Question about hemi heads

[TR Waters]

Installing slightly larger valves is an easy operation, and I would highly recommend it.  There are many available, and the majority at a lesser cost than original valves. Plus using an 11/32 stem allows the sleeving  (vs replacement) of the valve guides.  My .02. 

[Young Ed]

Wayfarer, don't get too concerned. I didn't ask my builder about the lifters yet. It'll be interesting what his answer is. Your post points out more things I need to get multiple answers on to be sure. Even if it's not right it's all bolt on stuff that can be changed, not like a botched shaft grind or whatever.

But, to answer your question about what he works on, today I saw a model a engine nearly done, a model a transmission in the works, 2 flathead ford v8s, a model t motor, a 30s shiverlay, several other old flatheads, a monster 2 cylinder diesel, and a brand spanking new 350 crank for some project not visible.

I asked him about bigger valves this evening and he discourages it. He knows how I drive and says it would help at higher rpms, but would hurt on the low end where I'd usually be.

But, I might get deeper into hemi motors than I'd planned. Someone offered me 5 of them this evening at a reasonable price. A 241, a 270, a 315 and 2 Desotos. What's a guy to do?

 

You can drop a 241 or 270 off at my house next time you're in MN!

[austinsailor]

Well, I go get a pickup load of hemi motors later this week. Should have spare parts now!

Talked to my machine shop guy this morning. He says there are numerous ways to do the valves, but we're going with new hydraulic lifters and adjustable pushrods. Talked to the guy at Hotheads, he concurred. Guess we're on the way with that.

Now I have to figure out the cam, probably let the grinder select that part.

But today I get to play with my new spray cabinet parts washer.

Tried it Friday with some detergent from a local supplier. Told him it had to be non foaming, he said it was. Wrong. My shop looked like a washing machine went nuts!

Borrowed some of the correct stuff this morning, we'll see how that does.

[mrwrstory]

Sounds like you're getting dialed in to a good solution. Keep us posted and w/pics too please.

Edited February 11, 2013 by mrwrstory

[TR Waters]

There isnt going to be alot of choice on the cam, unless you happen upon a N.O.S. unground core.

[fstfish66]

talk to some oen that deals in those early hemi motors,,,like any motor too much cam and it will fall on its face,,,

[austinsailor]

Well, I now have hemis! In Hays, Kansas heading back to Missouri with 5 of them in the back of my pickup. 241, 270, 315 and two Desotos. Surely I can come up with any parts I need.

Anyone interested in a 38 Terriplane! I'm tempted but have more already than I could ever make use of.

Gene

[mrwrstory]

Congratulations. Neat thing about engines is they don't take up much room. I made crates for mine and stacked two high they make a great work surface.

The 270 is a one year only low deck block. It is "not" a bored out 241. Also the Hemi heads are a bolt on to the same year 259cu. in. Playmouths.

You should be able to complete your project and still make money 2:1.

[austinsailor]

Not sure if I should start a new thread, as I'm heading off to motor identification, but it includes the heads, so what the heck?

 

I brought home 3 Dodge hemi motors, now I would like to figure out just what they are. He told me a 241 Dodge car motor, which I think is correct - I have another as well; a 270 car motor and a 315 truck motor.

 

I have numbers and some details and I'm hoping someone can point me to some information on them.

 

number 1.  serial #L8D5-16817, no markings on the valve covers, looks to me added paint, not factory, so they might have had decals at one time.  On the exhaust side, there is a hump at each of the 4 rocker/pushrods. It's the only one that has this.  It's a front oil sump motor.

 

 

number 2. serial #D44-10011. I have another as well, and I believe both of them to be 53 or 54 Dodge car motors. one had a flywheel, one had a torque converter and powerflite.  Valve cover has raised "Red Ram"on the top, "Dodge" on the bottom. Front oil sump.

 

#3 serial # D533-71444 Has "Super Red Ram" decals on the valve cover, front oil sump.

 

I want to tear down the 315, assuming I really have one, and see if it's in good shape. I might just change course and rebuild it instead of the 241 at this point.  We can always use more cubic inches and HP, can't we?

 

Thanks for any help.

 

Gene

[Don Coatney]

Not sure if I should start a new thread,

Gene

Please do not start a new thread. Much better to keep all this information in one place.

[mrwrstory]

Right off the top of my head, the 315 engine should have the motor mount flanges cast on each side of the block vs a single front, part of the water pump housing, for the 241 and 270. That makes for an easier install with a later model trans and you have Chev water pump options.

The valve covers with the bumps indicate adjustable rocker arms. If they are still with the engine, 'tho you may not want to use them, both the rockers and the valve covers are highly desirable. I believe that also indicates a truck or performance engine with solid lifters. The adjustable rockers "if" you decide to use them would preclude the need for adjustable push rods. The push rods are a lighter alternative but if you're not going racing, the adjustable rockers will be just fine for a street driven car.

It would also behoove you to get Ron Ceridono's book "The Complete Chrysler Hemi Engine Manual". It may be out of print but surely available on eBay. It's a wealth of info.

[austinsailor]

Thanks, it's ordered.

 

Gene

[austinsailor]

Ok, went back over to the shop to look. No adjustable rockers, darn!

 

But, it does have the motor mounts cast into the sides of the block.

 

Now, added info:

 

 

 

number 1.  serial #L8D5-16817, no markings on the valve covers, looks to me added paint, not factory, so they might have had decals at one time.  On the exhaust side, there is a hump at each of the 4 rocker/pushrods. It's the only one that has this.  It's a front oil sump motor.

 

New info: Timing arrow bolted to bottom of the water pump where the motor mount would be in the old style.

 

Water pump is bigger, has 5 bolts holding it on.

 

 

Single point distributor

 

 

 

number 2. serial #D44-10011. I have another as well, and I believe both of them to be 53 or 54 Dodge car motors. one had a flywheel, one had a torque converter and powerflite.  Valve cover has raised "Red Ram"on the top, "Dodge" on the bottom. Front oil sump.

 

New info:   Old style motor mount

Smaller water pump with 4 bolts

Dual point distributor

 

 

#3 serial # D533-71444 Has "Super Red Ram" decals on the valve cover, front oil sump.

 

New info: Dual point distributor.

Smaller water pump with 4 bolts.

 

 

 

 

 

[wayfarer]

ID codes are on my web site.

 

Many many engines were built with 'bumps' in the valve covers but not equipped with adjustable gear. The Industrial Chrysler is a prime example as ALL Industrial valve covers had bumps but in 40 years I have never seen adjustable rockers on one....

 

Another example is your L8D5, a Dodge 315 truck engine; all trucks used the plain valve covers with decals identifying the particular engine.

 

Be cautious with relying on and interpreting the info in Ron's book...there are errors in the first printing and, although I haven't checked, I doubt that they were corrected in subsequent editions.  Just sayin'.

 

If possible, can you post a pic of the 'D533' stamp?

Edited February 16, 2013 by wayfarer

[mrwrstory]

 

 

Be cautious with relying on and interpreting the info in Ron's book...there are errors in the first printing and, although I haven't checked, I doubt that they were corrected in subsequent editions.  Just sayin'.

 

If possible, can you post a pic of the 'D533' stamp?

 Ron's book is a great info source but I also concur with wayfarer's caution.

[austinsailor]

Got the 315 torn down completely. A bit of a chore, as 4 pistons were pretty well stuck. The guy I got it from took it out of a good running truck and put it in his shop - in 1967! Had he sprayed some oil in the cylinders occasionally it would have fared much better. But, with some effort, I got it apart, saved all 8 rods, and it's looking good.

 

Crank is standard on mains and rods, probably will need turning, but unless it's much worse than I think, .010 will do it. Cylinders are not worn much, but will need cleaning up. All in all, I'm quite pleased. I'm putting the 241 on the back burner and we'll go full speed ahead with this one.

 

Ran all the parts through my new parts washing cabinet.  Why didn't I buy one of these maybe 30 years ago?!? Damn, put em in filthy and greasy, take em out clean.

 

Picture is of the block, scraped a bit to get the heavy dirt and stuff off so I don't fill the tank on the first use, but it came out clean 20 minutes later. I didn't think to get a picture of the after, but I can do that tomorrow.

 

Gene 

[wayfarer]

Care to share the details of the wash cabinet?

[austinsailor]

It's this one:

http://www.bestbuyautoequipment.com/parts-washer-spray-wash-cabinet-stw-750-nationwide-p/nw-stw-750.htm

I'm not convinced it's the best one, but you can spend a lot of money on a better one.

It will take any motor block we would be interested in. All the sheet metal, pans, covers, gears, pistons, etc and come out clean in about 20 minutes or so.

You'd still need to vat a motor block to get the passages, but it sure helps.

It'll take pistons and they come out nearly looking new.

[austinsailor]

Here's  picture of the same block after 20 minutes in the washer. The dark places are where the paint is gone.

[fstfish66]

the vavle covers with the raised   RED RAM  DODGE are hard to come by in any condition,,,,love the pic with al the motors in ur truck bed

[austinsailor]

Well, the rebuild is coming along. Block is bored .060 and 2 cylinders sleeved. Some rust pits wouldn't clear at .060. Shaft is ground.

Heads are disassembled. My machinist is excited about them. They are in good shape, valves are all good, and it already has hardened seats on the exhaust side. It also has sodium exhaust valves. I have some 6 bangers with them, but didn't realize that was an option on the hemi trucks.

Guides are in fine shape, in fact, he said they'd been done before and they'd been knurled. He says the knurling done today isn't worth a crap, but back in the day when this was done the method they used did a fine job.

Unless he finds a defect that wasn't obvious it'll be just refacing the valves and seats, then we can measure and order pistons.

[Dodgeb4ya]

I have the sodium exhaust valves with rotators in my twin carb 354 truck hemi heads too.

[wayfarer]

•.060 over??  did you sonic check the cylinders before hogging it out?

•Sodium filled stems were standard on truck engines.

•In the 'old' days, we knurled guides because we didn't have K-liners, also called false guides. Very few shops use or recommend knurling in todays world.

[austinsailor]

"•.060 over??  did you sonic check the cylinders before hogging it out?"

 

I may be mis-reading this, it sounds like you're telling us we may have done something wrong. Care to elaborate?

 

By the way, I'm going with 2-4 barrels and a set of tube headers, which arrived today!

 

Gene

[Dodgeb4ya]

Not all Hemi's had sodium exhaust valve's- with rotators too.. Generally 2-1/2 tonner and had them in both six and eight cylinder models.