Fastback Posted March 13, 2014 Report Share Posted March 13, 2014 Hi Guys. I haven't posted in ages, but have been watching from the sideline. Good to see you all still having fun. I got a Langdon dizzy (38-7283) and just can't get it into the block. I can feel a very slight lip inside the dizzy hole in the block and wonder if I have a poorly machined black. Could this be the issue, or is there a trick to getting the Langdon in? The original dizzy just slides right in. The other question is the vacuum chamber on the outside of the Landon dizzy sits way lower than on the original dizzy, and seems to either hit the block, or get tangled with the oil lines (external bypass oil filter) etc. Whats the deal here, do you have to point the vacuum side of the dizzy down toward the ground ? Welcome any comments as to what I am doing wrong here. Thanks Fastback New Zealand. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martybose Posted March 13, 2014 Report Share Posted March 13, 2014 You might want to check to see if you have the pinch-bolted plate set at the right height by comparing the distance to the end of the shaft with your original distributor. I didn't have any problem installing mine. As far as the vacuum can, I'd just loosen the pinchbolt and turn it around to the front of the block, then identify where the new number 1 plug is. As I recall, mine is towards the front of the block at about 10 O'clock. Marty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Coatney Posted March 13, 2014 Report Share Posted March 13, 2014 I suggest you contact the engineer Tom Langdon as he knows more than anybody about these distributors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fastback Posted March 14, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 14, 2014 Sorry for the delay in responding, no sooner posted this than I had to leave the office for the morning. Thanks for your posts. I can't locate the dizzy into position even without the pinch bolt set on it, it just won't slide in enough for the tang to engage. If anyone can post up a pic of their HEI in place that might help. I will have another try over the weekend, if not then take some photos and call Tom might be the best option. The fitting instructions talk of inserting the dizzy when 3 and 4 cylinders are at 1/2 stroke (or something similar) I don't quite understand why this is required. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TodFitch Posted March 14, 2014 Report Share Posted March 14, 2014 Sorry for the delay in responding, no sooner posted this than I had to leave the office for the morning. Thanks for your posts. I can't locate the dizzy into position even without the pinch bolt set on it, it just won't slide in enough for the tang to engage. If anyone can post up a pic of their HEI in place that might help. I will have another try over the weekend, if not then take some photos and call Tom might be the best option. The fitting instructions talk of inserting the dizzy when 3 and 4 cylinders are at 1/2 stroke (or something similar) I don't quite understand why this is required. Is this a 25" long block? If so the crank has to be in a set position as there is no enough room between the counterweights for the head of the distributor shaft to fit it. The shaft should have a narrow section where to clear the counterweights when everything is correctly assembled. I think Don Coatney has a photo or diagram showing this. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Coatney Posted March 14, 2014 Report Share Posted March 14, 2014 Here is a picture of the undercut shaft. I don't know if Langdon distributors have such an undercut. On my 25" block I simply spin the engine to close to TDC whenever I remove or replace the distributor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fastback Posted March 14, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 14, 2014 Thanks for your info guys. No not a 25" long block, just your common garden variety 218 flattie. I have removed the round bush off the HEI (with the spring pin through it into the shaft) and given it a shave, and chamfered the leading edge, this seems to allow it to drop a little further into the block, so that at least the tang engages. The vacuum advance in the dizzy is still in the way, against the dipstick on the right and a copper drain tap on the left. I guess I will pull that drain tap which sits proud of the block by about 1 inch and put in a plug instead. I hope this works because the only other way this thing will sit is with the vacuum unit pointing at the road .... and that ain't so good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papajohn Posted March 14, 2014 Report Share Posted March 14, 2014 I was putting my Langdon distributor in the other night and had the same vacuum canister issue. Turns out, he included a photo that shows the HEI canister pointing downward. So it does not point in the same direction as stock. Mine drops right in, only thing missing was the O-ring. Tom offered to send me one, but i found one in the plumbing aisle at Lowes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fastback Posted March 14, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 14, 2014 Thanks Papajohn I guess the vacuum can does hang down, looks odd when in that position. It would be interesting to know if that is where everyone else ended up with their HEI positioned in this way. Fastback NZ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conroe Powdercoating Posted March 14, 2014 Report Share Posted March 14, 2014 vacuum can orientation doesnt matter, just make sure to have it where you have enough swing room to set the timing properly and also to re-orientate the #1 wire on the cap to the new location. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Coatney Posted March 14, 2014 Report Share Posted March 14, 2014 to re-orientate the #1 wire on the cap to the new location. That may be true on a shiverlay. But on a Mopar the only way the rotor position can change is if the oil pump index is altered. Distributor only goes in two ways. Right on or 180 degrees out. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conroe Powdercoating Posted March 14, 2014 Report Share Posted March 14, 2014 ^^ correct sir, I stand corrected Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ194950 Posted March 14, 2014 Report Share Posted March 14, 2014 (edited) OK, lets say that installing this new dist. and putting the vac. advance were it fits And you want to retain the factory positions of the plug wires per repair manuel that the pump cannot be removed and turned to match the slot and the dist. tang to match. Will there be a crank interference problem on the install? ON this motor only or all mopar flat 6's? Tks Doug Edited March 14, 2014 by DJ194950 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Coatney Posted March 14, 2014 Report Share Posted March 14, 2014 On my long block Desoto engine the distributor cannot be removed or installed unless the timing mark is at or near TDC due to interference with the #3 piston skirt. I don't think this is an issue on the short block engines. I don't know if the Langdon distributer is setup the same as the Mopar distributor in regards to the tang/breaker cam orientation. However if you understand how things work the engine can be made to run great no matter how the oil pump is installed. The factory setting of the number one plug wire going to the 7:00 O-clock position is done only to make it easier for the field mechanics to do a tune up. As an example if when the engine is at TDC the rotor points to 12:00 O-clock simply orientate the plug wires starting with #1 at the noon position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fastback Posted March 15, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 15, 2014 Hi All. In and running, a little rough but I just wanted it to run before I quit for the night. I will set the advance tomorrow and then road test. Apart from slight challenge getting the dizzy into the block (perhaps poor machining on my block) the rest of it is easy, and the unit seems to run quite nicely. Many thanks guys I appreciate your help. One final question, at the tang end of the dizzy shaft, Mr Langdon appears to have "glued" on a collar to thicken the end of the dizzy shaft immediately up from the tang ..... what's the deal with this ??. Fastback NZ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Coatney Posted March 15, 2014 Report Share Posted March 15, 2014 I suspect the tang itself is glued on. The distributor was originally to shiverlay with a gear not a tang. I have a friend who installed one of these distributors several years ago. He had a problem with severe wobble in the shaft. If I recall he had to send the distributor back for replacement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg g Posted March 15, 2014 Report Share Posted March 15, 2014 (edited) I don,t understand why you are blaming the block for the fitment problem. After all the original part fit correctly did it not? So then you get a piece from another corporation that has been modified in several ways, and wonder why it doesn't just drop in! My first suspect would be the foreign piece. Will you blame the engine if you can't get it timed or it doesn't run smoothly,there is a miss or it doesn't start right? Edited March 15, 2014 by greg g 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fastback Posted March 16, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2014 I don,t understand why you are blaming the block for the fitment problem. After all the original part fit correctly did it not? So then you get a piece from another corporation that has been modified in several ways, and wonder why it doesn't just drop in! My first suspect would be the foreign piece. Will you blame the engine if you can't get it timed or it doesn't run smoothly,there is a miss or it doesn't start right? Hi Greg. I can feel a ridge about 1/2 way down the channel, which seems odd. And yes I accept it is an aftermarket product made to different tolerances. However given I can find no other comments about the difficulty in sliding the dizzy into position I have assumed that this ridge is the issue. No I won't blame the engine if there is a miss or doesn't start right as these issues were not present prior to changing the dizzy therefore this would be an illogical and irrational assumption. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgeb4ya Posted March 16, 2014 Report Share Posted March 16, 2014 (edited) A lot of after market parts are just that-poor fit, poor quality and do not work and function as good as the original factory engineered parts. Factory parts work well if maintained properly. Bob Edited March 16, 2014 by Dodgeb4ya 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fastback Posted March 16, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2014 Finished this project off tonight, set up the advance went for a road test. Wow !!!. With the old dizzy it ran fine, started easy, idled smooth ran good. But with the HEI dizzy in it that engine pulls like a schoolboy! The flattie actually puts out horses like I never knew it could. And it still starts and idles as well as it did before. For me the HEI works, I am a happy camper. Again many thanks for your comments and suggestions. Fastback NZ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andydodge Posted March 16, 2014 Report Share Posted March 16, 2014 Fastback, admittedly mine was a stock 1941 23" 201 Plymouth engine but I had no trouble installing the Langdon HEI dissy, fitted straight in, made a huge difference as you have remarked on and starting was much better.....this is the only pic I could find of the dissy installed and as I sold the car 12 mths ago no chance to get another, anyway whilst the Langdon HEI does have some critics I'll happily chuck my Oz 2 cents in and defend it......btw welcome to the best Mopar forum around, these are a great bunch of guys........regards from West Island........lol.........andyd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Coatney Posted March 16, 2014 Report Share Posted March 16, 2014 Back in the day shoddy repair shops would install a throttle return spring with less tension than the original and charge the customer for a full tune up. The car owner would be amazed at how much better the engine ran because it felt like it went faster with less foot pressure. In other words the sensation of running better was all in there head. Ever notice how much better any car runs after a wash and wax job? When ever a change is made or something is done the sensation of running better kicks in. I am still waiting on someone to produce dynamometer results in a controlled environment to prove that the engine horsepower actually increases by use of a HEI distributor. I run a dual point distributor in my car. I can prove that the coil saturation or dwell time increases with this setup but I cannot prove any horsepower increase. With this setup I get the benefit of extended point life and should I have a set of points fail while on the road I can quickly make the change to run on the second set of points. The only benefit I see with an HEI distributor that has no wear parts is once the timing is set no more maintenance is required until something fails and the distributor must be removed. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conroe Powdercoating Posted March 16, 2014 Report Share Posted March 16, 2014 (edited) I would definitely say there is a non arguable amount of horsepower to be made using a system of better/hotter spark and duration than over just having a stock set of points, condenser and factory coil. If it wasnt so, there wouldnt be race cars of all types and teams that are proven to spend big money looking for EACH individual horsepower using HEI or better similar computerized systems. I'd also bet you couldnt find a set of points at the drag strip even to save your life, the change was made for a reason, better technology, fact. Edited March 16, 2014 by Conroe Powdercoating Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plymouthy Adams Posted March 16, 2014 Report Share Posted March 16, 2014 (edited) Fastback, on 16 Mar 2014 - 02:28 AM, said:Fastback, on 16 Mar 2014 - 02:28 AM, said: Finished this project off tonight, set up the advance went for a road test. Wow !!!. With the old dizzy it ran fine, started easy, idled smooth ran good. But with the HEI dizzy in it that engine pulls like a schoolboy! The flattie actually puts out horses like I never knew it could. And it still starts and idles as well as it did before. For me the HEI works, I am a happy camper. Again many thanks for your comments and suggestions. Fastback NZ with all the questions asked, advice given and statements of poor block machining..I see nothing that reveals the actual problem and your solution.....while you desperately was seeking advice from those that "have been there" you are now a survivor with viable input to share.... Edited March 16, 2014 by Plymouthy Adams 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Coatney Posted March 16, 2014 Report Share Posted March 16, 2014 I would definitely say there is a non arguable amount of horsepower to be made using a system of better/hotter spark and duration than over just having a stock set of points, condenser and factory coil. If it wasnt so, there wouldnt be race cars of all types and teams that are proven to spend big money looking for EACH individual horsepower using HEI or better similar computerized systems. I'd also bet you couldnt find a set of points at the drag strip even to save your life, the change was made for a reason, better technology, fact. Everything you say is true on a full race engine that spins close to ten grand with a very high compression ratio and built to the hilt. However we are talking about a Mopar flathead 6 that spins a lot less than 5 grand with a compression ratio less than 7/1 and produces somewhere around 100 HP in stock form. As I said I am waiting on dyno reports under controlled conditions to show a HP comparison on the same Mopar flathead 6 cylinder engine using a stock distributor verses a HEI. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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