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Hi all .. today is my first day as a member ... I recently purchased a 1941 P12 ... I am in the middle of redoing the brakes and just sent the rear wheel cylinders to White Post .. I purchased the fronts from Kanter .. they are great  ( I pass by their store in my travels frequently) ... I have also found Andy Burnbaum to be reputable ... I would like to replace the original master cylinder with a dual for safety reasons but I cant seem to find any that are a direct conversion .. does anyone know of any available? ... if I cant find one I would like to rebuild or buy a new master but my repair manual doesn't say how to get it out ... any help with how to remove and replace the master would greatly be appreciated ... thanks ... Bob

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Jim .. I just called ECI and they don't have a dual master conversion for drum brakes ... the wheel cylinders require more fluid than any master they know of can provide ... thanks for the lead ... seems like I will have to rebuild the original ... to take my master out do I need to remove the floor board?

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When dual circuit master cylinders were 1st introduced in the mid /late 60's most US cars still only had drum brakes, I'd suggest finding a brake shop or some reference manual and do a cross reference from some late 60's cars to the 1941 Plymouth which has a master cylinder diameter of 1 & 1/4"(same from 1936 to 1941), 1942 went to 1 & 1/8th diameter.........your biggest problem might not be finding a master cylinder that is the right bore but trying to fit the master cylinder in the space where the original cylinder lives.....there ain't a lot of room there.............regards, andyd

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Welcome aboard, this is a great forum and full of information.

 

I sent my master cylinder to White Post 15-16 years ago, it has worked great since I got it back.  I have a '40 Plymouth and I didn't remove the floor boards when taking the master cylinder off.

 

Good luck with your '41 and how about some photos when you get a chance,

Bob

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Bob,

Sorry about the ECI tip. I guess the reference to the Ford MC and drum brakes in my earlier thread must have been about front discs and rear drums combination.

On your '41 you should not have to remove your front floor. The MC is located in the engine compartment under the steering column.

Jim Yergin

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no need to apologize ... any help/lead is very much appreciated ... I had to send the original rear wheel cylinders to White Post because no supplier had the proper rears for my car  1 1/4 x 1 1/8 ... replacements are available but not the correct size ... I may lean towards a new master instead of  sending it to White Post for resleeving  but my concern is that if the "new" ones that are available are really new and not rebuilt ones ... does anyone know the answer to that?

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I was not aware that anyone was making new master cylinders for 1937-41 Plymouths (Chrysler part 858889). Replacements for the 1933-36 and 1942-48 master cylinders are available.

 

If they are and you have a cross reference I'd like to add it to my database, so please send it along.

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Can any one post up some pictures of how the MC is located and mounted in the 41? I don;t get the comment regarding the volume of fluid needed by the wheel cylinders being that much greater with drums vs discs.

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Don,

Just an FYI, I spoke with Ralf today and canceled the duel master setup. Apparently this setup will not work unless you put ECI’s disk break kit in your car. I wanted to keep the stock brakes and use the duel master for safety purposes only.., but there is no solution for this type of setup.

I hope you have better luck. Ralf got a little miffed when I told him that I would rather cancel the order then work on a solution in that I preferred to be the second recipient rather then the experimental first. He responded that if he designed it you could bet your life on it. Working with engineers all these years I choose to pass on the bet.

Good luck with your setup,

Chet…

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Ok .. if a new master cylinder isn't available has anyone experienced problems rebuilding 1941 master cylinders? ... meaning, I have rebuilt many wheel cylinders and masters and I would like to rebuild the one I have but if there have been problems rebuilding them yourself I would like to know ... I believe the master and wheel cylinders were rebuilt more than 10 years ago the car had very very little use since then ,  and when I opened up the wheel cylinders they were gunked up and barely moving ... I tried to extensively clean and rebuild them by cleaning the bore with 800 wet dry paper one began to leak where it didn't leak before hand ... but because of the desire to do as much as I can, such as rebuilding as opposed to buying one that has been rebuilt by a vendor, I don't want to end up with a master that doesn't work properly or leak ... any information would be appreciated .. thanks ...Bob

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the 37-41 Chrysler/Dodge/Ply/Desoto all use the same model wagner MC.  It is better if you do remove the floor boards to get access to the master cyclinder.

There are two bolts holes on the bottom flange on the MC that bolts to a braket.  When you take out the floor boards you will get a better view of how the whole unit is installed.

 

I did rebuild my MC and I have a 39 Desoto so used the same MC that you have.  Get a kit that has the broze piston if you can.

 

Write to me I have lots of information on brakes and the various Wagner numbers for the MC and also brake cyclinders and also hoses.

The lockeheed brakes are not eay to adjust properly without the Ammco brake tool.  Refer to the Technical section on brakes with the Ammco and also the miller brake tool.  I have these tools.

 

The 39 Desoto is a kissing cousin to your car and some things are the same.

 

If you can get a NOS that would be better but they are not cheap since only a few years from 37-41 as you already know.

I live near Valley Forge, PA

Rich HArtung

desoto1939@aol.com

cell 484-431-8157

Phone 610-630-9188

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wow! what a quick reply .. I only put that up less than 5 min ago ... thanks so much for the information ... now I am inclined to rebuild the one I have .. what vendors have the brass piston?

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... I would like to replace the original master cylinder with a dual for safety reasons but I cant seem to find any that are a direct conversion .. does anyone know of any available? ...

 

if I cant find one I would like to rebuild or buy a new master but my repair manual doesn't say how to get it out ... any help with how to remove and replace the master would greatly be appreciated ... thanks ... Bob

I haven't done any measuring and direct comparisions,but I'm thinking a dual outlet master cylinder from a late 60 Ford that didn't have power brakes would be a easy one to adapt.

 

Not familiar with 41 Plymouths,but there should be a small sheet metal piece under your carpets that you can remove that will allow you easy access to your master cylinder so you can unbolt and replace it without having to put the car up on a lift.

 

No,this is not the same thing as removing the floorboards. It's just a small section designed for this purpose to be easily removable.

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Attached is some brake information for the 41 dodge taken from my EIS brake catalog

 

The 41 Dodge uses the Type K master cylinder  Brake Cylinder EW 6854, 6853  Fronts,, EW 6856, 6855 Rears

The numbers after the wheel cylinder refer to the internal bore sizes  which indicate as we call them stepdown cyclinders because of the two different sizes.  When these are resleeved they cost more because of the two sizes and insert sleeves that need to be installed and bored to the correct size.

Refer to the attached data sheets  this are the EIS numbers

 

I have this EIS catalog and a Wagner Brake catalog scanned onto CD's if anyone is interested.

Rich Hartung

Desoto1939@aol.com

Brake information 1.pdf

Brake information 2.pdf

Brake information 3.pdf

Edited by desoto1939

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Those old paper parts catalogs are worth their weight in gold.  I've got a bunch of them.  My wife recognizes their value and doesn't give me a hard time about keeping them.

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Sorry, didn't mean to post twice.  Couldn't find it (page 2), so I tried again.

Edited by Furylee2

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the 37-41 Chrysler/Dodge/Ply/Desoto all use the same model wagner MC.  It is better if you do remove the floor boards to get access to the master cyclinder.

There are two bolts holes on the bottom flange on the MC that bolts to a braket.  When you take out the floor boards you will get a better view of how the whole unit is installed.

 

I did rebuild my MC and I have a 39 Desoto so used the same MC that you have.  Get a kit that has the broze piston if you can.

 

Write to me I have lots of information on brakes and the various Wagner numbers for the MC and also brake cyclinders and also hoses.

The lockeheed brakes are not eay to adjust properly without the Ammco brake tool.  Refer to the Technical section on brakes with the Ammco and also the miller brake tool.  I have these tools.

 

The 39 Desoto is a kissing cousin to your car and some things are the same.

 

If you can get a NOS that would be better but they are not cheap since only a few years from 37-41 as you already know.

I live near Valley Forge, PA

Rich HArtung

desoto1939@aol.com

cell 484-431-8157

Phone 610-630-9188

 

There is a Miller brake tool on eBay now.  Not mine, just passing along the info.

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/321192944860?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

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