Random Clutch Rattle

[DonaldSmith]

My 47 DeSoto Suburban steers like a charm now, and I can execute tight maneuvers with ease.  But its not quite ready for the DeSoto convention in mid-July. 

 

With the car in neutral,there is a random rattle, apparently in the bellhousing, like a chunk of something bouncing around.  When I press the pedal down, the noise disappears.  Sometimes it does not rattle at all, sometimes it sounds like a dryer full of bolts. 

 

The clutch fork has vertical travel that seems excessive.  As I remember, the clutch fork is supposed to clip to the ball end of a pivot, so the fork should be loose to pivot horizontally, but not move vertically.   

 

I bought a cheap HF inspection camera today, and I'm still getting used to it, but I did see the entire round end of the pivot.  So I suspect something wrong with the fork.  It looks like time to inspect the clutch. 

 

Instructions:  

Simply remove the transmission. 

Inspect and fix the clutch stuff. 

Simply reinstall the transmission, and put everything else back the way it was.  

Ya, simple.  I went through this six years ago,with some broken clip springs on the throw-out sleeve .

 

Six years ago I used a makeshift board and strap on my floor jack to remove the transmission, but it did not keep the transmission from shifting.   This time I'm going to pop for a cheap HF transmission jack.  

 

Wish me luck.  May it be something simple.

 

[Jim Yergin]

That Harbor Freight transmission jack was one of best tool investment I ever made. Have used multiple times to remove and install my transmission. Don't know what I would do without it.

Jim Yergin

[Don Coatney]

This might or might not help.

 

 

I assume you still have some of these springs. If not I have not yet used the 2 you sent me.

 

 

 

I have heard that the spring that clips to the ball has failed in some applications.

 

 

This is P-15 clutch linkage, it may differ from yours.

 

 

Clutch fork and ball.

 

 

Do you have a clutch fork return spring installed? If not you may want to install one before transmission removal.

 

[desoto1939]

Hey Don:

 

I was a member of the NDC back inthe 80-90's. I was the chairman of the 13th national Desoto COnvention that was held in Vallye Forge PA..

 

When you get to the convention look up Les Pesavento. He and I go back a long time and tell him i said hello.  Thsi years convention I think is being held in Fort Wayne., Ind.

 

Rich HArtung

desoto1939@aol.com

[DonaldSmith]

Jim: Thanks for the thumbs-up on the transmission jack.  

 

Don:  I'll keep the springs in mind, and I can refer to the photos that you have posted.  As to what my rattle is, we sall shoon shee... shall shoon see... shall soon see.  That's easy for you to say.  Thanks.

 

Rich:  I bought my DeSoto Suburban from Les Pesavento, and I see him around occasionally.  He is the 1947 DeSoto technical adviser, and this year he is the Pres of the National DeSoto Club .  Yes, the convention will be at Fort Wayne, July 17th through 19th, with the car show on the 19th.   They are even going to have a spot for our Plymouth friends. 

[Don Coatney]

The Desoto convention host hotel is about 5 miles from my house here in the Fort. As my Plymouth is Desoto powered suppose I can park close

[DonaldSmith]

Someone said that there will be a "Friends of DeSoto" lot.  Sounds good.

 

And Don, I looked.  I do have a clutch fork return spring that hooks onto that funny little pointed metal piece that bolts to the bellhousing.  

[desoto1939]

Hey Don:

 

I know when I chaired the convention we had a spot for all other moPars cars that came to the car show so tha they could be parked near the show field>  We wanted to include all of the current and future MoPAr owners to participate in some fashion.

 

If you contact the NDC and ask if they will let you park near the showfield I would probably think they will say yes.  I think the chairman this year is a Tim Fagan and he hosted the Fort Wayne convention back in the early 90's  They are trying to beat the all time record of attendess that we had at the 98 convnetion in valley Forge. I think we had around 130 cars and even the 1929 Desoto from the Chrysler Muesum that they had just completed the restoration.  We had every year regestered in cluded all three years for the Airflows. Then on the way to the convention both 31 Desoto owneres had probelms so we did not get every year on the show field but at least we had them registered and this was the first ever for that. Do not know if that will ever happen again but would love to see it happen sometime.

 

Rich Hartung

Desoto1939@aol.com

Edited May 13, 2014 by desoto1939

[desoto1939]

Don Smith: Also say hello to Tim Fagan.  When he came east for our convention he was visiting realtives in Washington DC with his convertable in which he had just gotten the new roof installed be fore coming east and someone in DC slashed the roof on the car.

 

He called me and i told him to come to the convention and we would over look the issue of the rrof. i was able to contact an auto interior guy and he patched the roof for him and his was able to show the car and then was able to get back home without a leaky roof.

 

Have not been a member since 2000 and Les can fill in all the details on that when you get some time to talk to him.

 

Rich Hartung

[Ulu]

That Harbor Freight transmission jack was one of best tool investment I ever made. Have used multiple times to remove and install my transmission. Don't know what I would do without it.

Jim Yergin

 

Last time I did mine i laid under the car with the transmission on my chest and pressed it in by hand.

It was the OD trans too.....OOOOF!

 

But that was 25 years ago & I think I'll be using a trans jack this time LOL.

[DCurrent]

The Desoto convention host hotel is about 5 miles from my house here in the Fort. As my Plymouth is Desoto powered suppose I can park close

Don!

I haven't visited the site lately, you have moved? Dang I wish I could attend that Desoto event. It is the same weekend we are going to have the Vintage Motorbike Club meet in Portland, Indiana. Something that I want to attend always, always falls on those dates!!!!! Crap.

[DonaldSmith]

Wait!  Before I buy a transmission jack and take out the transmission, I'll remove the floor pan, which I would have to do anyway.  Then I'll have two vent screens and the clutch fork seal to look past.  I can poke my inspection camera into the nooks and crannies to see what I can see.  

 

Maybe I can fix the problem without removing the transmission.  One may hope. 

 

From the last episode, in 2008:

 

 

So it's off with the floor pan.  (I keep trying to say "floor plan"; it's my architectural background.)

Edited May 13, 2014 by DonaldSmith

[Niel Hoback]

Is there a clutch cover on the bottom you can take down?

[DonaldSmith]

With the floor pan off, I removed the two ventilation screens, and could see the clutch fork pivot.

 

I started the engine and ran it in neutral, clutch pedal up.  The noise is coming from the throw-out bearing assembly.  

 

If I lift up the clutch fork to get rid of the sag at the pivot, the noise stops.  If I let go or push down, the noise is back.  So the slop at the pivot is misaligning the throw-out bearing assembly, causing the noise.  The fork and pivot have too much slop, and are probably worn. 

 

I will have to remove the transmission, or at least move it back far enough to get the pivot out.  So I will go ahead and buy the transmission jack.

 

At least I could see what the problem is.  

 

Edited May 13, 2014 by DonaldSmith

[Don Coatney]

The spring we discussed earlier should hold the pedal at the upper most position. Is it noisy when the pedal is at the upper most position?

[Don Coatney]

Don!

I haven't visited the site lately, you have moved? Dang I wish I could attend that Desoto event. It is the same weekend we are going to have the Vintage Motorbike Club meet in Portland, Indiana. Something that I want to attend always, always falls on those dates!!!!! Crap.

Yes I now live in Fort Wayne. I was in hopes that some year I can attend your Portland meet. Is it still going on Sunday?

[Don Coatney]

 

 

Have not been a member since 2000 and Les can fill in all the details on that when you get some time to talk to him.

 

Rich Hartung

Just curious, there must have been a Desoto Club fallout in 2000 as I know other members that backed out around then.

[DonaldSmith]

Yes, the spring holds the pedal in the uppermost position, and the noise occurs then, and, so it seems, only when the clutch fork is sagging at the pivot.  Sometimes it doesn't sag, and there is no noise.  Random. (I hear the noise it when the car is in neutral.  I don't know if it happens when the car is in gear and moving.) 

[Darbone85737]

I would bet it is the throwout bearing.  I just replaced the one in my car.

[DonaldSmith]

Yep,the throwout bearing is bad.  I got the fork and the bearing assembly out today, and found that the bearing feels lumpy. Si I took the bearing, fork and pivot to a hole-in-the-wall repair place.  

 

You know the type of place, wood-paneled office-waiting area, parts strewn all over the place, cars strewn in the back lot, the phones jumping - my kind of place.

 

The fork and pivot are good, no worries there.  The bearing si bad, so the man will get a new bearing Monday or so, and press it on.

 

So all my work pulling the trans is vindicated.  I found the problem and it's getting fixed.   I'm on schedule for the convention in mid-July.