52dodge Posted April 15, 2013 Report Share Posted April 15, 2013 ok guys i dropped my oil pan today to replace the oil pan gasket.It looked to be leaking from the rear of the pan. but im thinking it was also leaking some from the rear main seal.Id like to fix any leaks now while i got the pan off.There looks to be a small shield with a felt like material seal that bolts to the bellhousing and goes between the pan and front of the bellhousing? Whats this felt seal for and is it easy to replace the rear main now that i got the pan off? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctor dirt Posted April 15, 2013 Report Share Posted April 15, 2013 Rope gasket??? I think thats whats on the car up till early 60s!! They work well unless the car is stored then they shrink and start leaking until they heat up and swell. If that process happens alot they can fail. I'm speculating but some of the knowledgable folks will chime in and guide you! good luck Doc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
52dodge Posted April 16, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 16, 2013 after closer inspection the actual rear main looks to be rubber material, i also noticed some oil sludge flung up inside the top of the bellhousing area above the converter/fluiddrive,the fluid drive was full when i removed the plug so that don't seem to be leaking any so im assuming its coming from the rear main.The clutch disc was wore but didn't look terribly bad so im wondering if its possible for some oil from a rear main leak to get onto the flywheel and cause the clutch to slip? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TodFitch Posted April 16, 2013 Report Share Posted April 16, 2013 Rope gasket??? I think thats whats on the car up till early 60s!! They work well unless the car is stored then they shrink and start leaking until they heat up and swell. . . Interesting. I had not heard that before. My engine was stored for about 10 years after it was rebuilt before I ever ran it and it has had a fairly significant leak. I am now 900 miles from home with the odometer saying I've done 1200 miles since I left and I was wondering why my oil consumption (leaking) on this trip was less than expected. The desert hasn't been too hot, mid to high 80s, but we were doing sustained 55 to 60 MPH for hundreds of miles and definitely warmed up the engine. Maybe getting everything warm and circulating for hours on end has made a difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptwothree Posted April 16, 2013 Report Share Posted April 16, 2013 There's lots of stuff in the search engine regarding this subject. But to get you going, your gotta remove the trans/bellhousing, clutch and flywheel just to access the rear main. I'm not sure what that felt piece on the clutch dust shield is for. Some have actually restored this part (replaced the felt) so maybe they know..... Rots o ruck........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andydodge Posted April 16, 2013 Report Share Posted April 16, 2013 There are 2 types of rear main seal that I am aware of......the rope seal and the neoprene seal, the complete rope seal "can" be replaced without pulling the clutch/flywheel etc off but its not easy but using a sneaky pete it can be done.......the neoprene lower can be replaced but not the neoprene upper so it will require the full flywheel thru to driveshaft removal ..........and there are at least 2 types of "ears" that seal the rear main cap onto the block..........I would suggest that you 1st check exactly what you have by dropping the sump/rear main cap then decide how, what & whether you can,can't do anything.....lol..........my 1941 Plymouth with the original engine should have had a rope seal.....nope...it actaully had a neoprene seal.....BUT NO EARS..........lol......so I installed them and the oil still leaked but no where near as bad.........its a fun job...have fun..lol...........andyd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desotodav Posted April 16, 2013 Report Share Posted April 16, 2013 I'm playing with the rear main seal on my 52 truck engine at present. The one that I have fitted is the rubber version (see attached pic), which I bought in a kit. I did some research on the forum recently to find that earlier versions of the engine had the rope seal. I have also attached a page from Hank's manual (from a previous post) that shows the rope seal. I'm sure that Hank won't mind me using it. From what I understand, the felt attached to the pan plate is more or less just a dust seal. I initially stuck cork on mine but it isn't thick enough so I will be replacing it with felt whilst the engine and gearbox are out of the truck. I found that oil was being flung from the flywheel through the gap in that pan plate and onto the exhaust - hence the need to close that gap with some felt. My truck has a different gearbox to the one in your car, so the pan plate (pictured) may differ somewhat to the one that you mention. A word of warning though (from my recent experience), I have just found that the crankshaft rear main bearing clearance on my 218 motor is .005 rather than the specified .0015 to .003. I found the measurement for this gap by using a strip of 'PLASTIGAGE' and torquinq the rear main cap bolts up to the required 80-85 foot pounds - then checked the measurement that the strip of 'Plastigage' was squashed to between the crankshaft and the bearing cap. I am now taking steps towards undersized bearings and possibly a crank grind as I am told that no seal will stem the oil leak with such a bearing gap. I am no mechanic by any stretch of the imagination - but I learn quick from those that are qualified around me! I am only mentioning my experience in the hope that you will check your rear main cap clearance and find the gap better than mine was. It would be a shame to replace the seal and still find that the engine leaked oil. I hope it all goes well for you!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
52dodge Posted April 16, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 16, 2013 Thanks for the input guys,i did alot of reading on the subject in the search function, the car is currently sitting on a lift with the tranny and clutch removed to do a clutch job.I noticed the oil in the bellhousing and dont wanna complete the clutch job and have the new disc ruined by motor oil.So im assuming the only other thing i need to remove is the fluid drive/flywheel to gain access to the rear main.I didn't see a positive answer on this but can the seal be replaced without loosening/removing the crankshaft? i know the rear main cap has to come off for the lower seal.I have the oil pan off also to do the oil pan seal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Coatney Posted April 16, 2013 Report Share Posted April 16, 2013 your gotta remove the trans/bellhousing, clutch and flywheel just to access the rear main. Rots o ruck........ I guess you could do all that if you are so inclined. I think it would be much easier to simply remove the oil pan, remove the rear main bearing cap, and replace the seal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Coatney Posted April 16, 2013 Report Share Posted April 16, 2013 There looks to be a small shield with a felt like material seal that bolts to the bellhousing and goes between the pan and front of the bellhousing? Whats this felt seal for and is it easy to replace the rear main now that i got the pan off? The only felt I can think of is this piece on the clutch cover. This is from a P-15. Not sure what vehicle you are working on so you may or may not have this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
52dodge Posted April 16, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 16, 2013 I guess you could do all that if you are so inclined. I think it would be much easier to simply remove the oil pan, remove the rear main bearing cap, and replace the seal. I guess you could do all that if you are so inclined. I think it would be much easier to simply remove the oil pan, remove the rear main bearing cap, and replace the seal. that would be the easiest way to replace the lower half but i wanna do both halves Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Coatney Posted April 16, 2013 Report Share Posted April 16, 2013 Suggest you read the fine print in the instructions I posted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
52dodge Posted April 16, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 16, 2013 oops sorry don ,so what you guys are saying is if i have the neoprene gasket it can be done without removing the crank? I dont wanna unbolt the flywheel for no reason if i can replace the upper seal with the crank in place,sorry for the confusion, this simple clutch job has become one issue after another. I got the oil pan in the parts washer here at work and cant believe how much,muck and sludge is on the bottom of the pan in the sump area,its almost gray in color and im scraping it off in sheets,the motor runs great though and burns no oil,the original owner i got the car from always kept up with the oil changes so im surprised theres so much sludge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodie49 Posted April 16, 2013 Report Share Posted April 16, 2013 I recently replaced my rear main seal and so far I have no leaks. I did not have to pull the bell housing, but the flywheel definately needs to come off. I used the neoprene type "best" gasket for replacement. In my case, there was a real issue getting the top three bolts into the block with the seal and liner in place. Originally, there was a rope type seal used, but that was incorrect for my block. The clearance between the crank and the block is very minimal and I used #5 type bolts, that i think were 3/4 (maybe even just 1/2) long and I needed to grind the heads down some to get enough clearance to install them. It was tougher with the seal in place. Took probably 20 minutes to get the top bolt in and threaded because you are working blind and with no room. The other two were faster, but not a while bunch. bring a can of patience with you. The upside is that the seal is replaced and appears to not be leaking at the moment. I just drove about 800 miles, so i think it would be leaking by now if it was going to. The thread for the job is pretty recent here on the forum. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andydodge Posted April 17, 2013 Report Share Posted April 17, 2013 52Dodge.........as I said.........rope seal CAN be replaced without removing the clutch/flywheel using a tool called a SNEAKY PETE which allows you to pull the old upper rope seal from around the crank and install the NEW upper rope seal...........BUT if you have a neoprene seal then, to quote Walter P Chrysler.........you is up S..T creek............you must remove the flywheel to access the upper neoprene seal piece........have a look at the pics that DeSotoDav posted.........regards, andyd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
52dodge Posted April 17, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 17, 2013 ok so im here now working on my 52,i removed the flywheel,oil pan and rear main cap,i do not have the rope seal,it a neoprene rubber version,whats the best way to get the upper half out? Do i tap on one side and work it around its grove till i can grab the other end with pliers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
52dodge Posted April 17, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 17, 2013 i also notice there 3 threaded holes above/behind the rear crank flange where nothing is bolted,im guessing this is where a rope style seal would mount? Did blocks that used the neoprene gasket also have provisions for the rope style? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
52dodge Posted April 18, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 18, 2013 ok with some love and swearing i got it out,the rubber was hard as a rock and came out in tiny pieces, i hope installing the new one is easier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodie49 Posted April 18, 2013 Report Share Posted April 18, 2013 My neoprene rubber seal replacement was part of a plate that lined up with the three holes behind the crank that you are talking about - the ones with very little clearance between the block and the crank. The rope seal that I saw is just a rope seal, the only version of the rubber seal that I have seen for replacement is a seal mounted to the plate that lines up with the three holes, and a gasket goes between the plate and the block as well. The bottom part of the seal is the same, with the same kind of plate that bolts to the rear main cap. If you go back to my thread, I included pictures of the seal and others contributed to which is correct for which block. I do have another 218 block for eventual rebuilding. The old rope seal is on it, and it also is mounted to the plate that lines up with the three holes in the block. Don posted some pictures from the manual that were quite helpful in understanding the differences. The seal originally in my car was a rubber seal that road in the last grove in the block (without the plate) and corresponding groove in the main cap. It came out pretty easily, but also leaked pretty bad. I have not seen a replacement in this configuration, but they must be out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Coatney Posted April 18, 2013 Report Share Posted April 18, 2013 (edited) I just added this information to the resources section. Edited April 18, 2013 by Don Coatney Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
52dodge Posted April 18, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 18, 2013 (edited) thats what mine is,it rides in a grove,nothing holds the upper half in except the grove,what should i use for replacment? Edited April 18, 2013 by 52dodge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
52dodge Posted April 18, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 18, 2013 so mine must be the oddball version lol just my luck,like i said there's nothing holding the top half in except the grove it rides in Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Coatney Posted April 18, 2013 Report Share Posted April 18, 2013 Look like this? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
52dodge Posted April 18, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 18, 2013 yep i believe thats the same style Look like this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
52dodge Posted April 18, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 18, 2013 where do i find this slip in non bolted style? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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