MarcDeSoto Posted January 9, 2015 Report Posted January 9, 2015 I am getting ready to start my rebuilt 48 DeSoto flathead 6 engine for the first time since its rebuild, which was about 30 years ago. Yes you read right! I can turn the engine over by hand using a large socket on the crankshaft nut. I read in contemporary Chrysler literature that new engines should be broken in with 10 weight non-detergent oil and should be driven for the first 1,000 miles that way. Does anyone know if that is still the best advice for new engine break in? The reason for the oil being non-detergent is I think to let the rings seat properly in the cylinders. Of course they don't sell 10 weight non detergent oil anymore in your average local car supply store. You might have to go to NAPA or a farm tractor store. Quote
Andydodge Posted January 9, 2015 Report Posted January 9, 2015 Don Coatney would be the expert on this I'd think having rebuilt a similar mill.....andyd 1 Quote
Don Coatney Posted January 9, 2015 Report Posted January 9, 2015 Why a new thread? You ask the same question in this linked thread http://p15-d24.com/topic/37672-5w-50-good-for-classic-cars/ Did you not like the answer you got. Quote
desoto1939 Posted January 9, 2015 Report Posted January 9, 2015 Since the engine is a rebuild engine I would also add some RedLine Engine Breakin oil since it is a new engine. ANd i am going to say myabe some ZDDP since the valve tappets could use some extra anti wear protection. I know some people disagree abiut the ZDDP additive but since its a rebuilt engine why not. a few bucks spent to me is worth the money becasue of the cost to rebuild the engine is more costly. Then a good quality oil. I spoke to Shell Oil about their rotella T15-40 desiel oil and they stated that this isa fine oil for our older cars. Might want to quirt some oil down each sparkplug hole and thurn the car over to get oil on the cyklinder walls before an official fireup. Do not use starter fluid as this will strip any oil off the cylinder walls if the engine does not fire up. Rich HArtung Quote
MarcDeSoto Posted January 9, 2015 Author Report Posted January 9, 2015 Since Chrysler literature says to break the flat head engine in with 10 weight non-detergent oil and the semi-automatic transmission uses 10 weight non detergent oil, does anyone know if anyone still sells it? I called NAPA and the only non detergent oil they sell is 30 weight. Quote
_shel_ny Posted January 9, 2015 Report Posted January 9, 2015 (edited) Ebay, Amazon, O'Reilly auto parts 26891 Jefferson Ave - Murrieta 40951 California Oaks Rd - Murrieta 812 South Main Street - Fallbrook 33417 Temecula Parkway - Temecula 31660 Grape Street - Lake Elsinore Edited January 9, 2015 by shel_ny Quote
MarcDeSoto Posted January 9, 2015 Author Report Posted January 9, 2015 Shel, I check Amazon and they do sell Kendall 10 weight non detergent to the tune of almost $50 per quart!!! I also checked O'Reilly Auto Parts and they don't sell it unless you want to order a 55 gallon drum costing over $900! The counterman at O'Reilly's called his machine shop for advice for me. The machinist said you use 30 weight non detergent, since the 10 weight was not available, and change the oil at 500 miles. He also said you should add a zinc additive to help seat the rings. I am just not sure about using the 30 w when the factory recommend 10 for engine break in. I also found a gallon of 10 to 12 weight hydraulic oil that had detergent. He said that might be good for the semi-auto transmission. I understand that Type F transmission fluid is the recommended oil for the fluid drive unit. Quote
DonaldSmith Posted January 9, 2015 Report Posted January 9, 2015 Type F for the fluid drive unit? It doesn't sound right. Search for "fluid drive fluid" threads. Hydraulic piston oil is the stuff. Automatic transmission fluids have additives in them that may damage the fluid coupling seals. 1 Quote
Don Coatney Posted January 9, 2015 Report Posted January 9, 2015 MarcDeSoto, on 09 Jan 2015 - 6:27 PM, said:Shel, I check Amazon and they do sell Kendall 10 weight non detergent to the tune of almost $50 per quart!!! I also checked O'Reilly Auto Parts and they don't sell it unless you want to order a 55 gallon drum costing over $900! The counterman at O'Reilly's called his machine shop for advice for me. The machinist said you use 30 weight non detergent, since the 10 weight was not available, and change the oil at 500 miles. He also said you should add a zinc additive to help seat the rings. I am just not sure about using the 30 w when the factory recommend 10 for engine break in. I also found a gallon of 10 to 12 weight hydraulic oil that had detergent. He said that might be good for the semi-auto transmission. I understand that Type F transmission fluid is the recommended oil for the fluid drive unit. There you go! The answer you wanted to hear. Buy it and your home free. 3 Quote
Dave72dt Posted January 10, 2015 Report Posted January 10, 2015 Find someplace that sells Royal Purple oil. They make an oil designed for break in. Follow the directions from RP for run time, RPM and change interval. You should be able to get that oil for about $ 10/qt Quote
Young Ed Posted January 10, 2015 Report Posted January 10, 2015 Marc the flathead guru that built both mine says 30w non detergent break in changed at 500 miles. Quote
Frank Elder Posted January 10, 2015 Report Posted January 10, 2015 (edited) I say quit worrying about following a 70 year old manual by the letter and step into the modern world! An engine is an engine is an engine, If modern break in oils are good enough to break in a 13,000 dollar crate motor they sure as shooting are good enough to break in yours.....[run your cam break in varying the rpms for around 20 to 30 minutes,] drain the break in oil then refill with whatever oil you have chosen for daily driving....done. The stuff in parentheses is misleading..read Austinsailors post. Edited January 10, 2015 by Frank Elder 2 Quote
_shel_ny Posted January 10, 2015 Report Posted January 10, 2015 (edited) Shel, I check Amazon and they do sell Kendall 10 weight non detergent to the tune of almost $50 per quart!!! I also checked O'Reilly Auto Parts and they don't sell it unless you want to order a 55 gallon drum costing over $900! http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/detail/PGD0/ND10/N0427.oap?ck=Search_N0427_-1_-1&pt=N0427&ppt=C0162 2-3 day wait ???? 33417 Temecula Parkway. Perhaps one of the other O'Riellys in your area would have another answer other than 55 gallon drum. Some stores in your area seem to have it in stock. Click on "stores available at". Should show which stores have it in stock. http://www.amazon.com/Accel-60316-SAE-Non-Detergent-Motor/dp/B0052KXYF6 http://www.amazon.com/Kendall-1042767-Non-Detergent-SAE-Motor/dp/B004RNSUA8 Amazon price appears to be for 1 case of 12 quarts. Edited January 10, 2015 by shel_ny Quote
austinsailor Posted January 10, 2015 Report Posted January 10, 2015 (edited) Do not use hydraulic oil in your motor. It may be slippery, but it will not protect the bearings. I learned this expensive lesson through experience. Varying engine speed is not for cam break in, it's for rings. In reality, it's not even the varying speed that is needed, but the heavy loading to set the rings. Saying "varying speed" is just the way to get the message to the average moron - oops, did I say that?? - who just bought a new car and doesn't know a ring from a synchronizer. The best way to break it in is to lug the motor, like, get into high gear at as slow a speed as you can. Then floor it, going up to as high a speed as you can. Repeat this as often as possible. This will set your rings and break your motor in much better. Edited January 10, 2015 by austinsailor 1 Quote
Frank Elder Posted January 10, 2015 Report Posted January 10, 2015 Do not use hydraulic oil in your motor. It may be slippery, but it will not protect the bearings. I learned this expensive lesson through experience. Varying engine speed is not for cam break in, it's for rings. In reality, it's not even the varying speed that is needed, but the heavy loading to set the rings. Saying "varying speed" is just the way to get the message to the average moron - oops, did I say that?? - who just bought a new car and doesn't know a ring from a synchronizer. The best way to break it in is to lug the motor, like, get into high gear at as slow a speed as you can. Then floor it, going up to as high a speed as you can. Repeat this as often as possible. This will set your rings and break your motor in much better. Thanks for the lesson, from one of the morons...lol. Quote
austinsailor Posted January 10, 2015 Report Posted January 10, 2015 Frank, you, and really no one who uses this site, is a moron when it come to cars. Now, the average guy in the street - that's another story. Quote
Frank Elder Posted January 10, 2015 Report Posted January 10, 2015 Frank, you, and really no one who uses this site, is a moron when it come to cars. Now, the average guy in the street - that's another story. Thank you..but I really didn't know that, and I am glad you taught me. So again...thank you. Quote
MarcDeSoto Posted January 10, 2015 Author Report Posted January 10, 2015 Shel NY, Shel you're right. It's more available than I thought. And Amazon has free shipping! But now I'm thinking of getting the Royal Purple break in oil if that's better. But I still need the 10W nd for my transmission, unless there's something better now to use. Quote
timkingsbury Posted January 10, 2015 Report Posted January 10, 2015 OMG.. I resisted getting into this but I cant stand it anymore.. Rotella Diesel oil, or hydraulic oil, or 10 weight oil.. guys guys guys.. The reason engines use "break in oil" and historical was higher detergent was to make sure that any metal coming loose at break in, went to the bottom of the pan and didn't float in through the system, and the idea of dropping oil after "x" miles with "x" being a short interval was to get rid of any metal that was loose and in the bottom of the pan. It is true, old valve seats and valves way back were definitely different that today, just as gas used to have lots of lead in it to cool valves. So here is my best advice for those who don't think I have a clue.. call customer service of whatever oil manufacturer and ask for their technical services group. They all have them. Tell them your thinking about using "pick a product"... say their 15-40 diesel oil in a flathead gasoline mopar and see what they say.. You can tell them its freshly rebuilt, 30 years old or a million miles.. it wont matter. I expect also that 99% of their technical support teams will be able to recommend a product they sell that will get you going. So what I am saying is if you have a brand you like, then by all means call them. There are lots of great options.. hydraulic fluid, 10 weight oil and diesel oil isn't one of them honest. Then go have a look at the video of either of our cars freshly being started https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8y7yB5J7YNWI2Rnnvn8rig And this may sound like I am trying to impress you, but that is far from the truth.. I am trying to impress upon you that we know what we are talking about and have rebuilt and broken in a great number of engines of the flathead and performance type. By all means give us a call 814-354-2621 and we will be happy to have a chat on what he use, what we do during break in etc. Last one.. without question if the automotive engineers from Chrysler - of the 30s, 40's and 50's had the oils of today available to them and cost wasn't an object, they would all be using full synthetic. Id bet the farm on that one ! Now stepping off my soap box and apologizing to one and all... but holy cow I just couldn't help myself here ! Tim Quote
Don Coatney Posted January 10, 2015 Report Posted January 10, 2015 As I have said many times before the engine lubricants available today are much better than they were 70 years ago. The American Petroleum Institute (API) has established specific performance criteria's that engine lubricants sold today must meet. They have established a grading system as seen on this chart. Any lubrication manufacture or distributor that you contact will tell you there product is superior to the product of there competitors as they want to close a sale. This is true even for independent distributors of products such as AMSOL. But the bottom line is still the API rating that can be found on the container. If you look you will see that the rating on lubricants sold as house brands at big box stores or inexpensive lubricants sold at the Dollar Store will have the same rating as the high dollar lubricants as advertised on TV. House brand oil sells for $11.00 per gallon and name brands sell for $24.00 per gallon but both have the same API rating and most likely came from the same vat. Your choice. As far as the best lubrication for a fresh rebuild in my opinion any multi weight detergent oil should work well but the choice is yours. I am not an advocate of using synthetic lubrication in Mopar flathead engines unless you plan on running the engine at the redline or above for hours on end. 2 Quote
Lloyd Posted January 10, 2015 Report Posted January 10, 2015 I say quit worrying about following a 70 year old manual by the letter and step into the modern world! An engine is an engine is an engine, If modern break in oils are good enough to break in a 13,000 dollar crate motor they sure as shooting are good enough to break in yours.....[run your cam break in varying the rpms for around 20 to 30 minutes,] drain the break in oil then refill with whatever oil you have chosen for daily driving....done. The stuff in parentheses is misleading..read Austinsailors post. Use a good quality lube oil, same brand and weight you plan on running regular. Remember a vital part of the lubrication system is the oil filter. So use a good quality filter system as well. With new engines I do the first oil change real soon - within the first 50-100 miles. After words I try and keep it around every 300 miles. My engine I used a break in lube from Advance Auto I used on all the bearings, cam - everything except the oil pump. I stuck it in a can of oil and spun it with a drill till oil pumped out. Same oil I will be running in my engine. Quote
1941Rick Posted January 10, 2015 Report Posted January 10, 2015 Start engine, check for leaks , warm up and check oil pressure....then drive it like you stole it... Quote
Plymouthy Adams Posted January 10, 2015 Report Posted January 10, 2015 Start engine, check for leaks , warm up and check oil pressure....then drive it like you stole it... replace camshaft at your earliest convenience... Quote
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