woodie49 Posted April 16, 2013 Report Share Posted April 16, 2013 After putting in the overdrive and running on a borrowed solenoid, we left Cambria at 6AM to put us behind the LA traffic last Friday and it was a nice trip. The car runs great and the overdrive makes a world of difference. We stopped in Irvine (about 20 miles north of the Woodie show) for lunch and, before we got back on the freeway, the car broke down. It turned out to be a the fuel pump. The pin holding the arm that drives off the cam popped out and that was the end of our fuel pressure. When we pulled the pump at a gas station where the machanic was pretty cool and let me help him, it became obvious what happened. The pump came out, the arm and spring were left inside the engine. Fortunately, we were able to fish them out with a magnet from the drain plug. The arm was quite bent as I guess it had a few strokes with the pin only partly installed. No way to source a pump in time, so the Woodie stayed at a gas station and we rented a car to get to the hotel. In the meanwhile I ran around and got a 6V electric pump and all the peices to install and left them in the car for the mechanic. We ended up getting to the hotel about 9:30PM. Next morning, I called the meachanic (they are called "technicians" now!) explained where and how ro install it to him (reminded him my car is positive ground, which he kept telling me was not right) and we were off back to Irvine. Car was finished mid-day and we went back to Doheney in time for the closing dinner and party. So, not a total loss. Weather was cold and crummy, not ideal for a woodie show anyway. It rained on th way home. Also not ideal. No problems with the electric pump, but I plan to rebuild another one i have and run it with the electric behind it, turned off, as a backup. That is the set-up on my Packard, and I wish I had done it earlier on the Woodie. Car ran great wthile it was running and it is really a pleasure to drive with the newly installed Overdrive. so we drove 6 hours each way to and from Dana Point to spend 4 hours in a gas station and work on the car. Good party though. Easy come, easy go! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fourleaf Posted April 16, 2013 Report Share Posted April 16, 2013 I am buying spare parts righ now for when my 48 decides to leave me on the side of the road. It will happen so why not prepare! Sounded stressful but also like a good time. Glad the new overdrive worked out for you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Martin Posted April 16, 2013 Report Share Posted April 16, 2013 My dodge did the exact same thing. I put a 6volt electric on it. Then I had a problem with gas leaking out of carb. Checked the pressure and had about 15 lbs so I had to put a pressure regulator on it. Watch for that problem. I had an old pump that was in trunk so would have had an extra arm but threw it away 2 days earlier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodie49 Posted April 17, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 17, 2013 I have a complete pumpo rebuild. It must be older (or maybe not a rebuilt) as the pin that came out in mine is more like a copper rivit. Not sure how i will get it out, but i assume I will just drill it out. The pump I used is designed to be run direct without a regulator, it only puts out about 6 lbs. No problems at idle with the carb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgeb4ya Posted April 17, 2013 Report Share Posted April 17, 2013 It's a shame these newer pumps are no good. I have read several stories of this pin coming out. All my flatheads have old pumps that still work good. I will rebuild them if i have too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thrashingcows Posted April 17, 2013 Report Share Posted April 17, 2013 SOmeone posted just recently about a rebuild kit from...Atlas? Anyway it came with a new pin, and then had "C" clip to hold it in place. Much better set-up then the factory rounded over head, or pinned shaft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merle Coggins Posted April 17, 2013 Report Share Posted April 17, 2013 Then and Now Automotive / Antique Auto Parts Cellar has good rebuild kits for fuel pumps. And they are great people to work with. http://www.maritimedragracing.com/antique_auto_parts_cellar.htm I agree that this seems to be a common issue with "new" pumps. It happened to me one day at a busy intersection during afternoon rush hour. However, I was prepared. I had replaced the fuel pump with a new one when I rebuilt the engine. Then I got a kit from the Cellar and rebuilt my old one and stored it in a box under the seat of my truck. When the pump pin came out and left me stranded, a good samaritan passerby helped tow me off the road into a parking lot where I changed the pump and was on my way. Now the "new" pump has been rebuilt with another kit and IT resides in the box under the seat. I don't expect to ever need it now though. Merle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TodFitch Posted April 17, 2013 Report Share Posted April 17, 2013 SOmeone posted just recently about a rebuild kit from...Atlas? Anyway it came with a new pin, and then had "C" clip to hold it in place. Much better set-up then the factory rounded over head, or pinned shaft. Kit was from Antique Auto Parts Cellar: http://mopar.pairserver.com/p15d24ph_forum/index.php?/topic/32719-fuel-pump-rebuild/?hl=%2Bfuel+%2Bpump+%2Brebuild Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgeb4ya Posted April 17, 2013 Report Share Posted April 17, 2013 (edited) The worst part of this problem is the thrashing of the arm or pin by the crankshaft. Will any damage happen when the arm gets flung around by the crankshaft that you would not see it unless you pull the pan. Once again poor quality control by a manufacturer. We pay the price. Edited April 18, 2013 by Dodgeb4ya Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Balazs Posted April 17, 2013 Report Share Posted April 17, 2013 Woodie49; Wished I would have known......my shop is a minute off the freeway in Irvine and I would have been happy to loan you my fuel pump. By coinkydink I just won a OEM fuel pump & filter off ebay today. I am going to rebuild it and keep it as a spare as your story is all too familiar. I may just look into a plumbed in electric pump as a backup.......as long as it can be done without a negative effect on the standard fuel pump. Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merle Coggins Posted April 17, 2013 Report Share Posted April 17, 2013 Jeff, If you make sure the pin in your current pimp is staked in place the. You should be OK. But it never hurts to have a spare handy. It saved my @$$ as stated earlier. Also, I have added an electric pump at the tank that is only used to help prime the carb after extended sitting periods. Normally it's switched off and doesn't effect the operation of the standard pump. I have found, however, that it doesn't quite make enough pressure to push a high volume through the mechanical pump. I dont think i could run the engine off the electric only in the current configuration. I do have another one with a higher pressure rating now, but I havent put it in yet. Merle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Balazs Posted April 18, 2013 Report Share Posted April 18, 2013 Hi Merle; Yes I did that......but I am in the process of putting together a set of what I consider to be essential spares. This is certainly one of those items. Does your mechanical pump draw through the electric pump or is there a bypass ? Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merle Coggins Posted April 18, 2013 Report Share Posted April 18, 2013 It draws through the electric pump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodie49 Posted April 18, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 18, 2013 Jeff, I used to live in Irvine and I am there about every third week. In fact, it was Robert Escalante at Custom Auto in Santa Ana, who services my Packard (and most everyone else's) and is a good friend of mine who waited well after hours at his shop to give me an electric pump to have installed. Had I been able to reach him earlier, I owuld have gone there even though I was not driving a Packard. What is your shop and do you work on a lot of flatties? I can use a good contact down here (I am in Irvine tonight). I have brought the Woodie back and forth between Irvine and Cambria with no problems until now. Bad timing. Woodie49; Wished I would have known......my shop is a minute off the freeway in Irvine and I would have been happy to loan you my fuel pump. By coinkydink I just won a OEM fuel pump & filter off ebay today. I am going to rebuild it and keep it as a spare as your story is all too familiar. I may just look into a plumbed in electric pump as a backup.......as long as it can be done without a negative effect on the standard fuel pump. Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Balazs Posted April 18, 2013 Report Share Posted April 18, 2013 Woodie49; I am a woodworker and my shop is right across from the Irvine Auto Center. I am building a 52 B-3-C and it has a freshly rebuilt fuel pump that I could have pulled off for you. It is sitting in my warehouse waiting for the cab to come back from the painter. Would have been a 5 minute job to pull it off. I see you have an overdrive. Is it a factory unit or is it aftermarket? Do you know Jay Nordgren ? He has mid 50s Buick Woodies and used to do the Doheney thing. I helped him a bit with the wood for his first Buick a long time ago. Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Skinner Posted April 19, 2013 Report Share Posted April 19, 2013 (edited) First Rule of driving an old Chrysler - bring a spare fuel pump - they (flat Heads) tend to eat them. Second rule of driving an old Chrysler - refer to rule one. Save your old fuel pumps shells to rebuild the old Airtech #588 are no longer being made. Ebay salespeople asking heepum wampum for them now. Rebuild kits about $45 Edited April 19, 2013 by Tom Skinner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TodFitch Posted April 19, 2013 Report Share Posted April 19, 2013 First Rule of driving an old Chrysler - bring a spare fuel pump - they (flat Heads) tend to eat them. Second rule of driving an old Chrysler - refer to rule one. Save your old fuel pumps shells to rebuild the old Airtech #588 are no longer being made. Ebay salespeople asking heepum wampum for them now. Rebuild kits about $45 Hmmm. That is not what I want to hear when I am setting out for 500 miles tomorrow and 400 the day after with only the fuel pump that is on the engine. I don't think that the Mopar L-6 engines are any tougher on fuel pumps than other cars. Just that the old materials are not up toe modern gas and that the modern replacement pumps are junk. Just do a quality rebuild on an original core and you should be good to go. On the other hand I might be stuck tomorrow 100 miles from anywhere wishing I hadn't posted this comment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodie49 Posted April 19, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 19, 2013 The electric 6V works great and had no trouble moving gas through the system at freeway speeds. It is a good backup. I don't think the L-heads are really any worse on fuel pumps, but i think the rebuilds that don't stake the pin are a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Young Ed Posted April 19, 2013 Report Share Posted April 19, 2013 I don't think my cars tend to eat fuel pumps. I put about 15K miles on mine(rebuilt by me with a antique auto cellar kit) until the pin came loose. Staked it really good this time and its still going strong. I have also seen some of their kits come with a longer pin and C clips. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodie49 Posted April 25, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 25, 2013 I just got a rebuild kit from Antique Auto Parts Cellar. The pin has c clamps to hold it in place. The instructuons say to dip the diaphram in kerosene to soften it up. Around here I don't find kerosine any more. what is a suitable substitute? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg g Posted April 25, 2013 Report Share Posted April 25, 2013 mineral spirits Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Coatney Posted April 25, 2013 Report Share Posted April 25, 2013 I just got a rebuild kit from Antique Auto Parts Cellar. The pin has c clamps to hold it in place. The instructuons say to dip the diaphram in kerosene to soften it up. Around here I don't find kerosine any more. what is a suitable substitute? Diesel fuel should work. Just smells worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_shel_ny Posted April 25, 2013 Report Share Posted April 25, 2013 As I understand it, #1, or # 2 fuel oil used in home heating is a less refined form of kerosene, and would likely do the deed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P15-D24 Posted April 25, 2013 Report Share Posted April 25, 2013 You can get a 1 gal can of kerosene at OSH or Home Depot in the paint section. Also it's a good degreaser for cleaning parts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Skinner Posted April 27, 2013 Report Share Posted April 27, 2013 Lowe's Sells Kerosene in 1 gallon cans. I have had several 1948 Chrysler Flat Head Sixes - 250.6 cu. in. engines since 1973.. They liked Fuel Pumps. About 1 every 5 years. Just an observation on my part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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