine is the plain straight housing, I'd like to find a new replacement, mine was pretty corroded inside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Balazs Posted July 10, 2015 Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 Sure 10% is a lot to give up. You are almost certain to notice that in this sort of application. I am really glad mine steers well. Got lucky there I wonder if it is the points ? When I still had them in my truck I found that they started deteriorating fairly quickly. I tried several different sets and they all showed signs of metal transfer in just a few hours running time. Each time I would check and re gap them they would be 2-3 thousandths off from where I had set them. I've have never had an ongoing thing like this with points before this truck. In the end I ditched them and installed an ignitor which has been faultless. Jeff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NiftyFifty Posted July 10, 2015 Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 (edited) Ya, my dwell can't be set properly right now, I'm sure my dist bushing is worn out..I have it as close as I can make it, but it's shifting like 10 deg from idle to rev. I'm going to build a new one this winter with the pertronix igniter....not a fan of points. I also had the flatbed before which weighed only 1/2 of what the box does....so I have a few things going against me this year As for steering.... I LOVE my power steering....every parking lot is a joy now....no more strong arming to get in and out of spots. Works very well, and makes the truck more enjoyable around town. Edited July 10, 2015 by 4mula-dlx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Balazs Posted July 11, 2015 Report Share Posted July 11, 2015 I am pretty certain you will like the igniter. It has been a fit and forget mod. Very quick starts and stabil running. IMO one of the better upgrades out there. I thought about power steering as this is my only vehicle. But honestly this one isn't bad at all. Especially when backing out of spots. It actually turns tighter than my wifes' Honda. And I think I would rather have all the "surplus" power. I have tried to be very careful with the modifications to my truck. Disc brakes and good radials all around were a no brainer. Ditto on the 3.55 ratio rear end. The same is true with the alternator, full time electric fuel pump and upgraded lighting. These things make it nice and much safer without altering the vintage driving experience too much. I just feel that at some point in a full course of modifications the core of what it started off as can get lost. And at that point I might as well just buy something new.....which doesn't interest me at all. Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
55 Fargo Posted July 12, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 12, 2015 Interesting thoughts on the t/stat, I will stick with mine, the very least would mabe use a flow restictor to slow the flow a bit. Anyway, I will ask this ? one more time. Does anyone have pics of a B series or C series truck with an aftermarket Champion radiator installed? If so please post wioth pics... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
55 Fargo Posted September 1, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 1, 2015 After over 3 months, have sourced a dcent used 3 row OEM stock rad for my Canadian built Fargo truck. I will clean i up, and install, it does not leak, core is in reral decent shape. This cost juist over $100 USD.... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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