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Official George Asche 265 Hot Rod Flathead Thread


55 Fargo

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Who has had the privilege to meet George and go for a ride in His 265 hotrod flattie. I believe Coatney has, anybody else?

I have read that it is quite a snappy little machine, how much more jam would it have over stock.

I have spoken to George once some years ago, and enjoyed the conversation, I know He is getting up there in the years....

Edited by Fargos-Go-Far
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Would really like to hear from those who have met George, and who have had a drive in the hopped up 265. Just interested in how much more punch that car has with all of his mods done to it...

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Fred, Why don't you simply visit Venus and take a ride. Then you can report your first hand experience.

Hi Don, tell you what if you pay the airfare, will book the time off, or how about I meet you there, make a day of it........LOL

To be honest the word on the street is George is getting up there, not sure He is receiving visits or not. I am sure if He is feeling well these days, He would be open to phone calls and  visits. PS you have been there, anything you want to report on your first hand experience...

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I have paid a visit to George Asche twice in 2013. I need not say more as I have reported both visits on this forum first hand already. What is it that you want to know?

Okay, glad you were able to visit George, and He is still well enough to receive visitors.

My curiosity lately  involves those who have hopped up 251 and 265 engines, my question is this, and will search out your threads later, here is the ?, how much more punch does George's hopped 265 move his car, as compared to what a stocker would do. In other words, is it more  inline with lower hp V6 and V8 power? The big question, is Georges 265 got more guts than your hopped up 251 Don?

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It may or may not have more guts? Need a dynamometer to measure the tape. As stated in a different thread earlier the sound of dual exhaust and the "cool" factor of multiple carburetors may count more than actual performance. Perhaps others will chime in to better answer your question.

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It may or may not have more guts? Need a dynamometer to measure the tape. As stated in a different thread earlier the sound of dual exhaust and the "cool" factor of multiple carburetors may count more than actual performance. Perhaps others will chime in to better answer your question.

Don, i have seen videos of your car, of course it sounds great and appeared to go well on the way to Sonic Burger. I also recall the grin on Norm and Mary Milliners Faces, riding in your car. 

I also figure if you have added 30-40 hp in your engine, she must have some more punch than my stock 251 that's for sure....

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At 3280 RPM's my 56 230 with shaved head, dual carbs and single exhuat puts 127 HP to the rear wheels on a chassis dyno.  Factory for that engine stock was 125HP at 3600 at the flywheel.  Figure a 20% driveline friction lose and that would put the stock rear wheel hp at 100.  So my mods made up for drive line lose plus a bit more, and I still have 320 Rpm in the bank.  Putting the 20% drive line loss back on my numbers would put it at 150 HP at the flywheel at 3280.  Is there a difference?  my seat of the pants tells me yes in acceleration and in pulling hills, especially compared to the original 218 which was rated at 97 and put 77 hp to the rear wheels assuming the same loss factor.  In the bargain I also increased over the road gas mileage by 2.5 MPG.

 

How is this for a rule of thumb, a hotted up 201 is like a stock 218, a hoted up 218 is like a stock 230, and a hotted up 230 is a bit better than a stock 251, so take the equation where it might go for a hoted up 251 and a hotted 265.  The funny part is the Chrysler/Desoto 6 whether 251 or 265 was never rated at more than 116 HP but the 2bbl 230 showed 132 in 56/7.  Chrysler engineering  go figure.......

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I have been to Georges "house of speed" about 5 time over the years. I have ridden in his both of his cars. Its all relative. They run great and when you get know George, he is the ultimate tinkerer. I have three motors with his stuff, two of his overdrive transmissions with his fast second gear set up. Both cars run completely different.

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At 3280 RPM's my 56 230 with shaved head, dual carbs and single exhuat puts 127 HP to the rear wheels on a chassis dyno.  Factory for that engine stock was 125HP at 3600 at the flywheel.  Figure a 20% driveline friction lose and that would put the stock rear wheel hp at 100.  So my mods made up for drive line lose plus a bit more, and I still have 320 Rpm in the bank.  Putting the 20% drive line loss back on my numbers would put it at 150 HP at the flywheel at 3280.  Is there a difference?  my seat of the pants tells me yes in acceleration and in pulling hills, especially compared to the original 218 which was rated at 97 and put 77 hp to the rear wheels assuming the same loss factor.  In the bargain I also increased over the road gas mileage by 2.5 MPG.

 

How is this for a rule of thumb, a hotted up 201 is like a stock 218, a hoted up 218 is like a stock 230, and a hotted up 230 is a bit better than a stock 251, so take the equation where it might go for a hoted up 251 and a hotted 265.  The funny part is the Chrysler/Desoto 6 whether 251 or 265 was never rated at more than 116 HP but the 2bbl 230 showed 132 in 56/7.  Chrysler engineering  go figure.......

Thanx Greg, good splainin. I realize a lot  of the hop ups are both pleasing to the eyes and ears. I was just wondering what these hopped engines performed like in reality.

The 251 engines in Canadian Dodge and Fargo trucks rate at 120hp, so not sure what exactly was done to accomplish the extra 4 hp.

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Keep in mind that most often, the factory numbers are just that: numbers. You/they can look at a dyno sheet and pick the hp or torque numbers from where ever you want from the curve. In fact, this was common in the 70's when the insurance industry started making noise about excessive hp output so the numbers were 'cherry-picked'. This is also why the industry changed to 'net' ratings; to get lower numbers.

 

Basic hot-rodding rules say things like:

...if you increase compression you will increase hp/tq. If you increase valve lift and duration you will increase hp/tq. If you provide better flowing intake/exhaust you will increase hp/tq. These changes have been tested over and again during the last 70 years or so and they work. The factory builds engines that are suited to mass production for a wide variety of potential buyers all balanced by the bean-counters so there are many compromises to be found. You get to tailor your engine to your needs.

So, essentially, if you make improvements, you will gain something. However, you may not get a 'seat-of-the-pants' improvement unless you have a transmission that can effectively transmit this new found power. A manual trans will do it, an M5...not so much.

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Reading a few posts this morning on his OD, and don't quite understand how it works.  Is this something that can be bolted on, or is it a whole new transmission?  Just had my three speed rebuilt,and wife just commented that car seems to rev high at 55 mph.  

Thanks Greg

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Reading a few posts this morning on his OD, and don't quite understand how it works.  Is this something that can be bolted on, or is it a whole new transmission?  Just had my three speed rebuilt,and wife just commented that car seems to rev high at 55 mph.  

Thanks Greg

Hi Greg, there are 2 OD trans, an early model R7 and the sought after R10. yes it is a complete trans, but will bolt right up for you, then you need to do some simple wiring for engaging OD and kickdown.

What are you running now, use this website to determine your RPM at 55 mph.  http://www.4lo.com/4LoCalc.htm

The Wife will not be used to these older engines, higher revving, noisy engine cooling fans etc.

If you have a 3.9 diff and 27 inch round tires, you will be crankin pretty good rpm at 55 mph.

Others have installed higher diff gears like 3.73s and taller rear tires, or installing later model diffs with 3.55 gears, they all make a difference...

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Thanks Fargo that is what I thought.  Trying to figure out what gears I'm running.  Have a brand new flat head and three speed tranny, so gonna live with the whinning.  Nothing a little more insulation won't fix. 

 

Greg

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I have had the opportunity talking to George several times in the past and have found out that he is a man that loves

Mopars. I take his knowledge with great pride. I have considered doing what he has suggested for me to do to my 218

flathead to ease the wind in the engine going 55 or 60 down the road. I have purchased a overdrive transmission from him but have yet to install for my 48 coupe. This man has great knowledge that needs to be

learned by all of us. I need him to stay around a lot longer for me.

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II have had the opportunity talking to George several times in the past and have found out that he is a man that lovesMopars. I take his knowledge with great pride. I have considered doing what he has suggested for me to do to my 218flathead to ease the wind in the engine going 55 or 60 down the road. I have purchased a overdrive transmission from him but have yet to install for my 48 coupe. This man has great knowledge that needs to belearned by all of us. I need him to stay around a lot longer for me.

Sounds like someone I need to talk to as I know so little. Do you mind me asking approximately how much one of his OD trans run?

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At 3280 RPM's my 56 230 with shaved head, dual carbs and single exhuat puts 127 HP to the rear wheels on a chassis dyno.

Is that with the stock cam and valves?

 

Do you still run the Fluid Drive trans?

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Yes stock cam and valves, slightly lightened flywheel.  Ask Mark Aubuchon about the efficacy of my engine compared to his 218 with basically the same mods.  Especially on those hilly roads in Northeast Vermont.  No fluid drive here.

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  • 4 weeks later...

My father and I made the 4 hour trip to Venus and spent a few hours with George today.  I'm getting closer to  transforming my 1947 237 engine in to a dual carb 265.  George was gracious enough to give us the "nickel" tour which not only included merchandise but some of his past and current projects.  It was a day spent well, with one of the nicest gentleman there is. 

 

Rob

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