Why some businesses fail

[austinsailor]

Not entirely off topic, since it relates to a Dodge truck.

It never ceases to amaze me when I call a business, they know it's a serious call, but you just get no response.

Yesterday I called two Dodge dealerships about buying a new 2012 Dodge diesel pickup to replace my current one. Now, at 220,000 miles and just after it's first clutch replacement it's finally broken in. Why would I replace it? It works out well with the tax man, and it's the last year I won't have to add that silly expensive fluid for the EPA. And my wife says I should because the carpet is worn through. When your wife tells you to buy a new truck, you should listen! This one should last me the rest of my life.

So, called Fletcher Dodge in Columbia, Mo. Told the lady exactly what I wanted. All salesmen are in a meeting, they'll call me soon.

Called Benny Boyd Dodge in Lampasas, Texas. Immediately was put in touch with a salesman. In less than half an hour, I had an email with what I wanted at a good price. Wrong color. Took an hour for him to locate one in a color exactly like I have with everything I wanted at a better price. $500 less than I paid for the 2005, and I get a Jake brake as well. Thought I got a good price in '05.

Still no call from Fletcher.

2 hours later, called Fletcher, asked if they still sold trucks. Sure she says, can we help you. Told her I was still waiting for a call back. She finally located a salesman, he took down what I wanted, said they didn't have one in stock, would have to locate one, which I expected.

By 3 in the afternoon, had the truck deal done with Benny Boyd, 2 ways of financing figured out, all is good. Even got a bigger discount since I have to drive 800 miles to pick it up.

Today, still waiting on Fletcher to call me back. Never did find out if I could have gotten an equal deal there.

Pretty sad, dealer nearly within walking distance can't do anything, dealer 800 miles from home nails it in an hour or two.

I have several businesses, any time we have contact with a customer or possible customer I make sure they leave happy. What ever it takes.

I don't feel sorry for many businesses that fail. There is often a reason.

OK, done ranting.

Edited October 10, 2012 by austinsailor

[Plymouthy Adams]

it is not only dealerships..the trend is pretty much through the entire retail/services field..

[Robert Horne]

Same type service here in Virginia. Took me over two hours and several cups of coffee to haggle with a dishonest salesman when I bought my wife a Dodge Avenger. We spent alot of time on our cycle, car shopping.

We would leave our information of what we were looking for, and the salesmen never contacted us.

[JIPJOBXX]

Service? What service, we have no stinking service! just another sign about our society and lets put it mildly service was forgotten about back in the 50's!

[rtlsnakedaddy]

Similar experience up here when I bought my Mustang.

Dealer across the street from work wouldn't give me a solid price, just payment numbers. This even after I told him I wasn't interested in a payment.

Went to deler two, a few miles from home. Salesman were too busy talking to each other. Finally they finished up their conversation and one stated 'let me go play around with this guy for a bit' and gestured toward me. I let him show me a few cars, but they lost me at the start.

Dealer 3, 30 miles from home. Salesperson was there when I needed questions answered, showed me a number of options, and got me a price I was happy with. Even delivered it to my house since my work schedule made it difficult to get to them at a decent hour. Bought from them and would again.

I should add that I have worked for two Motorcycle dealers in both sales and parts, and would never have treated a customer the way two of the dealers treated me.

[Don Coatney]

When I was looking for a car I told the sales person exactly what I was looking for. He replied with a deer in headlights look on his face "what kind of driving will I be doing?" as if that would make a difference in the exact car I was looking for. I replied I will be mostly be driving forward but there will be some backing up involved.

[dezeldoc]

did you trade it in? i am looking for a 04 or 05.

[Merle Coggins]

Are you SURE that you won't need DEF (Diesel Exhaust Fluid, a.k.a. Urea) in the '12 model diesel truck? Tier 4 final regulations went into effect for on road diesel engines in 2010. That regulation called for a sizable reduction in NOx (Nitrogen Oxides), which is what the DEF does when added to a catylist. So, 2010 is when DEF tanks appeared on trucks.

Merle

[Dan Hiebert]

When we bought our 2009 Avenger, it took almost six hours. But it was what my wife wanted, and it was the first car we bought in NY, thought maybe it was a NY thing. Traded it in for a 2012 Durango in June after calling the same dealer where we bought the Avenger, not getting a reply, and going to a different one. We were out the door with our new ride in an hour flat. Just got a return call from the first dealer a couple weeks ago. So it wasn't a "NY thing", it was customer service.

[40P10touring sedan]

From what my buddy who used to be a salesman told me is that most dealers want to sell what they have off their lot...having to trade or buy another lot's/dealer's vehicle is too much of a hassle for them{not really, but they want it simple...er}.

Money is money I figure. No dealer will ever loose money on a deal...any time they make a deal with you they're making money, if they let you walk away after haggeling they were going to cut it close or loose money.

[JerseyHarold]

I sold new cars for a few years and the rule at many dealerships is not to let a customer leave knowing your bottom line price. The theory is that you've spent time with the prospect, and if you give them a price you're making it easy for the next dealer to say "If I can save you $100.00 off that price, would you buy the car now?"

Actually, you should fear the after-sale person (aka business manager, delivery coordinator, etc) much more than you fear the salesperson. The after-sale folks are the real sharks and make the dealerships and themselves lots of money with extended warrranties, add-on accessories, and the like.

[rtlsnakedaddy]

... <snip> The theory is that you've spent time with the prospect, and if you give them a price you're making it easy for the next dealer to say "If I can save you $100.00 off that price, would you buy the car now?" ...<snip>...

Actually, you should fear the after-sale person (aka business manager, delivery coordinator, etc) much more than you fear the salesperson... <snip>...

I agree with both of these. Having worked in sales, I try to stick with the person who has helped me. I've also seen the fun games the finance people play. One reason I try to negotiate a price, and not a payment. Unfortunately with the Mustang, the salesperson couldn't understand that I didn't want a payment, just to negotiate on the price. I made an offer, he countered with a payment, and continued to call back with updates on payments. I went elsewhere.

My time is also money, and my wife and I walked out of a deal on a Mini Cooper she was interested this year. After 40 minutes of haggling the salesman, he came back after 'discussing with his manager' with the price we offered ( a fair one) at the start. My wife said they've waisted 40 minutes of our time on this and left. She had her checkbook out ready to buy the car at the start, but was so pissed with the games at the end that she decided she wouldn't buy from them.

[austinsailor]

Actually, you should fear the after-sale person (aka business manager, delivery coordinator, etc) much more than you fear the salesperson. The after-sale folks are the real sharks and make the dealerships and themselves lots of money with extended warrranties, add-on accessories, and the like.

I've bought 10 or 11 new trucks and cars in the last 10 years, and you are absolutely right. Car salesmen are known for being liers and cheats, but they don't hold a candle to the guys who do the closings. I won't bore you with 11 stories of lies or attempted lies, but let me tell you, every one of them tried to pull some real crap. Don't believe a word of anything they tell you, and anything they try to sell you at the closing is a big ripoff. I can say that with complete sincerity. I don't care how long and boring it is, read every word of anything you sign. Both sides. If you don't understand it, that is what they want, and there is a reason for that.

As for the DEF, it's needed on the 2013 trucks, not the 2012 consumer type Dodge pickups. Chassis cabs and on up have for a couple years, but not the normal type pickups. I think Ford and Chevy have for a time, this may be the last of them not using it. From my brief look into it, it adds about 25% to your fuel cost. I understand there are chips sold that will let it run without the stuff, but I'm guessing that will get you in hot water down the road.

By the way, never did hear from the Missouri dealer. Guess they don't want to sell trucks. I have a business about 2 blocks from them and I'll promise you I'd sell them anything I have or wear myself out trying.

I'm now trying to figure out for sure what the rear axle is so I can arrange to go from the dealer to a 4Wheel Drive parts store nearby to have Air Lockers installed. A 4 wheel drive that spins 2 of it's wheels is a real shortcoming.

Someone asked if I'm trading the old one. No, I'll keep it for a bit, take off my snow plow mounts, camper mounts, leave the class 5 receiver and 25,000 lb. gooseneck hitch, along with the front receiver. It's exactly what the farmers want here to pull cow trailers and so on and is highly sought after. I'll probably swap my close to new heavy luged tires to my new one, put the new all terrain (meaning good on pavement) tires on the old one and then sell it.

I'm kind of curious as to how well the Jake brake on these works.

[plymouthcranbrook]

Bought my wife a new Kia Soul In May of this year. First Dealer Sales person did not have any in stock, even for a test drive, but if I would leave a deposit, he would see if he could find one(Hurt self running away). Second Dealer seemed ok, took test drive, had good selection, gave a price. Went home and later on the weekend saw a 20% off sale on all new Kias. Found exactly what we wanted on website. Called "Oh that car is sold". I said" Ad just came out!". Salesperson said" Often those cars are already sold before the ad comes out". Bait and switch. Ran away. Third dealer salesperson got into an argument with me about option availability(I did not want any) told me that he had no choice of options, had to take what they got from Kia. Voices raised, I left. Fourth Dealer. Salesman nice, polite. Gave very good price. Wanted to know what he need to do to get sale. Told him, give me what I want(Red color, automatic + model) NO OPTIONS! He told me if he could not find one without options he would eat them. He went 200 miles to Madison Wi and got one, ate $150 worth of options and really seemed to want to give service with the sale. Whole Dealership that way. No finance tricks, no high pressure. Just buy a car. Love them. Will buy there next time if thay have what I want. Took four tries, but found good one.(And on top of it all, their price was the best of all four)

Edited October 11, 2012 by plymouthcranbrook

[dezeldoc]

You are going to love the exhaust brake they work great! with my 07 it would hold on a hill with a 10k load without down shifting. way better than the older ones by far. I hope they have the mileage thing figured out as on my 07 it would only get 10 mpg in town and 13 on the road that is why i got rid of it.

[greg g]

You need to go to the neighborhood dealer in your new truck, go find one of the slaes managers of better yet the General manager. Then tell him your story. I would bet a goodly sum on the fact that thier next sales meeting will be very interesting. No matter how good your deal was withthe other dealership, the first one lost at least about 2000.00 on not making the sale. And if you have another ram dealer in your area tell the GM you will be taking it there for any maint and warranty work. I would bet that the result of that statement will be at least some free oilchanges and truck washes.

I just did a dealer trade trip with the fellow who was the dealership's top saleman. We had a nice discussion about the finance schemes, the pacs, the dealer cash and how to read an invoice to tell how much holdback ther is the diffference between invoice, and real cost of the car to the dealership.

Rule of thumb, take 20% off the base price of the vehicle, then take 15% off the option pack, add them together, then add the destination charge. If there is rebates or stuff available, apply that to that number. If you can buy the vehicle for 3 to 8 hundred more than that figure you are probably in good shape, and the dealership will still make enough to pay the sales guy and put some in the safe. Stay away from fabric treatment, rustproofing, paint sealent, extended warranty coverage, and if you belong to a credit union go see them in advance of your purchase and arrange see what a loan will cost you for the amount as determined above.

Do not discuss down payments, trade ins, or what you can afford for a monthly payment, Those are all buttons the sales staff will use to put you on their agenda. Know qhat you want, what you want to spend, and have a finance package in your pocket. Do the math, and see if they can beat the deal you have for finance, sometimes they can and then you don't need to trouble yourself about the kick back they are going to get for selling the paper. Remember you are buying the vehicle, not the financing.

For used cars the industry standard is a 1000 to 1200 dolar pack on top of Blue book retail, plus any shop costs for any mechanical work they have to do to the car, but they aren't paying retail for parts or fluids or labor. So there is some wiggle room for new brakes, new tires, new batteries they put on the car. Also know your credit score before you make any move at all, you should get that when you deal with your bank or CU as they will run the reports.

[austinsailor]

Had financing arranged at 2.35%, zero down at the CU before I shopped. Chrysler says they are matching it, will probably go with the CU since I know there are no gotchas with them. You have to read the fine print with the dealer's stuff. Rule of 78, crap like that slips in.

I'd planned to visit the local dealer with the new truck that should be entertaining.

Just found out there is a $1000 savings in sales tax right now if bought out of state. Now, isn't that just the icing on the cake!?

Still trying to get the rear axle model nailed down to get air lockers ordered. I'm curious to see how they work. I had to get out often and dig out with a shovel last year when pushing snow. I think the lockers will pretty much stop that.

I had a couple f150 4x4 in the '90's with limited slip front and rear. Tell you what, if it didn't sink to China, it was going. Soft sand, whatever.

[Jim Shepard]

Not entirely off topic, since it relates to a Dodge truck.

Pretty sad, dealer nearly within walking distance can't do anything, dealer 800 miles from home nails it in an hour or two.

QUOTE]

I have several friends (4-5) who have gone all the way to Dave Smith Dodge in Kellogg, Idaho to get new Dodge trucks. They tell me he's the number one Dodge truck dealer in the country...

[dezeldoc]

Rear axle is a AAM 11.5

[48mirage]

If this is the same Fletcher Group that does business in Joplin, MO the issues seem to be institutional to them.

[austinsailor]

Probably. They also have a Honda dealership here that they bought recently.I'm guessing they have many.

I think it's institutional with nearly all car dealers. It's the unusual case when they do what you'd think they should.

[40P10touring sedan]

This is all good reading especially since there was a happy ending...I'm looking into a new Dodge Dart end of the year since the RT package isn't out yet....I want a compact car, better mileage, and a mopar. Time to do my homework I guess.

Adding to the FM's hassles, long ago I tried a lease since at the time I was trading in at payoff for a new car...thought I'd try something new{silly me}. Got a '96 sebring on a friday, but wednesday they called me in and told me the lease fell through{had good credit-don't get it?}...he wound up insulting me by saying I should have bought a car I could afford - I was sticking to the selling payment of the lease and wouldn't budge one penny{5 yr lease...I dont know why I thought it was a good thing then}...after a half an hour of him trying to beat me up I told him he had 5min to get it right or get me my trade in back. He kept telling me my car was sold- GM financing said it wasn't- wound up they got my price set to a "buy it" and off the lease thing...that's when I found out if the dealer doesn't sign the paperwork they don't have to honor it- always thought they did anyway, wrong! All of 5mos later it was for nothing as the dang car was totalled in the flood of '96 here.

[austinsailor]

Well, a follow up.

Got the new Dodge, got the lockers installed, put on the snowplow and class 5 hitch. The deal with Benny Boyd Dodge went just like it should have. Another $300 disappeared from the sale price by closing. Not sure why, but who's to complain.

Mileage is not great, 14 max, about 11 towing anything. About 4 less than the 05.

Here's the interesting part. The dealer in Columbia, Fletcher, who never called me back, went broke and sold to a bigger chain. Go figure!

Gene

[54Illinois]

I am having the same issue with an upholstry shop.  No call backs....

[Scruffy49]

One my formerly local dealers had exactly the truck I wanted. F550 cab and a half 4x4, diesel, long bed flat/stake, vinyl and rubber interior, base radio, manual transmission... Could have taken it home that day, but, they shot themselves in the foot trying to add on a bunch of passenger car financing "gotchas".

 

Apparently, dealerships have absolutely NO idea what a work truck is... No, I don't see why you need to add floormats, steering wheel cover, paint sealant, etc. It's going in the woods... No, I don't need to upgrade the radio, add extra lights and such to it...

 

I drove in a few days later with a $900 1/2 ton 2wd from the 1960s that has outworked any late model 1 ton I've put it up against... and can be converted to 4wd for under $2K if needed. They were a bit "unhappy" to lose a $60K sale...