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engine hard to start in "cold" weather


DutchEdwin

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Took my 1955 Plymouth (V8 engine 4bbl carb. automatic choke) out for a drive last week in the evening. It is a "cold" 10C (50F) overhere. This is the first time I drive this late in the year. I could get the car started, but it took me a while. After driving 6 km (4 miles) and a stop of 10 minutes when I tried to start again it was hard to get it running. Normaly in summer times the car starts after 1 or 2 times trying. Does anyone know what I can do to improve this?

 

When starting cold I first pump 3 times with the gass pedal. Sometimes is startes withing two starts. Sometimes I doesn't.

Then I put the pedal half way down when starting. If it is still not starting, pedal all the way down. Then lifted all the way up. And repeat this until I smell gass. Ten just starting the the pedal all the way down. Normaly takes I think 3 minutes to get it started, and almost drain the battery.

I checked that there is enough fuel in the carburator.

 

The improvements I've done so far.

- new coil, 
- overhauled the distributor with new contact points and cond.
- New spark plug cables and plugs,
- VERY thick batery cables to the starter motor
- Overhauled fuelpump (original one)
- had my fuel tank cleaned
- overhauled the carburator and set all the adjustments to specification mentioned in the service manual.
- placed an modern inline fuel filter before the fuel pump
- Complete engine overhaul
- I read on the forum that modern fuel is burning at a slower rate due to higher compression in modern engines I think. I did advance the timing from 4deg BTDC to 9deg BTDC. I measured the engine vacuum. it improved from 15 inch to 18 inch but not 21 inch like it should be. When I did tune the engine to 21 inch I couldn't see the timing marks anymore, althouth I did place marks up to 10 deg on the new balancer on the crankshaft. I did'nt want to create engine knock. And because it is so hard to hear with a loud engine I didn't like the idea to advance more.

 

 

 

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With a auto choke I would not pump the accelerator 3 times before starting. Pretty sure the correct procedure is key on, one pump only (which sets the choke butterfly, then hit the starter. If that is not the correct procedure for this type of auto choke I'm sure another member will post an update. With the multiple pumps of the gas you may be flooding it. 

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When I was a child we had a '56 Plymouth with a V8 (sorry don't remember size/type of V8) and the automatic choke on that car needed fairly regular attention to have the engine start easily in what passed for winter in Southern Arizona. Based on that I agree with the preceding comments about focusing on the choke.

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I've owned a lot of cars and they almost all started irregularly with automatic chokes and wound up with manual chokes installed. I never liked automatic chokes. They're fussy little nonsense that wears out quickly. If you can drive you can use a choke, and factories all went to automatics generally because people would forget to turn off the choke.

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I overhauled the choke. Took a lot of metal stuff out of it. I changed the exhaust tube to the choke to one out of copper. It works fine now. The car is running at high rpm after startup until after a few minutes when it turns to normal idle 450 rpm.

The other day I took off the air cleaner the choke was closed.

When I start the car only 1 day after it ran, it will start right up. When it sat for 3 weeks, and I press the pedal just once, it will not start. I then will have a hard time to get it running. But when I press the pedal in that case 3 times before the first attempt most times it will fire up (warm weather).

I checked there is still fuel in the carburetor after a few weeks, so the fuel does not evaporate.

 

I just do not know where to look for this problem.

Ulu, I've owned two cars in the past, one with manual choke and one with automatic choke. I too favoured the manual, never gave me trouble, other then the automatic.

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Actually yours sounds fairly normal.

 

After a week's storage it was normal to pump the accelerator pump a few times before starting.

 

Gas would evaporate a little from the carb, and you'd get a weak mixture because of that.

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Ulu, is it also normal the car start's hard after a few miles drive and 10 minutes engine off at temperatures like of 40F to 50F and high humidity?

To me it sounds like a warm engine start. Normal in summer it would start right away in that condition.

 

Could it be my timing is set wrong? although it is at 9 deg. BTDC. The vacuum is still only 18 inch, not 21. I do not want to introduce an engine knock.

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No not normal. Do you ever smell raw gas when it is hard to start after a short run?

 

That sounds like the choke isn't kicking down fast enough when it warms (plus maybe it just never really got fully warm on a short hop) and thus it's flooding on restart. (In the summer it quickly gets warm and the choke comes off much faster.)  Does your choke have the "winter-summer" adjustment arrows on the round cover?

 

I would not over-advance the timing, and your low vacuum my have another, unrelated cause. But have you "degreed" this engine? It's quite common for timing marks to be off a little, so be sure before you decide it's really advanced enough. (but: Too much advance can mean hard starts.)

 

Have you tested everything for possible vacuum leaks?

 

You might also check for a crack in the base of the carb. It's a long shot IMO but a tiny crack can open and close with temperature, causing mixture problems.

Edited by Ulu
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On the day after Christmas (our 2e Christmas day) I took her out for the last drive of the year because snow was comming. Salt on the road after that so no more driving until that's washed away. I tried to do everything right.

Car stood still for 2 weeks, temperature just above freezing so I pumped the gas pedal 3 times to get some fuel in, placed the gas pedal at 1/3 in and turned the key. Guess what, it started right up.

Did do nothing else then before, I think.  Only discussed it on the forum. Perhaps ....it's a Plymouth so.... did see the movie Christine a long time ago.....well you never know but it could be she has a will of her own :eek:

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