Painting 101 For A Novice Painter

[pflaming]

Question #1. Size of air compressor. #2 recommended gun. #3 literataure to buy, #4. bondo/fillers to use. #5 paint sources. #6 Other suggestions.

I''m studing painting and find it is somewhat personal preferene oriented. So. . . do I then make a dart board of choices and toss a dart?

If I paint my convertible or at least the inside/underside areas, I will use a light color, which somewhat simplifies the whole enchilada.

Others may be ready to expand their skills so please no debates, all suggestions are valid for me.

I have time on my side in that I'm retired so I can resand and repaint as required. I am also on vacation so now is a good time to do some research.

"The rains in Maine fall mainly in the plain."

[alsancle]

As I'm sure you have heard the prep work is more important than the painting.  My dad and I did ok in the backyard painting chassis and firewalls (enamel) but I doubt you will want to try to paint the body of your car.  It is definitely an art that requires a lot of practice.  The new paints (as regulated by the EPA) are a pain and getting the right air pressure, paint mix is not trivial.  Plus,  slight climiate issues in the paint booth can also caust lots of problems.

 

However, If you are adamant about trying,  I would stay away from two stage paint,  go with an enamel that takes a hardner that can be block sanded to get all the runs and blemishes out.   I believe you can still get Nitrocellulous lacquer which gives an unbelievalble finish when blocked and buffed but that is not for beginner.  

 

People may tell you that a paint boot is requried but as long as you can block and buff you can throw down water to keep the dust out (hopefully the humidity doesn't go crazy).

 

good luck.   For motivation, this car was painted in a backyard garage.

 

[Oldguy48]

I would add a proper respirator to your list (but perhaps you've already considered that).

[Don Coatney]

Many have had luck with a paint roller. Do a forum search.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yafb6X9j6E

[JerseyHarold]

It might be cost effective to do all the prep work yourself and then send the car through your local Maaco for the finish coat.  They have a spray booth (critical for a dirt-free topcoat) and the expertise to lay the paint down properly, usually for a couple of hundred dollars.  I've done this for a number of cars (old and modern) and it worked out very well.

[P15-D24]

HVLP gun (Sata of DeVilbiss)  5 hp two stage compressor, air, water  and oil fitters, regulators, masks, 1/2" hoses plus all the piping for the compressor setup ,

Make a spray booth, (vent fans). Plus electrical to run the compressor. So your already at over 2K in equipment costs. Then you have to deal with the paint, body work etc.  HVLP guns work great but require lots of clean, dry air. 

 

If you can find a booth to rent where you bring your gun you are way ahead of the game.  Do a google search of painting your own car, their are a couple good resources for first timer on the net like http://www.autobodystore.com/videos.shtml

[55 Fargo]

Question #1. Size of air compressor. #2 recommended gun. #3 literataure to buy, #4. bondo/fillers to use. #5 paint sources. #6 Other suggestions.

I''m studing painting and find it is somewhat personal preferene oriented. So. . . do I then make a dart board of choices and toss a dart?

If I paint my convertible or at least the inside/underside areas, I will use a light color, which somewhat simplifies the whole enchilada.

Others may be ready to expand their skills so please no debates, all suggestions are valid for me.

I have time on my side in that I'm retired so I can resand and repaint as required. I am also on vacation so now is a good time to do some research.

"The rains in Maine fall mainly in the plain."

Paul search around for a decent used compressor, in the 5 hp range, you can get away with less, but the spraygun must then have a lower  air volume rating.

Get a decent MSA or 3m respirator mask, preferably full face, but I have used 1/2masks all the time there are rreaonably priced, you are obviously not going tobuy an air fed mask, for home use..

You could then use an elcheapo Harbourfreight Purple gravity fed HVLP gun, and learn to shoot primer first. Then graduate to paining inner panels, and floor frames etc with a topcoat.

Do you have a 1/2 decent building you can shoot paint and primer in, you could build a temporary paint booth on the cheap, if your only going to paint the 1 or a few vehicles. I have shot primers and frame and floor paints outside, many times too.

Be on the look out at swap meets, Kijiji, Craigslist, ebay fora Binks model#7 suction feed spraygun, they are great sprayguns, were used by many production shops over the years.

Devillbiss, and others do have entry level sprayguns too.

To be honest I shot paint on my 47 Chrysler with a $25 spraygun, and it came off pretty good, a decent gun, some experience will be all that much better.

If you decide to use 2 k urethane produst, be very carefull with safety procedure, that stuff can be deadly so keep all precautions in mind.

Evercoat fillers, are great, from there basic fillers, to the gold premium fillers, to the 2 k glazes etc.

Paul go to autobodystore.com, there is tons of info and products on there for the novice.

A decent compressor you will always use, no matter if your painting or using it for tools, a sandblast cabinet, or to fill tires, buy the best you can afford and justify. The spraypaint guns, but a cheap unit and learn to spray pirmers or Rustoleum or something, get a good fell for it before trying top/finishcoats.

Trey this site for paints,and supplies, and they still sell acrylic lacquers and enamels, www.tcpglobal.com

 

Good luck Paul, there are others on here that do bodywork and shoot paint....

Edited June 22, 2013 by 55Fargo

[desoto1939]

are there any tech schools, votech or autobody tech schools that might want to take on this project.  Just a thought.

 

Rich Hartung

desoto1939@aol.com

[seabee1950]

At one time I did a pretty good business out of my small shop working on all kinds of cars, but the a real good friend of mine said why are you knocking yourself out doing that, so he had me help him do a little body work and it took a while but I started doing paint jobs and body work and even made a little money at it.

So if I were you, and I'm not I would go to your Auto Paint store ask them for the materials that you will need to do your job, read all you can read  on the subject and when you think you got it find a guy you don't realty like all that much that has a car he wants panted tell him to help you get it ready and then paint it Hey its a win win you get to try out what you think you know and you didn't screw up your own project and you really didn't lose a friend.

Or you can take it to a  Body & Paint shop pay them for what they already know and you come out with a real nice looking ride and you didn't take away from your Coffee time with the guys at the local haunt.

Just say in

And ether way we will support you, we being the mouse in my pocket

Edited June 22, 2013 by seabee1950

[48Dodger]

Get a Mentor..........learn his take on painting. Study his process. Pay him for his knowledge, buy him lunch.

 

He may sell you some of his extra equipment cheap, to help you out. When the sh*t hits the fan, he can get you  

back on track.

 

You can get it done. Nothing wrong with painting cars outside if your nieghbors are cool with it. You can rent booths on the "off days" of some of the smaller shops.

 

There are thousands of tricks you can learn from a mentor you'll never find in a book.

 

Labels are getting to be a pain in California. Most, if not all, primers will not recommend thinning. Why? They would have to include the solvent in the VOC. Anybody shooting primer is going to thin it al least 20%....but a newbie like you Paul wouldn't know that from reading.

 

Get a Mentor.

 

48D  

Edited June 25, 2013 by 48dodger

[Dave72dt]

Ask a thousand people the right way or best way to paint and you'll get a thousand different answers and they'll swear by their answers because they've heard, read or done it that way and they had success at it.  Doesn't make one way any more right or wrong than the others.  There are some basics.

 

First, Califiornia will dictate what types of paint are available for you to use. Disregard all the others.  Just because other states may have access to some types and VOC levels, doesn't mean you can get them. Brand of paint is not a big concern although you do tend to get what you pay for. Most of the big name brands have a more economical line of products that give very good results.  Line of products means, primers, reducers, topcoats and/or clears that are compatible with each other.  The paint company has done this work for you.  Follow their suggestions on application and prep.  P sheets are an invaluable source for proper prep, material use and application.

 

Gravity fed or suction type gun is personal preference and both will work.  I've used and owned both and find the for me the gravity fed has a better balance in use.  Inexpensive guns can be used.  You don't need the high dollar ones at  your current skill level.  The thicker primers will require larger tip, 1.7, 1.8 to spray well.  Color and/or clear use a smaller tip.  Here again, the P sheets will give you recommended sizes.

 

A good air compressor that can keep up to the paint gun is a must as well as a filter system  that can keep contaminates out of the air.  Too little capacity will let your paint dry on the edges while you wait for it to catch up , leading to blotchy paint, especially if doing a metallic based color.

 

Light colors will show debris in the color easier than dark colors and I find them harder to spray.  Those little bugs with stand out well against a light background.  I have proof if you're interested.   Eastwood sells  Paintucation vidieos which has some basics for most areas of bodywork if you/re interested.

[DJ194950]

48D

Even with a primer things NEED adjustments-Thinning, pressure, fan size to match area painted or primed.

An usual newbee misunderstanding- Paints usually have a recommened pressure to use, where to you check pressure? At the compressor outlet and use a 50' or more line? Needs to be checked at the gun after paint adjustments and fan are checked with gun at full open position selected!

What gun do you use? Thickness and pressures need to be adjusted for YOUR gun. The instructions are only a starting point.

 

Example- A good friend has been working on a project and could not understand why his primer coats always looked like the skin of an orange. His previous experience witha simular brand primer (5+ years ago did not have this problem on another project), well formulation change(Ca. rules) was one of his problems. He had no clue as where to check pressures, had bought a new H.F. primer gun(never tried), Strongly resisted my tries to suggest thinning (the can did'nt say to do this).

 

To end this story, after explaining all the above AND showing  him, he has finally done a much better job on the next primering.

Saves at lot of sanding if nothing else!

 

Find at least an experienced hobbyist thru clubs, asking arround even a body shop painter who he knows as an hobbiest.

Give it a try, learning this type of things can give some hastles but well worth the effort. I'm still a Hobbiest trying to keep up with the modern (Ca.) paints, as an only as I or friends need to do this. we are all cheap from necessity. Now days there does'nt seem to be such a thing, but compared to $120 per hr. localally,

it become relalitve!!

 

My friend now agrees!

 

Best to ya,

Doug

Edited June 23, 2013 by DJ194950

[55 Fargo]

Okay Paul, do some research on the web, talk with others in the"know", before making any decisions.

 

Try this website, there isa forum, with experienced individuals, 1 being Len the owner of the website and store.

www.autobodystore.com

 

I knew diddly squat about paint,primers reducer,thinners,catalysts, sprayguns, setting sprayguns, tip sizes, mxing, etc. But I did learn a lot on here and elsewhere, and I was not afraid to try, make mistakes and try again, I am still a novice, but have learned a lot, and hopefully will learn more in the future.

Others on tis forum, have learned to do body and paint, maybe not show quality, well some are show quality, but have done respectable decent paint jobs on there cars and trucks.

I hope some of you will chime in, and maybe help Paul with his quest, and make suggestions.

Now some of you cannot or will not be able to do body paint, upholstery, mechanical, you name it, but you can pay for it, Cheque writers", nothing wrong with that. I see you Paul as some who wants to learn, who enjoys learning, and is driven and willing to get results. That is evident with what you have done with your truck.

When I brought my 1947 Chrysler home in 2005 to begin it's ressurection, a longtime friend thought I was nuts, it was a real basket case, needed a lot osf metal welded in, body and paint interior you name it. You know what I welded in 90% of the new metal, I fabbed 90% of the panels, I did all of the body work, primer, blocking, filler primer, blocking wetanding, and shot on the final topcoats. I that had done very little of this before, infact a lot of things were a 1st time for me. "Necessity is the mother of invention".

Good Luck Paul, with whatever way you choose to go, having watched you with the truck project, I firmly believe you have the determination to carry this out, if you so desire.......but do research,study and practice....

[chopt50wgn]

I have been doing all my own body work and painting for over 30 years. I mentored under a friend for 2 years before he would even allow me to pick up the paint gun. He stressed prep of metal and body work immensely. He always said that he could teach me to paint in 30 minutes but to prep the car correctly it would take another year or so.

  Prep work is 95% of the job. I did my wagon last fall in epoxy primer. The materials were over $600 and in labor another 30-40 hrs. of my time.

 Painting and bodywork is not out of your reach by no means, but like everyone has said here................it will take lots of time to learn what to do and then the expense of buying all the equipment to do the job.

[pflaming]

This has been a very timely thread for me. It is apparanent that working with the mechanical part of the vehical requires knowledge. The biggest skill is how tight to get a bolt or nut and to feel that in the arm or wrist.

But to do body work is somewhat the reverse. One can have the knowledge but not have the skill. I know how to play a piano but I still can't play one. So since I'm approaching the title of octaganian I think will stay with the nuts and bolts and get help on the prep and paint. I can still do 80% of the prep which will save me a bunch of money. I have an aircompressor so with a few inexpensive tools I can paint the areas that get covered up, then bring in a pro for the 'lipstick'!

Thank you to all who have contibuted to my 'continuing' education.

[seabee1950]

I think we are just driven to doing these things by the fact we are all for the most part strapped for the cash to pay out, I only take my truck to the dealer because I have a warranty.

Years ago I had a real good friend told me he painted his Dads car he said he painted it with a airless gun that's used to pain houses, well this I had to see well it was painted and as I drove up to where the car was sitting it looked good nice shine but as I walked up to it was full of sags as he used a lite green with metal flake and that had made it look like crap in my eyes, but his Dad was so happy and the car was painted and from a distance I really liked the paint job cottonwood seeds, bugs and all the other stuff.

I liked the Roll On that Tim I think posted in a You Tube Video that I need to try LOL guess one shouldn't knock it till one try's it .

Just Say In 

[Plymouthy Adams]

this Tim did not roll a topcoat of paint...second reason...I do not do u-tube

[Scruffy49]

It isn't as tricky as it sounds, IF you have access to decent materials. PPG is my favorite to work with, Sherwin Williams has a decent line of automotive paints, Martin Seynour is fine to work with. Tricky paints? The pre-mix Duplicolor from the big box parts store, any other lacquers, and House of Kolor (great shades but water thin).

 

If you just want color on a driver, go with industrial alkyds, marine/yacht paints, tractor enamels, or good old Rustoleum. They all need thinning, and the tractor paint could use an activator/hardener for best results, but they are all very forgiving when learning how to paint. Valspar/House of Kolor has a line of tractor paints that not only has a good open time and pot life, but has pretty decent color selection. The old truck standard Sahara/Mojave/Dodge Truck Cream is... Cub Cadet Beige. You can do the entire vehicle for under $200 if you have a compressor and even a cheap siphon feed gun.

 

Perfect? No, but if you are entering it as a learning experience and end up liking the process, pretty cheap fun. You can always sand and respray it later... octogenerian you say? So, there was a 100 year old lady on the news here that still drives, volunteers at the hospitals and "old folks" home... Your truck should have knocked at least 20 years off your age spirits wise... so you're now late 50s or early 60s.

Edited June 23, 2013 by Scruffy49

[seabee1950]

this Tim did not roll a topcoat of paint...second reason...I do not do u-tube

OK OK I will go back and find who it was putting your name was a grave era on my insignificant self,low life trailer trash dunklin  Donut eating misfit of a donkeys butt, sad excuse for human flash undeserving no nothing inveigle. 

PENNNY PENNY PENNY PENNY                    

 

 

OK forget what I just said above I now know It was Don C if he is painting things  with  rustnolium  and  a  roller we all  should have looked at this Video, Great Job Don.

 

 

 

LOL

Edited June 23, 2013 by seabee1950

[Dave72dt]

If you're going to have someone else do the "lipstick", find that person before starting your bodywork and use the materials they recommend.  They'll be familiar with how the product behaves and won't have to learn on something new to them or play home chemist trying to get their product to work on top of yours.

[Don Coatney]

OK OK I will go back and find who it was putting your name was a grave era on my insignificant self,low life trailer trash dunklin  Donut eating misfit of a donkeys butt, sad excuse for human flash undeserving no nothing inveigle. 

PENNNY PENNY PENNY PENNY                    

 

 

OK forget what I just said above I now know It was Don C if he is painting things  with  rustnolium  and  a  roller we all  should have looked at this Video, Great Job Don.

 

 

 

LOL

Hold on, I never said I did any roller painting. I just said others have done so. I just posted the link to the video.

[55 Fargo]

The "tip and Roll" method of painting has been done by many a Yachtsman , using marine enamels, and urethane formulated for this very use.

There is plenty of Industrial Alkyd enamels, this stuff mixed with a wet look hardener can be used with excellent results. I have done some of this myself. I have also used unorthodox methods such as, spraying on rusty metal primer, cut with acrylic enamel reducers, , then waiting for it to cure, than have used filler,s 2 k urethane primers and epoxy primer, with fantastic results. Incidentally Rustoleum primer, once cure blocks and wet sands very nicely, but it must be cure fully first and that takes 2-3 weeks.

Production shops for obvious reasons  don't have time for this, as R&R and collision work is where the bread and butter are, so time is money.

If Paul is not having some shop do it all, He might as well do the prep, and send it to Maaco, if the prep is done well, Maaco can do a reasonable job.

the recipe, strip panel, hammer and dolly, fix rust, acid prep metal, primer, do filler work, 2k high build primers, blocking to perfection, glaze filler, more blocking, wetsanding and sealer and topcoat or topcoat.

So yes it is a long process, a lot of work, if you can afford it, find a shop or someone, have it done, or spend some time, and doa lot of it yourself......good luck

[J.R.]

Stay away from the tractor paint unless you are painting a tractor! It may be only $30 a gallon but it doesn't react well with other materials and is a holy pain in the A to sand it all off once you (or the new owner) decide that it was a bad idea! The custom 48 chevy aerosedan I am building was covered in yellow John Deere primer because the other guy thought it was cool, cheap and trying to build a pos r**rod.

I just painted my wifes 66 dart last summer. I did all the bodywork, sealer, primer and sanding in the driveway and rented a local booth to do the base/clear. Materials ran about $1600 (used mostly Omni/Evercoat products), the booth was $250 for all weekend with 24hr access and I don't even want to think about how many hours went into prep!

[55 Fargo]

I have used plenty of synthetic enamel with other products with no ill effects. What do you think a lot of these cars were painted with back in the day. look at today, water based BC, and 2 k urethane clears to go over. i have mixed "tractor type' synthetic/alkyd enamel with all kinds of things "they say" without problems...

BTW ever try using rusty metal primer on stripped panels, is an excellent 1st primer, and have used 2 k urethane surfacers right over, it works very well

[Scruffy49]

As much as I loved Deltron and Delthane, my 69 D100 is bug bomb Rustoleum Dark Hunter Green and factory white roof, my 49 B1B is Rustoleum bug bombs in whatever was handy when I got through for the day. Except the frame, brush on Rustoleum flat black, and, I just found a couple gallons of lead based yacht paint in my father in law's basement... I know what I'll be using over the lead based primer that has been on it since 1958 or so... the aircraft enamel is flaking off, the marine grade (Todd Shipyard surplus, yep, Seattle area truck originally) red lead primer is rock solid. Good thing I shaved off the fulf facial hair last week, going to need a GOOD respirator for that mess.