desoto1939 Posted January 12, 2015 Report Posted January 12, 2015 I am thinking about converting my 1939 Desoto that has the 6v prefoused bulbs over to the 6v halogen bulb system. Mac's Model t Has supply house has the convertion kits for around $45. HAs anyone that has the old style reflector system converted to these type of bulbs and did you have any issues? I do know that I would have to drill out my refelector to accept the 1 inch home for the bulbs. I do have an extra set so I would also beable to retain the originals if and when the car is sold at sometime inthe future. Also did you have to convert to using a 6v alternator. Rich HArtung Desoto1939@aol.com Quote
Don Coatney Posted January 12, 2015 Report Posted January 12, 2015 Interesting concept. What is the wattage of the replacement bulbs and the amp load? Are the bulbs polarity sensitive? Quote
casper50 Posted January 12, 2015 Report Posted January 12, 2015 I think I'm going to use these. http://www.ebay.com/itm/161248014609?_trksid=p2060778.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT Quote
martybose Posted January 12, 2015 Report Posted January 12, 2015 It was a long time ago, but when I converted to 6V halogens the bulbs were 55W, while the originals bulbs were 30W. Consequently the amperage draw was almost double, and I quickly ran into overheating headlight switch and dimmer switch. The solution was a set of headlight relays with larger wiring to the headlights. Marty 1 Quote
desoto1939 Posted January 12, 2015 Author Report Posted January 12, 2015 (edited) Interesting concept. What is the wattage of the replacement bulbs and the amp load? Are the bulbs polarity sensitive? Don: I currently do not know the answer to your question. I know they are lsited under the Model T section at Mac's. I will try to get sdome more info on these. Also since I have headlight reflectors similar to what what used on the 39 Plymouth but might are longer I can not use the sealed beam style that Casper50 is thinking of using. 1939 Was the last year to use bulbs and in 40 they went to sealed beams and the round headlight bulbs. From Looking at 6v positive ground 1 wire alternators they state that when using halogen bulbs that you shoudl convert to the Alt So the conversion would cost around $150 for the alt, 45-50 for the bulbs and drilling out the reflectors. So I would have around $200 for some better lighting as they state but no guarantee. I have seen some ownere convert the bucket to using the sealed beams but I would be more concerned that you would have two different light patterns being used. One pattern on the sealed beam and then another pattern of the original headlight lens. Also with the sealed beam as from above there is another issue. On the 39 Desoto/Dodge/Chrysler they use a 2331 bulb and the bulb moves from a right to left for the low to high beam affect where as most sealed beams that are a single light move in a more up/down fashion. the 2330 Do not think this might not be an issue if any but that is how my headlights work with the original equipment. I currently have a dula 6v headlight relay on my 39 to help with the draw and a 10g wire from the battery connection which is ontop of my statrt that has the footpush floorboard starter switch. I use 14 gage wire from the relay out othe the headlight block and foot dimmer switch. would you suggest converting to 12 or 10 gage wires for the halogens from the relay? Rich HArtung Desoto1939@aol.com Edited January 12, 2015 by desoto1939 Quote
casper50 Posted January 12, 2015 Report Posted January 12, 2015 (edited) Rich I bought my alternator from this guy for $47 + shipping. I did have to buy the wide pulley from him also for $15. http://www.ebay.com/itm/6-VOLT-ONE-WIRE-POSITIVE-GROUND-ALTERNATOR-/131400218211?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item1e98103663 Edited January 12, 2015 by casper50 Quote
Plymouthy Adams Posted January 12, 2015 Report Posted January 12, 2015 his 39 I think may be using the not so standard headlight..possibily the rectangular model..not like that of our today's parabolic reflector 7 inch round jobber-do....thus his particular need for the retro kit... Quote
casper50 Posted January 12, 2015 Report Posted January 12, 2015 Yep. But at $150 for the alt instead of $47 he could save a bunch if he needs to change the gen for an alt. Quote
LAKOTA169 Posted January 12, 2015 Report Posted January 12, 2015 I installed halogen headlights in my '37. It had already been converted to seal beam before I got the car. I got the Wagner halogens from Rock Auto for less than $19 for the pair including shipping. A little over $5 each. Quote
Plymouthy Adams Posted January 12, 2015 Report Posted January 12, 2015 (edited) as the bulbs are rated in wattage ..and the bulbs are the same watt rating old as replacement....so if 55 watts are old and 55 are the new...(you can get these H4 designs in various rating) then there is no change in power requirements... http://www.ebay.com/itm/6-VOLT-HALOGEN-HEADLIGHT-HEADLAMP-CLEAR-GLASS-LIGHT-LAMP-BULBS-35-35W-PAIR-H4-6V/330992929218?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20131003132420%26meid%3D8f43802f5465438d890e8357479da6ad%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D161248014609&rt=nc Edited January 12, 2015 by Plymouthy Adams Quote
TodFitch Posted January 12, 2015 Report Posted January 12, 2015 Easiest conversion is to simply plug in halogen bulbs that fit the original sockets. The ones I have are from Classic and Vintage Bulbs in Australia. I got them direct but I understand that they later got a U.S. distributor you have to go through now who basically doubles the price. I needed bayonet style bulbs but they also carry the pre-focused base bulbs that later 1930s cars use. As pointed out earlier in this thread, watts is watts and for the same voltage if you raise the wattage you raise the current. And the wiring in your system was originally designed for a relatively low wattage. If you go with higher wattage bulbs you will have to make modifications. I documented my experience at http://www.ply33.com/Repair/lights Quote
greg g Posted January 12, 2015 Report Posted January 12, 2015 candle power is 29 low and 39 high. Wattage is 25 low beam. I would imagine 30 35 for high beam. In your situation I would ask myself how much night driving am I going to do. Is it worth the expense, the work, and the chance of messing up a irreplaceable reflector for a bit more light? Have you looked for upgraded bulbs through motorcycle parts soruces? Have you given any thought to mounting a couple of auxiliary lamps, either fog or driving to address your situation with out modifying your current lamps? The other problem is that the element location of the halogen lights may provide a brighter light but because your lenses are no longer prefocused for the new light maybe a less effective beam pattern. http://www.jpcycles.com/motorcycle-bulbs/6-volt http://www.jpcycles.com/search/search?N=0&Ntt=6v%20driving%20light&Ntk=All http://www.jpcycles.com/product/3800510 Quote
desoto1939 Posted January 13, 2015 Author Report Posted January 13, 2015 (edited) Thanks for everyones input greatly appreciated. On the 39 Desoto we had the old style rectangular headlights that were built into the fender. On the 38 and back model they used the round headlight glass and reflectors. I do have the higher rate candlepower prefocused bulb the 2550 bulbs instead of the original lower brightness. I have install sealed beam driving lights on the car helps some but the biggest issue when driving at night is that I get washed out and its hard to see the road. I did purchase the prefoused halogen bulbs that were mention but have not installed them so yes that is another option. really do not do much driving at night but we have a lot of Friday and Saturday night cruise in night and would like to attend more of them so that I why I was considering changing over. But I also do have the conversion lamp assembly for the car that would permit me to go to a sealed beam but this totally changes the appearnance of the front fender and is really not astatic looking on the car. So I have options to think about. Still thinking of doing the alternator anyway so the next steps is to put some real thinking into the lights. Keep the comments coming they are very helpful. To get a picture of what the original headlights look like do a search on the 39 Dodge or Desoto or Chrysler and you will see what I have on the car. Tks, The first picture is the headlight lens, second picture is the whole assembly without the outside trim and 3rd picture is with the car with the after market conversion sealed beam assembly 4th is the original headlight chrome. The 4th picture is my actual car with the factory headlights so compare 3 and 4 and tell me what you think, you can not hurt my feelings looking for input. Rich HArtung Edited January 13, 2015 by desoto1939 Quote
Plymouthy Adams Posted January 13, 2015 Report Posted January 13, 2015 as they are still stock..and that you have known of the conversion to round...and yet you are stock..you yourself have already made up your mind to retain that look..now you just got to decide on installing the retro kit....all the facts are basically there already...original, retro the originals, refit round, halogen round...wattage etc...I guess the only real question left is what condition are your original reflectors in...and if the headlight glass is chipped and dull...that alone would be the very deciding factor on pass or play with original.. Quote
Niel Hoback Posted January 13, 2015 Report Posted January 13, 2015 (edited) Ten or fifteen years ago I bought a 6V pos. grnd alternator for $40 at the Hoosier swap meet near Indy from this guy: Weust Auto Electric, 1407 1st Ave. Terre Haute, Indiana. 47807. Ph. 800-283-1298 or 812-234-8582 I wonder if its the same guy. I hope so, because he was very good about replacing the regulator when it died. Edited January 13, 2015 by Niel Hoback Quote
Andydodge Posted January 13, 2015 Report Posted January 13, 2015 Rich.......I had a look at # 3 and # 4...........no comparison..............lol..........do you have any spare original reflectors?..........I assume they are silver plated metal?......would it be possible to have the silver stripped via a chrome shop then get a 7" sealed beam metal thingy...lol........you know what I mean and have it soldered/welded/braised into the stripped metal reflector thus giving you a "mount" for 7" sealed beam lenses..........then get a 55/56 up mopar 12v generator or one of those Powergen 12v alternators that look like an alternator or just a straight alternator..........only thing I suppose with this setup would be whether the 7" shining thru the original lens would be o/k..........its funny that, well not funny I suppose but 1939 Mopars have the most distinctive headlight lenses, all 4 are different and just one year later all 4 were the same with the intro of the 7" sealed beam.............but those aftermarket ones on that 39 Desoto in pic # 3 don't do it for me...............lol..........dunno if this has helped at all...........I sympathise with your problem................andyd Quote
blucarsdn Posted January 16, 2015 Report Posted January 16, 2015 Having been there done that, I can attest to the fact that converting reflector headlights to halogen does not work.. The common useage, '36-39 HL bulbs are called "pre-focused" they are made to work with the prisums of the original lens. Halogen bulbs are not pre-focused to match the lens, therefore, they put out a lot of poorly directed light.. I ruined a set of '39 Plym reflectors installing halogen's.. I then found out about the high out-put bulbs that Todd mentioned in his post. I also found that Ron Francis makes a bulb.. "Brght Bulbs" that fit the original '36-39 sockets... I had to have another set of reflectors re-silvered so I could use the original style of sockets with the Bright Bulbs.. Foot Note.. I actually had the reflectors nickle plated over the copper base, then had a glass coating done by a company in Oregon... They will never tarnish.. Quote
desoto1939 Posted January 16, 2015 Author Report Posted January 16, 2015 Having been there done that, I can attest to the fact that converting reflector headlights to halogen does not work.. The common useage, '36-39 HL bulbs are called "pre-focused" they are made to work with the prisums of the original lens. Halogen bulbs are not pre-focused to match the lens, therefore, they put out a lot of poorly directed light.. I ruined a set of '39 Plym reflectors installing halogen's.. I then found out about the high out-put bulbs that Todd mentioned in his post. I also found that Ron Francis makes a bulb.. "Brght Bulbs" that fit the original '36-39 sockets... I had to have another set of reflectors re-silvered so I could use the original style of sockets with the Bright Bulbs.. Foot Note.. I actually had the reflectors nickle plated over the copper base, then had a glass coating done by a company in Oregon... They will never tarnish.. I have heard of this gentleman in Oregon it is an oxide coating I think Aluminum. This is the coating that they are using in our modern cars to get the bright reflective headlight beam. Yes this is another option and this might be the best way to go. Thanks for your input. At least with your Ply you can find the reflectors but for the 39 Desoto these are so hard to find that is why I have some real reservations about drilling out the hole. Once it is done you can not go back to original look. Rich HArtung Desoto1939@aol.com Quote
Labrauer Posted January 17, 2015 Report Posted January 17, 2015 I have put new Halogen lights on my 48 Plymouth coupe a while back and haven't had a bit of trouble so far. I know that I can see a whole lot better at night with them. I had to cut the back of the canister out a little for them to fit but after fitting them I have never looked back. Had to readjust the head lights again because of the brightness blinding other people on the road. I enjoy seeing at night but have seen an increase in the heat these bulbs produce. I have had no other problem with them so far. I got them off of e-bay for about 20 dollars and haven't looked back although they do take a little more amps but not that much. Quote
blucarsdn Posted January 18, 2015 Report Posted January 18, 2015 Halogen headlights on a '40 or later vehicle is a whole different deal than converting reflector type '39 an earlier. I converted my '39 Plym from "Arrow brand" sealed beams, which was a common conversion in the early '40's, back to the square reflector type.. The '39 Plymouth assemblies are a little easier to find, however, I got quite an education out of the whole process.. I spent a lot of money and time before I found out that there are eary and late model, and left and right assemblies. None of the Plymouth guys bothered to clue me in to the anomaly.. When I got smart about the differences in many parts, I took the time to search out the factory parts books. Big help if you are trying to keep a vehicle somewhat correct. 1 Quote
blucarsdn Posted January 21, 2015 Report Posted January 21, 2015 desoto39.. The big advantage to using the "Ron Francis Brght Bulbs" is that no modifications to the reflectors is required.. Ron Francis also has new stock type '36-39 recepticals... Some people think you can save a bunch of money by having the reflectors chrome plated in lieu of silver and/or nickle and the modern glass coating.. Chrome does not work well on headlight reflectors, for two reasons. The first reason being that chrome is not very "reflective", secondly it is near impossible to properly chrome plate the curviture of a headlight reflector.. Quote
desoto1939 Posted January 22, 2015 Author Report Posted January 22, 2015 I went to the Ron Francis site and he does not have the 2331 bulbs that were used in my car, unless I did not see the bulb listed. Thanks for the information Rich Hartung Desoto1939@aol.com Quote
TodFitch Posted January 22, 2015 Report Posted January 22, 2015 I went to the Ron Francis site and he does not have the 2331 bulbs that were used in my car, unless I did not see the bulb listed. Thanks for the information Rich Hartung Desoto1939@aol.com Just tried to look up 2331 in my 1970 GE miniature lamp technical data and that number is missing. My guess is that 2331 was superseded by some other number a while before 1970. I have some 1930s aftermarket documentation that indicates that it is a 32cp bulb for both low and high beam with a Chrysler part number of 659530. On the Plymouth side it looks like it might be interchangeable with 576312 as the parts book shows one number but the service manual show the other. Anyway, looking at the Classic and Vintage Bulb site in Australia, I see they say they have an equivalent to the 2331 and 2351 which they note are for "Chrysler based cars". They are available in 6v, 8v and 12v varieties, see: http://www.classicandvintagebulbs.com/page3.html I've been very pleased with the #1000 replacements I got from Classic and Vintage Bulbs more than 10 years ago. Only two issues I see: First I can't find wattage ratings on their web site so you will need to check that. Second, I believe they got a US distributor a while back who you now have to go through and last I checked the US distributor wanted a pound of flesh for their efforts. Quote
desoto1939 Posted January 22, 2015 Author Report Posted January 22, 2015 the 2531 original bulbs were the higher bulbs 50/32 candle power versus 2331 32/32 candle power. These are the bulbs that have the flange on them that have the three pin holes in the flange Hartung Quote
TodFitch Posted January 22, 2015 Report Posted January 22, 2015 the 2531 original bulbs were the higher bulbs 50/32 candle power versus 2331 32/32 candle power. These are the bulbs that have the flange on them that have the three pin holes in the flange Hartung 50 cp would be about 35 watts. If your can can handle that then it should be able to handle the 35 watt quartz-halogen Classic & Vintage Bulbs lamps. On my car I felt that was pushing the limits of my switch which was designed for the much older 21cp bulbs so I went with 25 watt C&VB replacements. Quote
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