Steering box rebuild?

[uglysteve]

I've got a 48 plymouth and my steering has quite a bit of play. I want to get steering nice and tight again and I'm wondering if there is a rebuild kit available or where to send it to be rebuilt.

I remember seeing an article in a magazine, maybe rod & custom last year about a shop in southern IL that rebuilds them. I even got a quote from them and have since lost the contact info and can't find the magazine.

Can anyone help? I don't really want to do the cavalier rack swap.

Thanks!!

[deathbound]

Berbaum sells a steering box kit, but you won't know what you need til you open it up....may need a sector shaft, which isn't included in the kit, but may be found on ebay. Check ALL the components of your steering...rod ends/tie rods included.

http://www.oldmoparts.com/parts-steering.aspx

 

Though not local to you, I've heard good things about this place (no affiliation):

CJ Auto

5909 Firestone Blvd, South Gate, CA 90280

(562) 806-6464

[Andydodge]

Apart from wear in the steering box also check the rubber isolators between the box and chassis and the outside plate and chassis..............oil and grease make them very spongy and new isolators appear on ebay occasionally and are worth getting, even if the worm & sector aren't replaced its worth renewing the 2 bearings and the pitman shaft seal ........andyd

[Bingster]

You know, every time I hear the name Bernbaum my mind says "Don't risk it."  I came into this hobby and forum with no knowledge of him/them.  I hear somebody's bought the business.  But it's been on this site where I got that impression about their parts. I ordered one of his catalogs early on, buy got trained to look elsewhere. 

 

So would all of you not hesitate to buy a part there, rubber or otherwise?

[Dave72dt]

I've come to the conclusion that all manufacturers have some bad products in the lines and all have some good ones. The difficulty is finding out which of their products WILL fit correctly versus those that almost or do not fit. Example: I've heard recommendation to use Clesters for rubber. I tried them on my last Ford project, 3 pieces. 1 ok, 1 almost and 1 sitting on the "maybe I can use it on something else someday" shelf. Ordered the last one from a different company, had the profile correct, softness correct and it fit perfectly. Maybe Clesters is right for Mopar or for a particular model and year to receive that prior recommendation. Dennis Carpenter, another big name for Ford rubber, doesn't get his 100 percent either and he claims to extrude rubber in house. I'm sure Bernbaums has parts that are correct and I'm sure there's some that aren't quite.

[busycoupe]

When I bought my 48 Dodge the steering was very loose.  I was able to take a lot of play out of the steering box with the adjuster screw on top of the box.  The procedure is described well in the shop manual.  As I remember, you don't want to sock the adjuster down tight, there should be a certain amount of play. 

[Seaside Pete]

I have bought quite a lot of stuff from Andy b's and have been pleased, just replaced my entire braking system Master cyl, wheel cyl's, flexi's, shoes etc all from Andy b's with no problem. I have also bought the steering box kit from there but not fitted it yet, will let you know how I get on.

 

Pete

[meadowbrook]

Bernbaum has been mostly ok with me with a few horrible parts. But they were very willing to take returns and give full refunds, no arguments. I have had that experience with points and turn signal flasher.

[meadowbrook]

But back to the steering. My D34 came with a loose steering but I carefully adjusted it and now it is pretty darn near perfect. The only issue is that it is a beast to turn with the car not moving, but excellent once I am moving with no tight spots, no roughness and little friction, it self returns to the straight ahead position after cornering beautifully.

[Andydodge]

I have been playing with mopars since 1969, my 1940 Dodge since 1973.......back then it was VERY hard to find anyone dealing in old parts from over here in Oz......in the early 80's I came across Andy Bernbaums mentioned in a US magazine, more than likely a hot rod mag as that is what I am, however he was the only place I knew of that actually mentioned NOS and repo'd mopar bits.......I rang him and ordered a few things and to be honest have never been screwed around in over 35yrs of doing business...........I don't doubt that Andy could have had a slightly gruff bedside manner, however I always tried him first and even with the advent of the internet I still bought the majority of what I needed from AB's which has included front end, steering, trans and rubber body parts........I have not needed anything since AB sold the business to the new guy but I wish him well and hope the business thrives............as for other places.....well, I have dealt with Steele Rubber also over the yrs primarily for 51 Chev bits when I had one and they were very good, however my only mopar dealing was not good, I ordered a cowl vent seal and they sent one that had the right overall shape but completely wrong profile and after a few phone calls I wouldn't deal with Steele ever again, so even the "best" can get it wrong.............my 2.5 Oz cents worth.......regards......andyd   

[uglysteve]

Ok cool, so looks like my best bet is to try adjusting it first and then look into Bernbaums. Where would be a good place to look for the shop manual? Or can someone maybe scan the pages with the adjustment process and send that to me? I never bought one just because I have a whole different drive train and brake system and everything so I didn't see the point.

I did just replace my tie rod ends and everything maybe a month ago so I know all that stuff is nice and tight. The steering feels smooth, I have maybe 3 inches of play in the wheel.

Thanks for the help guys!

Edited March 26, 2015 by uglysteve

[uglysteve]

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Edited March 26, 2015 by uglysteve

[austinsailor]

You probably need to check the manual first, but unlike the trucks, I think your's requires removing shims. The adjuster just keeps the sector tight against the shims once you have the right amount of them for the play in the box.

 

If you are a lucky guy, your box may still have good seals, oil  in it and good parts and need mainly adjustsing. If it's been run dry (many have) or filled with chassis grease (most of the rest have) it very likely will need a new worm and secotor to be top knotch. But - if you're a lucky guy, like I was on one pickup box that still had oil, it adjusted up just fine. Even though the truck was worn out (really worn out) and the box had half a turn play when I got it.  

 

Find out what you're dealing with before you send it to someone who may not know much more than you. My first one was sent out, it came back after an expensive rebuild full of - you guessed it - chassis grease.

[Desotodav]

... Find out what you're dealing with before you send it to someone who may not know much more than you. My first one was sent out, it came back after an expensive rebuild full of - you guessed it - chassis grease.

 

It is interesting that you say that Gene.

 

At the risk of starting a forum argument - I was chatting to a fella here in Oz a few weeks back who reckons that we have more issues (than our left-hand drive friends) with our old MOPAR steering boxes here in Oz as they are located on the right side of the vehicle very close to the exhaust. He is of the opinion that normal oils used in steering boxes here just won't cut it as they are cooked by exhaust heat, so he uses something he called self-leveling grease... http://www.penriteoil.com.au/products.php?id_categ=14&id_products=90. He is a well educated fella when it comes to old cars so I have no cause to doubt his theory, and it does actually sound quite logical to me. Could it be that there are now better lubricating products out there for steering boxes?

Edited March 27, 2015 by Desotodav

[ptwothree]

how about using a synthetic gear oil....80 or 90 wt.  Should work fine around all that heat.....

[Andydodge]

Penrite here in Oz do a product called Steering Box Lube made specifically for older non rack & pinion steering boxes...........that's what I put in the 41 Plymouth steering box, seemed to help..........andyd

[austinsailor]

Yes, there seems to be few things that start as many disagreements as what to put in your steering box!

 

I'm sure there are many good choices, but whatever it is must flow, not be stiff. Hadn't thought about the right hand drive/exhaust problem, but you guys have yet another thing to deal with.

 

I'm curious - is your box the same as left hand drive? I would assume that at least the casting has to be different, probably a mirror image, but are the guts the same or is there a different set of gears, etc for them?

 

My interest is, I'm trying to locate something that has the larger worm gear (2 3/4" long) in a left hand scew as a doner for my '36 Desoto Airflow. I haven't found one yet in our US cars/trucks, but maybe the right hand drive world has such a thing.

[Andydodge]

Austin, whilst it maybe possible for the RHD steering box to get a little warm because the exhaust is there I'd be surprised if its such an issue........the fuel and oil pumps also live there and they would also have issues.............but as far as I am c oncerned heat is not so much the issue as the pitman shaft seal going kaput and allowing the lubricant to run out.....as for the shape of the box, they are a mirror image of the LHD ones, down to the worm & roller being identical except twisting the opposite way........making spares very hard to come by............andyd 

[austinsailor]

There are basically 4 worm gears. 2 1/4" long and 2 3/4" long, right and left had thread. My 36 Desoto Airflow uses the larger 2 3/4" left hand worm gear, which seems to be the rarest.  The bigger ones are generally used in the bigger cars, maybe Chrysler and Desoto, and 7 passenger over many years, probably early 30's to 50 or later. I'm wondering if any OZ car would have this. Would anyone down under have a worm gear of this size and left hand thread? Might be the only way I'll ever get my box back to new. I can graft the worm to my shaft if I find one. I don't care what it came from if it's the longer one in left hand thread.

 

By the way, I completely agree with you on the seal issue, I've preached it here before. All the talk of using stiffer grease because a $5 seal leaks drives me nuts!

[Dodgeb4ya]

See post #14......A great answer!

 

NLGI 00 and 0 grease will work just fine in old steering boxes. Flows like thick molasses.

 

#2 and 3 are regular chassis type grease and will not flow around the worm and sector causing severe gear damage from lack of lubrication.

[51cambridge]

Stp? Anyone try it,maybe some grease first, then top off with Stp.