Don Coatney Posted January 8, 2014 Report Share Posted January 8, 2014 Well, we're dealing with mid-size stuff, ferries and tugboats and such. A lot of them are both high torque and high horsepower; they need the grunt to get going, and horsepower to stay there. Typically 2000-4000 HP each, 2 to 4 engines (plus generators and more). Most are not direct drive, as the engines run in the 2000+ RPM range with props maybe a quarter of that. Tugboats maybe 10-12 knot max, but with bollard pull strength of 40-50 tons of force. The four engine catamaran ferries can run 40+ knots, very spectacular. Some of them used to be gas turbine-powered water jets, but all have been converted to diesel/prop boats over time. Even with the ever-increasing pollution controls (the SF Bay has the tightest specs in the country) the engine builders keep coming up with more powerful diesel engines, with some of the trickier ones approaching 1 HP per ci. Marty Thanks Marty, very interesting and educational. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lumpy Posted January 18, 2014 Report Share Posted January 18, 2014 Just some thoughts. I have considered a turbo, but it would be a low boost...I've always thought that the turbo would kick in about the time a flathead ran out of steam, and give it a bit more rpm. I'd only be looking for moderate gains, if I did that...not rod bending big gains. It does seem like no matter how much more HP you got out of the flat six, it's not going to be enough. But, just how much is enough. Unless I missed it, I did not see a target HP gain you are looking for. I'm one who is very satisfied with the power output of my 230. I did put dual B&B carbs on it, off 198 slant sixes, and milled my head for a 7.0:1 compression. These days, when everyone with a cell-phone is a snitch, you really can't have much of a speed contest, on the street with other cars...so I kind of miss the point of large HP increases, or V8 engines. If I ever went to a modern engine, and that would be one giant if, I really think the Jeep six would be the way to go. I'm sure the radiator could be moved forward enough, or a custom radiator built. I think that would be the "best" modern engine. And, it's power could be increased quite substantially, if you really do need power for power's sake. If I ever swapped engines, and this is another giant if, I think I'd go with the Chrysler straight eight, run three carbs on it, make sure I had 7.0:1 compression and call it good at that. The one last mod that I'd really like to make to my '48, that I think it could really use, is an overdrive unit behind the trans, which would preserve my three-on-the-tree. Don't really see a need for more power. But that's just me. I kind of think that any flathead engine has more wow appeal than any modern engine. On steering, I think I've missed something there too. My car steers quite nice, my 100 pound wife can drive it, (although she rarely does) but it's in very good condition. Are you in need of a front end rebuild rather than new steering? Just some thoughts. ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Horne Posted January 19, 2014 Report Share Posted January 19, 2014 Lumpy, My 38 Plymouth has 80Hp, runs good, easy to drive and steer, fun to drive. I have been considering my 98 Jeep inline engine for my next project, 37 Plymouth. This engine has 190HP, has an automatic trans behind it also. My Jeeps are about the same weight as my Plymouths, so 190Hp would be very much fun to drive, but for someone looking for more power to tow much weight, the Jeep inline would not have enough power. I pull small trailers around with my Jeeps, with firewood, brush, etc., but that is about it..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knuckleharley Posted January 19, 2014 Report Share Posted January 19, 2014 Personally I'd put a stroker B-block (chosen because a 383/400 B-block is easier to fit than a 440), and it is easy to get almost 500 ci with off-the-shelf parts) with a mild tune and a Torqueflite in it, and cruise up the mountains with no worries. Marty No kidding. I used to have a 70 Ford F-250 crew cab with a stock 2brl 383 in it out of a 69 Polara,and could pull a car trailer with it and forget I had anything behind me. That starter sound used to really freak people out,too. To me that was worth bonus points. Sold the F-250,but still have the 383/727. Saving it for the day I have something big enough to need it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lumpy Posted January 19, 2014 Report Share Posted January 19, 2014 That's funny that you have a 98 Jeep...that's what mine is. I've had it for ten years or so, and that's one of the reasons that if I had to change engines, or "had" to have a modern engine, that Jeep six would be my first consideration. I'm very impressed with the Jeep six. I agree it wouldn't be the best choice for a heavy hauler...I was thinking more of a nice driver. But again, I for one am perfectly satisfied with my 230, as I am with the way the car handles/steers/drives. But, my '48 is in very nice mechanical condition. Not much interior to speak of, and still in primer...but, I love it, and love to drive it. Certainly the last thing I'd want in it is a V8, although I can appreciate those cars to some extent too. I guess that when I want power, or want to go fast, I can ride one of my motorcycles, or take my '72 360 Dart for a spin. My '48, "Lumpy Lou", is more of a time machine experience for me. !!! Well...all things considered I'm not sure if doing strange and extensive mods to a nice classic flathead Plymouth or Dodge, changing intakes into exhaust, or visa versa, or putting any kind of V8 into it, in order to make it into a heavy tow-vehicle is the hot ticket. Meaning no offense to the original poster. Really a 50's something car, perhaps with an early hemi would be a better project. ?? ken 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plymouthy Adams Posted January 19, 2014 Report Share Posted January 19, 2014 guess what...when the factory put the V8 in.,.they also did it alongside continued use of the L6 and early hemi would be my last choice of alternative power...time, money and power from the stock retrofit would make it quite the underdog...granted they are smooth but really to me no greater benefit given the cost to rebuild one of these engines puts in was up on my DO NOT DO list. I have yet to change the power in a nice running L6 car..that is why I do not buy my cars with running drivetrains...chunking them suckers like last weeks fish is so easy for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lumpy Posted January 19, 2014 Report Share Posted January 19, 2014 Oh I agree...I was thinking more of a mid-fifties car as far as putting in a V8 in order to tow Airstreams at 75mph up a 45% grade. The early Hemi is one big and heavy lump of iron. It is certainly a monumental task to actually use one, unless it's in a car where it belonged in the first place. As mentioned, the flathead six fits me to a "T". 7.0:1 compression and dual carbs makes me happy. !!! And I think they have great "wow" appeal, I'd much prefer to look at, and check out a flathead six, eight, or even a Ferd flathead eight in someone's car, than a modern V8, although I have to admit I might have to look more than twice at an early hemi. ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricky Luke Posted January 20, 2014 Report Share Posted January 20, 2014 (edited) The real winner would be getting ahold of one of the Aussie hemi inline 6….. No good - way longer than the Chysler 25" motor. I've looked ... Rick Edited January 20, 2014 by Ricky Luke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lumpy Posted January 20, 2014 Report Share Posted January 20, 2014 I've always dreamed about putting a Chrysler Straight Eight in my D24, which is quite a bit longer, and it looks to me like there's room to move the radiator forward, or use a radiator which could be mounted further forward. The main problem with that to my mind would be finding a good engine, rebuilding it, and all that. I don't see the fabrication required to fit a longer engine as that huge. But...I've never tried it either! But again, my 230 makes me happy....which is actually a Chrysler "ACE" marine engine. ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob westphal Posted January 20, 2014 Report Share Posted January 20, 2014 James, No one has suggested the simplest conversion around. That is installing a slant six like i did in my P-15 coupe. These engines are rated at 145 hp. If you want more power, there are a miriad of hop up componets on the market including turbo kits. There is no chopping up the inner fenders or firewall. You could use the rack and pinion that has already been suggested. Many slant six cars already had power steering so the donor car could supply almost everything you would need. I paid $350 for my donor engine/904 automatic in great condition. Go to http://www.cascadepacificplymouth.org/ to see what I did. bob 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Elder Posted January 20, 2014 Report Share Posted January 20, 2014 I've always dreamed about putting a Chrysler Straight Eight in my D24, which is quite a bit longer, and it looks to me like there's room to move the radiator forward, or use a radiator which could be mounted further forward. The main problem with that to my mind would be finding a good engine, rebuilding it, and all that. I don't see the fabrication required to fit a longer engine as that huge. But...I've never tried it either! But again, my 230 makes me happy....which is actually a Chrysler "ACE" marine engine. ken You would have the 2 rear cylinders in your lap.......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lumpy Posted January 20, 2014 Report Share Posted January 20, 2014 I agree, the slant six would be a fine choice, perhaps the best. ? I think I'd prefer to adapt it to the manual trans, and keep my three on the tree, but I'm sure the 904 works great. Good point...just modify the firewall, move the engine and transmission back, and use the #8 cylinder as a coffee cup warmer. Perfect! ken 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knuckleharley Posted January 20, 2014 Report Share Posted January 20, 2014 Oh I agree...I was thinking more of a mid-fifties car as far as putting in a V8 in order to tow Airstreams at 75mph up a 45% grade. The early Hemi is one big and heavy lump of iron. It is certainly a monumental task to actually use one, unless it's in a car where it belonged in the first place.<< Depends on which early hemi you are talking about. The 50's Dodge and DeSoto hemi's are roughly the same weight as a 350 Chevy. If you are interested in knowing,I can go out to my shop tomorrow and measure one (1955 291 DeSoto) to tell you how long it is,but it doesn't look overly wrong. Plus,unlike the Chrysler,the Dodge and DeSoto hemi's don't have the bellhousings built into the back of the block. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plymouthy Adams Posted January 21, 2014 Report Share Posted January 21, 2014 (edited) I think it is time for the forum to sit back and await for more input from James as to if or if not he has chosen any one direction of attack..he has a lot to digest and further, he has not signed on in the last 18 days... Edited January 21, 2014 by Plymouthy Adams Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Elder Posted January 30, 2014 Report Share Posted January 30, 2014 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andydodge Posted January 30, 2014 Report Share Posted January 30, 2014 Am quite impressed with that turbo flathead..........neat setup......andyd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Elder Posted January 30, 2014 Report Share Posted January 30, 2014 The 3 carbies look neat, but I wonder how it would run with a TBI from a 4.3 or something similar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg g Posted January 30, 2014 Report Share Posted January 30, 2014 any one know what engine that is, doesn't look MOPAR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Elder Posted January 30, 2014 Report Share Posted January 30, 2014 starter is on passenger side........so not a chrysler or a hudson......rambler? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daliant. Posted January 30, 2014 Report Share Posted January 30, 2014 It's a Ford 226 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niel Hoback Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 That guy is living dangerously revving a ford like that while standing next to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Elder Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 That guy is living dangerously revving a ford like that while standing next to it. At 1;08 the belt flies off....see him flinch and then turn and grin a little. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niel Hoback Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 He's lucky, my furd six poked a rod out the side of the block and it wasn't even trying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plymouthy Adams Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 the belt was extremely loose on start up..it should never have been run much less rev'ed in that condition.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James_Douglas Posted November 20, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 20, 2014 Hi Guys, It has been a very busy year for us. I have not had that much time to sign in. My mother-in-law was put into a nursing home and have been going down hill all year. Being she is in LA and we are in SFO it has been trying. She is in hospice now and we are placing bets if she will see her 90th Birthday in February. I have not had time to deal with the Big Desoto plans for a new engine. In addition, the '49 Convertible has a bad block. A seep or a crack in the oil gallery is allowing oil into the water jacket. Confirmed. So a new engine is in the work for that car. ****** I have made some time to talk with a couple of experts in Rack and Pinion Steering. Although there are racks in cars that are of the weight class as the 47, the geometry is not correct for to make sure there is no Bump Steer. None of the markers of custom racks make anything for a car over 3000 pounds. So, no V8 of any kind unless I want to cut the front off and I do not. There is one thing I will be checking all that said. I know of a real rich guy with a big collection in the area. He got his hand on a Desoto Taxi Project some years ago. Same basic car as the Suburban. He has a rack in it and a 383. Roy Brizio finished the project for him as this guy spends a lot of money at Brizio's over the years. I need to take a real good look at that car and see if he will take it for a ride and if I can try it and see how it drives. If the rack is "theoretically" not up to the weight classification it is supposed to be...I talked with a specialist in heat treating that suggested that the parts could be treated to handle more load. Humm..... I will keep at it. If I cannot do a rack and a V8 then I will do a fuel injected six. Perhaps with turbo and perhaps not. I will also look into Don Smith's 1970 Pontiac station wagon steering box for his suburban and see how he is doing with that swap. I hope everyone is well. James ****** Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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