pflaming Posted July 23, 2012 Report Share Posted July 23, 2012 FOUND THIS SURFING FOR ANSWERS: I've seen this question pop up pretty often, but never seen a definitive answer. So I decided to drive to the parts store, and figure it out. I replaced the brake lines in my Fiero with the Fiero Store's stainless steel pre-bent lines, and bought an extra proportioning valve and 3-way rear block just in case my old ones were unusable. The prop valve was fine since it was sealed in the spare tire bay, but the rear block was a corroded mess. I cut the old lines off, put the block in a vise, and used a couple Snap-On 6-sided sockets to get the old fittings out of the block. Then I cleaned it off with a wire wheel: Now, when I was seeing how many different brake line and fitting sizes there were, I was surprised to find there were only two (not counting the two lines going to the master cylinder on top of the prop valve). The big fitting, with it's 6mm (1/4) line, and the small fitting with it's 3/16 line. So I took these to the parts store. I hate to admit it, but yes, I went to Auto Zone. This is probably the only store in town where I could go behind the counter and do the research in the parts area for half an hour, going through all the fittings. Here's what I found: The brake lines are European thread bubble flare. Yes, a Pontiac, built in the USA, has European brake lines. I believe this is because the parts probably came from Canada. This is an example of the lines they have: This line is 3/16 x 08" (line size x length) (4.7mm x 20.3cm). metric thread/bubble flare. European thread bubble flare. All these lines begin with the designation PAE-3__, where the last two numbers are the line length in inches. They also had PAB-3__ line, which is US thread bubble flare - these will NOT work on the Fiero. The fittings are a different thread. (Again, the two lines that go into the master cylinder are different, and appear to be regular American-style double flare lines.) Now the fittings: First, the large fittings. size is M14 x 1.5 bubble thread size, 6mm tube size. They sell these in a 5-pack, made by the company AGS. part # BLF-53C-5 barcode # 077146372520 $3.49 The small fittings: size M10 x 1.0 bubble thread size, 3/16 tube size. Also a 5-pack by AGS, part # BLF-39C-5 barcode 077146368813 $2.99 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TodFitch Posted July 23, 2012 Report Share Posted July 23, 2012 Not too surprising to me: My '82 Plymouth had a mishmash of metric and SAE threaded fasteners. It was apparent that Detroit was converting from SAE to metric. It looked like the newer part designs were metric while the stuff being received from vendors who hadn't converted over were still SAE. That was 30 years ago. I haven't purchased a new car a while but I'd not be surprised to hear that its all metric nowadays even for "domestic" brands. Even my old '33 Plymouth is not entirely free of metric threads: It takes a 14mm spark plug. But that is about it as far as non-SAE threads on that car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Young Ed Posted July 23, 2012 Report Share Posted July 23, 2012 My 94 dakota and the other late 90s early 2000s stuff I've worked on are still a mix of metric and SAE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plymouthy Adams Posted July 23, 2012 Report Share Posted July 23, 2012 nothing personal but the metric system should be forever banned..what country do you think this is..trying to get what you need in metric for threading/chasing threads etc..just too much of a pain..why 'fix' anything that has been working for nigh on two centuries.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pflaming Posted July 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 23, 2012 Tim: I think it's Europes' revenge for the USA going independent and switching from tea to coffee. :DYes the fittings on the MC are metric (#12) and the fittings on the valve are SAE (9/16). That cost me a LOT of time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NiftyFifty Posted July 23, 2012 Report Share Posted July 23, 2012 nothing personal but the metric system should be forever banned..what country do you think this is..trying to get what you need in metric for threading/chasing threads etc..just too much of a pain..why 'fix' anything that has been working for nigh on two centuries.. Lmao, anyone who uses "nigh on" in a post probably still thinks its healthy to some and the Russians are comming It's been around a lot of years and 99% of your tool sets cover your needs anyway and even a lot of decent tap and die sets cover off any metric needs, so unless your using a 60 year old wrench or socket set you should have what you need. I used to be a light duty mechanic before I changed careers and I used more metric then sae tools on automotive applications and I actually think they have a better fit and finish sometimes. Very rare they mix up thread types and 9/16 and 14mm are so very close you may just have the Wong wrench in your hand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TodFitch Posted July 23, 2012 Report Share Posted July 23, 2012 (edited) nothing personal but the metric system should be forever banned..what country do you think this is..trying to get what you need in metric for threading/chasing threads etc..just too much of a pain..why 'fix' anything that has been working for nigh on two centuries.. The metric system has been a legal system of measurement in the U.S. since 1866. Our "customary units" are actually defined in terms of the metric system. I know a fellow in the construction business who lamented our continuing use of feet, inches and fractional inches as a source of costly mistakes. He claimed that he was able to cut costs by having his employees use metric only measuring tools. A lot easier to add, say 100.7cm to 13.9cm than to add 39 5/8" to 5 15/32" quickly, and get the correct results to make your cut. For most of my career I've worked in companies that lived or died by exporting. Sure puts your company at a disadvantage on the world market place if you try to sell things built to US customary units out side the US. Even the SAE has switched to metric.... Side story: Back in the early 1970s one of my fellow students had a summer job building chicken coops in Nebraska. He mentioned a time when he was to measure for some blocking and he called out "10cm". The carpenter bawled him out for using foreign junk measures and told him to do it again. So he made a show of re-measuring and then said it was the same length as a Benson & Hedges 100 cigarette. The fellow had no complaints and cut it perfectly. Edited July 23, 2012 by TodFitch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plymouthy Adams Posted July 23, 2012 Report Share Posted July 23, 2012 then why do we still have yard sticks and inches on our tape meaures...I will give you the metric system from day one in as much as apothecary and some precious metal weights..why do we have tons of SAE hardware at the store and only a smattering of metric in over the counter sales..while the system may not the most favored..it is still quite supported..one day I will wake up and find that we should all be speaking Sasquashian..being a dinosaur, I will now go dust off my cave paintings..to old to change...!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ggdad1951 Posted July 23, 2012 Report Share Posted July 23, 2012 in college, metric was SOOO much easier to do all the engineering in, units converted way easier....but I admit, I'm a foot and inch guy at heart! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NiftyFifty Posted July 23, 2012 Report Share Posted July 23, 2012 There's a time and a place to use both methods, being in farming we use acres not hectares and typically spray is mixed by US gallons not imperial gallons or liters. Most people still belt out measurements in inches, but that being said the automotive sector is big on metric so if you want to work on vehicles of the last 30-40 years you better have a metric tool set. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pflaming Posted July 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 23, 2012 To close the metric debate, I'm 73 and I can see a foot or a yard or a mile, but I still cannot envision a kilometer for example, so it's what we grew up with. My only argument is when I buy something, in this case a master cylinder attached to a porportioning valve which are connected by two small pipes with one end metric: the other SAE AND both fittings have the SAME shoulder construction and color. To me that is industrial indifference to the consumer. Now back to this neat master cylinder swap. I like it and I think 4 mula-dix has made a significant contribution to our hobby: I thank him for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Balazs Posted July 23, 2012 Report Share Posted July 23, 2012 This country will never truly switch over. It is not in our genes. Just look at all the things that work against this.....from legal descriptions to common plumbing and it is obvious that centuries from now the old measurement systems will still be in use here. And I say that is OK. Makes it that much harder for anyone outside to try and take us over. Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plymouthy Adams Posted July 23, 2012 Report Share Posted July 23, 2012 in-part....Makes it that much harder for anyone outside to try and take us over. Jeff that may be the single identifier to weed out and define the dissidents...if you ask for a foot of hose, quart of milk, bushel of wheat, or how many miles to the next town, you get shot on sight... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Balazs Posted July 23, 2012 Report Share Posted July 23, 2012 Tim; Then so be it. Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ggdad1951 Posted July 24, 2012 Report Share Posted July 24, 2012 what if it takes a fortenight to get an answer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
48Dodger Posted July 24, 2012 Report Share Posted July 24, 2012 Been in the medical field for 28 years (Radiology)...................metric Been wrenching on old iron for longer...................................sae Been wrenching on the mix sized nuts vehicles for 26 years.....sae/metric I never think about it til threads like this show up. What REALLY gets me is the specialty tools/ special lock lugnuts/ hose clamps and the tax code. 48D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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