New to the Hobby - Questions

[46CoupeSD]

Hello everyone,

 

As stated in my previous thread regarding the 602 radio, I just recently inherited a 1946 Special Deluxe Business Coupe from my mother. I have very limited car knowledge, and think it's great that a resource such as this forum exists - I plan on coming here for all of my P15 questions!

 

I was planning on showing the car in a few weeks at a local AACA meet, and want to make sure I do as much as is reasonably possible within a short period of time to prepare.

 

• This car was my mothers daily driver for many years in San Diego during the 1970s, and it shows in certain places. The wood graining on the driver and passenger side doors are in disrepair (see photos). Is there anything I can do, as someone totally new to the hobby, to better the condition without fear of messing it up more? The only thread I found that mentioned this problem is here. 

• I plan to give the car a total wash, polish, and waxing soon. It was last repainted in the early '70s, and as far as I know, it was painted using "period correct" paint (my grandfather is a stickler for keeping antique cars original). Are there any products I should avoid so as not to damage the paint? Are there any products that you are familiar with that are specially formulated for cars of this age?

• Do you have any advice for a newbie like me that doesn't know much about antique cars?

In the long run, I plan restoring the car to how it was when my mother first received it in 1970, or possibly even nicer.

 

Thank you so much for your help, I'm sure I'll be back with more questions!

[Jim Yergin]

Welcome to the forum. I see you are in Fairfax. Several us here in Northern Virginia are planning on attending the September 27, 2014 show at the Leesburg Airport. Hope you consider joining us. Here is a link with more information.

http://p15-d24.com/topic/36777-northern-virginia-air-car-show-leesburg/

Jim Yergin

[greg g]

Before you do anything, if the car is mostly original, you may to look into the realitively recent designation HPOF. This recognizes and certifies car for the historic preservation of original features. It celebrates cars and trucks that have been cared for and maintained as close to original as possible. You mentioned a repaint, but that will not disqualify you car from consideration. They have an inspection criteria which grants a certification for cars garnering a 65% points scored level. Looks like the window garnishes are mostly sun damaged, I would try cleaning them with a non abrasive all purpose cleaner, like simple green or similar. Start with a diluted concentration to see if it works without damaging it further. Then give it a coat of wax. Most of the original stuff was an applique similar to a decal, so you want to be gentle. Nice looking coupe.

[ChrisRice]

Before you do anything, if the car is mostly original, you may to look into the realitively recent designation HPOF. This recognizes and certifies car for the historic preservation of original features. It celebrates cars and trucks that have been cared for and maintained as close to original as possible. You mentioned a repaint, but that will not disqualify you car from consideration. They have an inspection criteria which grants a certification for cars garnering a 65% points scored level.

HISTORICAL PRESERVATION OF ORIGINAL FEATURES (HPOF) CLASS -  Since its’ founding, AACA has been dedicated to the preservation, restoration and maintenance of vehicles. In the furtherance of the “preservation” mission, the AACA Board of Directors in 1987 established a program to encourage the saving and display of collector vehicles in their original, as-manufactured condition. The Historical Preservation of Original Features program encourages owners of vehicles 35 years old and older, retaining significant original features to allow them to remain in this original condition, and to show them at National Meets. A vehicle may be entirely “original” or it may have certain “original” features such as paint, chassis, upholstery, engine compartment, etc., that are essentially as delivered. These vehicles will not be point judged. They will be certified using a percentage system which includes a total average percentage of the original features of the exterior, interior, chassis and engine. The vehicle must receive a score of sixty-five percent (65%) or above to receive certification.

They will be recognized at the awards ceremony and will receive an exhibition award (and a mounting board at first certification). A certification badge will be presented to each vehicle upon acceptance into the HPOF category. The badge should be mounted at some visable location on the front of the vehicle. Vehicles

entering the HPOF category will be prohibited from future registration in any other competition or exhibition class. If the vehicle is restored, certification in HPOF category will be voided. No previous National First Prize winners are accepted. An HPOF certified vehicle that is significantly restored will lose its’ HPOF certification. HPOF certification remains with the vehicle even if there is a change of ownership.

Edited September 11, 2014 by ChrisRice

[50 coupe]

Beautiful car! Looks like it is in great shape. I'm not really a wax and polish guy but I don't believe you can go wrong with a wash soap designed for cars (ie no dish soap) and a quality carnuba wax will get it clean and bring out the best in the paint and protect it. As far as the rest of your questions, the sky is the limit. Depending on your time, experience and resources you can do it yourself or pay a pro. Actually, that ACCA show you are going to would be a great opportunity to pick the brains of car owners for tips or recomendations for restorers they have had experience with. Car guys LOVE to talk about their cars so you should have no problem getting helpful info.

[Don Coatney]

Hello everyone,

 

 Are there any products that you are familiar with that are specially formulated for cars of this age?

In my opinion products that advertise as specially formulated for cars of this age are snake oil formulated only to drive the price up. But as I said that is just my opinion. Most all consumable parts such as tune up supplies are available at most good auto parts stores so there is no need to buy from antique vendors at an inflated price.

 

There are several forum members in your extended neighborhood. Check out the members map found on the toolbar at the top of the forum. You should add your location to the map.

 

If you have not yet done so I suggest you purchase a service manual for your car. I prefer a paper copy as opposed to a disc.

[steveplym]

HISTORICAL PRESERVATION OF ORIGINAL FEATURES (HPOF) CLASS -  Since its’ founding, AACA has been dedicated to the preservation, restoration and maintenance of vehicles. In the furtherance of the “preservation” mission, the AACA Board of Directors in 1987 established a program to encourage the saving and display of collector vehicles in their original, as-manufactured condition. The Historical Preservation of Original Features program encourages owners of vehicles 35 years old and older, retaining significant original features to allow them to remain in this original condition, and to show them at National Meets. A vehicle may be entirely “original” or it may have certain “original” features such as paint, chassis, upholstery, engine compartment, etc., that are essentially as delivered. These vehicles will not be point judged. They will be certified using a percentage system which includes a total average percentage of the original features of the exterior, interior, chassis and engine. The vehicle must receive a score of sixty-five percent (65%) or above to receive certification.

They will be recognized at the awards ceremony and will receive an exhibition award (and a mounting board at first certification). A certification badge will be presented to each vehicle upon acceptance into the HPOF category. The badge should be mounted at some visable location on the front of the vehicle. Vehicles

entering the HPOF category will be prohibited from future registration in any other competition or exhibition class. If the vehicle is restored, certification in HPOF category will be voided. No previous National First Prize winners are accepted. An HPOF certified vehicle that is significantly restored will lose its’ HPOF certification. HPOF certification remains with the vehicle even if there is a change of ownership.

 

So if it was repainted over 40 years ago would that disqualify it from that classification?

[desoto1939]

Repainting a car: I have a 39 Desoto that has been repainted. About 4 years ago there was an AACA car show here in Reading PA.  I took the car to the show and entered it in the HPOF category.  I told the judge that this car has been repainted and a new headliner was put in the car.

 

He replied that is ok.  He looked over the engine and the interior and under the car. Asked a couple of questions if anything has been replaced. I told him that it isa matching serial numbers car, Oiriginal engine, trans, rear, front suspension and so forth.

 

I was awarded my HPOF bage then there isa  an Original HPOF that they are really looking for an original car that has nothing done to the car except for what might have to been done to keep it running even if it has a bump or dent that is ok.

 

Rich Hartung

desoto1939@aol.com

[46CoupeSD]

Welcome to the forum. I see you are in Fairfax. Several us here in Northern Virginia are planning on attending the September 27, 2014 show at the Leesburg Airport. Hope you consider joining us. Here is a link with more information.

http://p15-d24.com/topic/36777-northern-virginia-air-car-show-leesburg/

Jim Yergin

 

Jim, I would love to come to the air/car show in Leesburg! The last photo shown was taken this past weekend just south of Lucketts at the Brossman Farm Stand.  I'll be at the Rohr Memorial Car Meet being run by the Bull Run AACA chapter - maybe I'll see some of the forum folks there as well.

 

Before you do anything, if the car is mostly original, you may to look into the realitively recent designation HPOF. This recognizes and certifies car for the historic preservation of original features. It celebrates cars and trucks that have been cared for and maintained as close to original as possible. You mentioned a repaint, but that will not disqualify you car from consideration. They have an inspection criteria which grants a certification for cars garnering a 65% points scored level. Looks like the window garnishes are mostly sun damaged, I would try cleaning them with a non abrasive all purpose cleaner, like simple green or similar. Start with a diluted concentration to see if it works without damaging it further. Then give it a coat of wax. Most of the original stuff was an applique similar to a decal, so you want to be gentle. Nice looking coupe.

 

Thanks for the information regarding the HPOF, although sadly I don't think I'd qualify. Long story-short, a woman tried to shoot her husband at the hospital my mother was working at nearly 40 years ago. The husband (wisely) decided to hide the largest piece of metal he could find in the parking lot, my Plymouth. After it was shot, it had bodywork done, in addition to being reupholstered and repainted. Additionally, my grandfather installed an aftermarket 4-note vacuum horn (that I believe might be period correct, but not factory). As far as I know, this car won a Junior Award a long time ago. I'm still waiting to hear back from the AACA to see if they have any records of when that occurred.

 

Also, thanks for letting me know that simple green might do the trick, I'll have to try it out!

 

I'll post some more pictures once I have it good and clean!

[BobT-47P15]

Looks to me like the window frames have already been re done once....and that finish is wearing off.

 

So, they would probably need to be sanded down and wood grained again.....or if that can't be done,

at least painted a color complimentary to the interior.   

 

There are articles and instructions on woodgraining out there......just have to find them.

Edited September 12, 2014 by BobT-47P15

[Tom Skinner]

Wood Graining is easy. Just Practice first on scrap metal. You will get good at it soon enough.

As for the AACA and their HPOF designations - Phuuuuwwweee.

They want to treat you like your in the Cub Scouts anyway - with Points and Badges and Trophies.

They tried to get me to join after they nit picked my car to death at a show, and told me I would have to work a minimum of 6 days a year at their Car Shows.

My Car is, except for a fish eye (1 or 2) - perfect.

The AACA is a joke.

The thought for the day is posted on their bulletin boards and they all seem to be quite the bunch

of subordinates you would expect to find in an organization such as that.

I don't restore cars for some newbee car judge to hand me cheap tiny plastic Trophies. .

That's for the Cub Scouts. L.O.L.

[Don Coatney]

Come on Tom, Tell us what you really think

 

 

[51cambridge]

The best trophy is when your car makes someone smile and say my dad had one , uncle mom etc. The funnyest one was when an old lady said i had alot of fun in the back seat of one of them. She quickly added when she was 5 on her parents road trip.

So 46coupe, have fun and enjoy!

[desoto1939]

Tom:  The AACA does not require that you work at any car shows. The National events are run by a local chapter of the AACA and they the local hosts the event.  They put out requests for certified judges that are in the area and or coming to the meet to help judge the cars.  Also a rookie is never permited to judge a car.  A new rookie has to attend several NAtional meets and is assigned to an experience group with a Senior Judge. The rook and or judge that is still in training tags along with the group and is given education on the various cars and then after meeting specifc qualification than they can be part of an official team.

 

Ye they AACa are not perfect and I also agree on that. They do have some strange rules like any car prior to 1946 can have an electric fuel pump on the car but after that year they can not. I have asked why at several AACA meets and no one can explain it. 

 

Also I pointed out that any car that has had their safety glass replaced also has to have points deducted on their car becasue most of these cars have not put the date code and glass maufacturer stamp in the various corners onthe glass.  So technically every Sr and also Grand NAtional car that does not have these glass marks is not a 100% restored car.  Guess what they did not like my comment but some of the judges siad I was correct and they do not take points off for that so yes they are not perfect.

 

But they are a great organization and if it were not for the AACA we would not have the Eastern NAtioanl event at Hershey every fall with approx 8-10 thousend venders. So all is not bad there is good inthe AACA. Just think of all the various venders and parts suppliers that have started companies such as Bernbaums, Mitchells, etc. The AACA gave them the opportunity to go out a buy the old parts and the avenues for us to get the NOS parts. They come to the bigger swap meets so we can get the parts. Prior to them alot of old cars just rusted away becasue people could not find the parts an or no one was buying up the old stock to resale. Alot of times it went to the scrap yards and the Mother Car manufacturers di dnot even want to take back the parts.

 

So thank god there are vendors and the  AACA.

 

 

Rich HArtung

Desoto1939@aol.com

Edited September 12, 2014 by desoto1939

[ledfootslim]

Here are a few samples of the new wood-graining on Lady Grey- if you like them, I'll post the full instructions on how to do it yourself!

[DJ194950]

Here are a few samples of the new wood-graining on Lady Grey- if you like them, I'll post the full instructions on how to do it yourself!

 

Nice work!

 

Don't believe I've seen a wood grained heater before!

 

DJ

[ledfootslim]

Nice work!

 

Don't believe I've seen a wood grained heater before!

 

DJ

Yep- we went whole-hog! 

[bbbbbb99]

Here are a few samples of the new wood-graining on Lady Grey- if you like them, I'll post the full instructions on how to do it yourself!

 

 

Please do

[ledfootslim]

Please do

No prob- I'll try to put it up after work tomorrow.

[Lloyd]

Here are a few samples of the new wood-graining on Lady Grey- if you like them, I'll post the full instructions on how to do it yourself!

That looks really nice. Ive got to do something with my dash as well. Would like to see how you did that.

Thanks.

[Don Coatney]

Please post how you did it and you might want to add the information to the recourses section of this web page.  

[Tom Skinner]

On wood graining. I have a 1948 Chrysler Royal with Walnut Burl Grain. I started with a spray beige lacquer spray base coat. Once Dry. I used a short Fat Haired Oil Brush with Burnt Sienna and Burnt Umber Mixed unevenly with a tiny bit of Linseed Oil to swirl into the trim piece until I developed a pattern that mimicked what was on the other original pieces I observed while doing so.

Doing this with the parts removed is the best results. Once happy with my "masterpiece" I let it dry for a week or two (As Oil Paints dry very slow). I then got some Clear Lacquer Seal Coat in a spray can, and proceeded to put about 12-15 coats lightly onto each piece I had done letting each coat dry thoroughly. The results are hard to differentiate from the original. It felt like I was a kid again with the smell of Linseed Oil in the air. It is to be noted that the original grain was probably laminated onto these pieces to begin with during manufacture, so your results may come close as can be to original inn looks, but not exactly the same in texture with your arm or fingers running over the finished piece. That is why 15-20 coats of clear lacquer sealant would be best.

This method takes time so if your the type of guy that needs instant gratification - stay away from this method. The best part of this method is - if your not getting good results - wipe it off and start over as oil paints are so slow to dry. Using a comb (found at Lowes) for this purpose may aid in your desired pattern. Natural sponges help. I learned this method on You-Tube about 6-7 years ago. It must be borne in mind that practice makes perfect. That being in the right frame of mind - say several glasses of Crown Royal - will aid in excellent results.

Good Luck.

Tom

Edited September 13, 2014 by Tom Skinner

[Tom Skinner]

Hobby Lobby is a good source for the Art Materials. This is by and large far and away the cheapest method of wood grain method. At your own pace - supplies are less than $100 for the whole interior.

As for the AACA Rich I can supply you with the name of the gentlemen in the Charlotte Chapter that told me that I would need to work at least 6 days a year at their Car Shows, as a pre-requisite for joining. Also I would like to mention I attended two of their dinners (which I paid for) at two separate meetings, I was told the same as above. In another words it was re-iterated to me.

Listen I'm sure they are a strong good group of people, but they are not responsible for building Andy Bernbaum's business or anybody else' . Look I'm guessing your a member, so fine, I just felt like I didn't belong there after two meetings. I guess I am a Lone Wolf kind of guy. I am a doer not a talker, and most everyone there at the meeting seemed to me like they could talk the horns right off of a Billy Goat's head. Not my kind of people. So don't take my description of the AACA seriously. Thanks.

Tom

[TodFitch]

. . . Listen I'm sure they are a strong good group of people, but they are not responsible for building Andy Bernbaum's business or anybody else' . Look I'm guessing your a member, so fine, I just felt like I didn't belong there after two meetings. I guess I am a Lone Wolf kind of guy. I am a doer not a talker, and most everyone there at the meeting seemed to me like they could talk the horns right off of a Billy Goat's head. Not my kind of people. So don't take my description of the AACA seriously. Thanks.

Tom

Sounds like a local region thing to me: The AACA national requires no meetings or attending meets. Or even owning a car. About the only thing they require is money for dues. The have a nice magazine which is mostly why I am a member.

 

I've been a member of the AACA national since the 1970s, joining because it was a requirement to join the local region. And the region I joined was a good one. But when I moved out of that area in the late 1970s I never found a region in the areas I've lived since that I "clicked" with. Regions of other clubs, yes. Sometimes a local only club, yes. But not a AACA region.

 

Seems like clubs and regions of national clubs attract or recruit new members who have the same mindset as those who are already members so they change slowly if they change at all.

[captden29]

I think you have to be a member to get the HPOF certification.my car qualifies, but I never got one while attending any of their shows.i am not a member. capt den