TodFitch Posted December 30, 2013 Report Share Posted December 30, 2013 . So maybe we are over thinking the issue with the paired pistons and intake, and just need to look at the injector timing issue. You would be firing 3 injectors 2 X during a firing cycle instead of 6 injectors once. Don;t see the big deal there, just a matter if wiring the injectors to fire at the proper time depending on which of the pairs is at or near the prime spot in the intake valve's cycle Basically the nozzles are just an orifice controlled by a magnetic switch. They sit waiting with pressurized fuel behind them till told when and how long to open. Opening them and closing them once or twice each shouldn't be a big deal. Take a look at Jeep 4.0 engine as a system donor. As the displacement of the engines is very close, the nozzles would likely even be sized very close to what you need. Then just figure out how to open each of three installed injector nozzles twice during a firing cycle. You would need the air flow sensor and the throttle position sensor and the o2 sensor input for the computor to make the mixture adjustments but the firing of the injector pulses should be the easy part. Why not install two injectors on the siamesed ports? Means you'd have all six installed and wouldn't need to worry about changing any of the injector logic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plymouthy Adams Posted December 30, 2013 Report Share Posted December 30, 2013 put six on each side... http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2012-Ferrari-FF-V12-GDI-Engine-8k-miles-/131081624060?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item1e8512d9fc#ht_748wt_1291 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayfarer Posted December 30, 2013 Report Share Posted December 30, 2013 Interesting topic for sure. If low-moderate power is the bottom line then why not swap for an L8? Last time I checked, more cubes = more torque. The suggestion to use a TBI eliminates all of the hassle of port injectors albeit not quite as efficient, but certainly as easy to programme and a lot easier to install. Also, keep in mind that the l6 is not a flyweight. You could easily install a 440 and not notice the weight difference. I find it interesting that you balk at a frame clip due to keeping it 'original' but I cannot ignore/forget that you were planning to install a shiverlay. Getting a modern feeling, steering, and driving ifs will require some sacrifices to made in terms of making 'it ' fit. Yes, the oem design is quite good for the time, but if you feel like you might be pushing the limits, or, have concerns about safely and/or reliability, then do a proper upgrade. I will echo the Jag IFS swap. The 'usual' donors are the pre-FJ40 series (mid year 1986) and they have a curb weight of about 3800lbs. Being a 5-pass sedan it is obviously designed for an additional 800lbs and still be roadworthy. The built-in safety factor likely accommodates another 1k. A friend is currently using a 2wd Dakota ifs in a swap/clip for a PilotHouse project and it is a very neat and tidy package. Some of the Dakota trucks weigh well in excess of 4000lbs. The Crown Vic was mentioned and is a nice 'bolt-in' but it is extremely wide; wms to wms is right at 65". You might even consider something along the lines of a mid/late 70's Chrysler T&C. Yes, frame mods would be required for many upgrades. Your car and your money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcmiller Posted December 30, 2013 Report Share Posted December 30, 2013 The Suburban is listed as just 4,012 pounds, similar to some other vehicle's listed here. It sounds like some of the suggested engine swaps would get you below 4,000. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tones52 Posted December 31, 2013 Report Share Posted December 31, 2013 Hi James If your Desoto is the one that Don pictured in his post, then it is an absolute beauty. I also found the video on the electric power steering boost fascinating. Am I right in that it would look to be a $2k+ unit that would likely require a 12 volt conversion? I remember reading on the HAMB a thread on getting more power out of the Mopar flathead 6 and it lead to this effort on the Studebaker flathead with a turbo http://turbostude.com/ Looking forward to the direction that you'll take with this and updates on your Airstream adventures. Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg g Posted December 31, 2013 Report Share Posted December 31, 2013 for a reference, in the 30's Graham Paiges ran a 217 cu in flathead 6. Stock HP at 6,4 to 1 Cr was 91. They had a centrifugal supercharger available with a pull through single bbl. carb. The charger operated at about 7 lbs of boost, and upped HP to 116. Thats about 27% increase. Pretty good return for what would be considered low boost pressure. In 41 they boosted CR to 6.7 and Hp went to 125. Seems you could get the DeS engine to about 140 with similar boost levels and no carbueration changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Shepard Posted January 2, 2014 Report Share Posted January 2, 2014 Dodge is coming out with a new V6 diesel in their 1/2 ton PU's for 2014. It's the Motor Trend Truck of the Year. With enough money you could probably snag one... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James_Douglas Posted January 2, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2014 just going to make a passing comment here and let it go at that...but there are over the road tractor (semi haulers) now equipped with rack and pinion... I did look into that as a possibility. The problem is the old bump steer. The inside ball sockets of a rack must be in the exact "right spot" and the pinion also needs to be close to the "right" spot to fit. None of the larger new truck racks have the geometry that is needed. But, thanks for thinking about it as not too many people know that they are making large racks. Someone else may be working on a project where the stock dimensions may be just right for their project! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James_Douglas Posted January 2, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2014 Hi all, Thanks for all the interesting thoughts. I kind of like the idea or challenge of seeing if I can get a HP increase and more reliability-drivability using the stock block as a base. I was up in Santa Rosa, CA and ran across a local motor head and we talked about the issues. One thought was to talk to Earl Edgerton about his OV head and using that in a FI-Turbo set up. I think I will check in with him and see what he has to say about one of those heads. James Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P15-D24 Posted January 2, 2014 Report Share Posted January 2, 2014 The real winner would be getting ahold of one of the Aussie hemi inline 6….. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgeb4ya Posted January 2, 2014 Report Share Posted January 2, 2014 There are two of those engines here in seattle. I know one is a 265 2BBL. They are not for sale though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbbbbb99 Posted January 2, 2014 Report Share Posted January 2, 2014 Modern Jeep 6? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Elder Posted January 2, 2014 Report Share Posted January 2, 2014 Modern Jeep 6? Really looong engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
austinsailor Posted January 2, 2014 Report Share Posted January 2, 2014 Last I heard Edgerton made 3 of the hemi heads for the 6 and that was all there'd ever be. Has that changed? Even if he's making more I'd expect it to be well over $5k. Gene 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueskies Posted January 2, 2014 Report Share Posted January 2, 2014 Might want to chat with Earl Edgerton about his fuel injected 12 port Chrysler long block flathead engine... http://www.edgyspeedshop.com/index2.html Pete 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
austinsailor Posted January 2, 2014 Report Share Posted January 2, 2014 That was a highly modified project. He cut new ports into the side of the block. Pretty radical! I've got the idea I'll take a 30" block that started with 12 ports and do the same. Problem is, besides no time, I haven't figured out enough about multi port fuel injection to know how to do it. The more I read, the more I realize how much I don't know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fstfish66 Posted January 3, 2014 Report Share Posted January 3, 2014 I did look into that as a possibility. The problem is the old bump steer. The inside ball sockets of a rack must be in the exact "right spot" and the pinion also needs to be close to the "right" spot to fit. None of the larger new truck racks have the geometry that is needed. But, thanks for thinking about it as not too many people know that they are making large racks. Someone else may be working on a project where the stock dimensions may be just right for their project! if this makes any sense,,,on my 40 coupe it uses a center steer rack,,,only thing that has to be in line to eliminate bump steer is the very long tie rods need to be at the same level as the outer tie rods,,,i dont know if any trucks use a center steer rack,,,also a full size ram truck uses a rack these days.,,,,i think a dakota or ram rack,,with a good mounting system would do the job,,,just my .02,, and as stated if thats ur desoto pictured,,,woow beautiful good luck with your decission Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plymouthy Adams Posted January 3, 2014 Report Share Posted January 3, 2014 Dakota, Ram....those are forward steer racks...he would have to flip his steering dog bones....as for bumpsteer..the problem was addressed very well in the Fatman article and how to set it up to prevent such.........the center of the rack is basically parallel with the inside lower control arm and the tie rod ends running parallel to the dog bones left to right...one would have to be driving at a very aggressive rate/manner in order to trigger excessive abnormalities.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fstfish66 Posted January 3, 2014 Report Share Posted January 3, 2014 there has to be a way to convert to a rack,,, and correct didnt think about it ram and dakota front steer,,,but they are over the 4000 pound limit they are talking about,,, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plymouthy Adams Posted January 3, 2014 Report Share Posted January 3, 2014 my 04 Dakota weights: gross vehicle weight rating (lbs) 5,400, curb weight (lbs) 3,994, gross trailer weight braked* (lbs) 4,650 and max payload (lbs) 1,410 braked means if trailer has own braking on axle...GVCW 8800 notice the curb weight is 84lbs heavier than the Desoto listed curb weight..which I found online listed to be 3910 in 7 passenger configuration Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg g Posted January 3, 2014 Report Share Posted January 3, 2014 Looks like a ram 1500 is a center mount R and P unit that should be sturdy enough for a Desoto. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James_Douglas Posted January 4, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 4, 2014 The real winner would be getting ahold of one of the Aussie hemi inline 6….. I REALLY looked into this. The basic problem would be 10 years down the road in some small town and having a engine hard part go. A long way to get parts... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plymouthy Adams Posted January 4, 2014 Report Share Posted January 4, 2014 THEY COMING...just watch your local wrecking yard/salvage vehicle dealers... http://blog.bushwacker.com/5228/news/2014-dodge-ram-1500-diesel/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Elder Posted January 4, 2014 Report Share Posted January 4, 2014 (edited) 2013 Chrysler 300 C also 4,270 lbs....you know that baby's got a nice, firm, rack! Edited January 4, 2014 by Frank Elder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knuckleharley Posted January 4, 2014 Report Share Posted January 4, 2014 Hi all, Thanks for all the interesting thoughts. I kind of like the idea or challenge of seeing if I can get a HP increase and more reliability-drivability using the stock block as a base. I was up in Santa Rosa, CA and ran across a local motor head and we talked about the issues. One thought was to talk to Earl Edgerton about his OV head and using that in a FI-Turbo set up. I think I will check in with him and see what he has to say about one of those heads. James Yeah,now THAT would be really cool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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