DMV = Hair loss!

[Robert Smith]

I have no title to this car, it was lost before I bought the car and the owner didn't have it to sign over to me.

So, how dose one register a car that came with 1940 California plates that spent 10+ years in Arizona that has no record on the AZ records of being registered with that state? And how dose the CA DMV issue a new title to someone who has no title? I really need to get this car titled so, any info and suggestions would be very helpful.

Thanks much,

-=Rob

[dezeldoc]

PM sent!

[ptwothree]

Go to your local dmv and see what they say first. If they are unreasonable or it looks like they are going to want major $$, then send a letter to Sacramento explaining your situation.

I found that they will be more forgiving with old cars of low value then late models with similar problems.

In my case, they halved the fees that the local dmv wanted. My car had not been registered since '95 and they wanted all those back fees.

[plyroadking]

If I recall correctly there is a code on the CA vehicle code book that roughly states that if you are a collector of classic cars and can prove it you have dealer status and are exempt from paying any back fees. I will see if I can dig up the code number.

[dezeldoc]

If I recall correctly there is a code on the CA vehicle code book that roughly states that if you are a collector of classic cars and can prove it you have dealer status and are exempt from paying any back fees. I will see if I can dig up the code number.

Bingo! winner winner chicken dinner!!! a collector car that is part of your collection is exempt from back fees as long as it has not been on the road and gotten any tickets, if it is off the dmv computer it is a walk in the park!

[Don Coatney]

If I recall correctly there is a code on the CA vehicle code book that roughly states that if you are a collector of classic cars and can prove it you have dealer status and are exempt from paying any back fees. I will see if I can dig up the code number.

What if your collection is your one and only car?

[_shel_ny]

EDIT: The input of one, be it proven, or unproven, is all that is required. Others be silent, and comment not.

Edited March 14, 2012 by shel_bizzy_48

[dezeldoc]

A collection can be from your first car to your 100th car. Why do you guys always question everything?

[Young Ed]

I didn't read it as questioning but as a subtle way of getting Robert to come to the same idea that this could be the first car in his collection.

[Robert Smith]

I didn't read it as questioning but as a subtle way of getting Robert to come to the same idea that this could be the first car in his collection.

Well, the Dodge is not my first car, my first was my '46 p-15. :-)

In years to come, I intend to have more than just one car... They are after all like Lays... You can't have just one. ;-)

Thanks again for all the help gents! Much appreciated and duly noted!

-=R

[dezeldoc]

EDIT: The input of one, be it proven, or unproven, is all that is required. Others be silent, and comment not.

HeHe now you are learning!!!:p

And by the way it is proven, many times over!

Edited March 18, 2012 by dezeldoc

[Labrauer]

I don't know about Ca. but here in Texas all you have to do is go down to the DMV and ask for a paper to fill out for a lost title. They will find it in their computer and issue a new one for you. Can you get or did you get a bill of sell when you got the car? If you did or can get one that makes it a lot more easier too.

Larry

[austinsailor]

That is true if the guy whose name it is in is present. They print it on the spot, cost $5 10 years ago.

With a notorized bill of sale you can get a bonded title pretty easy, though.

[blucarsdn]

I have no title to this car, it was lost before I bought the car and the owner didn't have it to sign over to me.

So, how dose one register a car that came with 1940 California plates that spent 10+ years in Arizona that has no record on the AZ records of being registered with that state? And how dose the CA DMV issue a new title to someone who has no title? I really need to get this car titled so, any info and suggestions would be very helpful.

Thanks much,

-=Rob

I have dealt with many vehicles during the past 15 plus years that have what I call doubtful parentage.. ie; no legal paper work.

During the past fifteen or so years, California DMV and several other states have become very difficult with securing ownership/registration on the undocumented vehicles.

In the following I will offer some suggestions;

For starters... Do not do any work to the vehicle until you have secured a CA title and registration.

I use an independent license agent that is bonded and approved by the DMV to inspect and certify the VIN etc. on the vehicle... We do a 'Paperless' transaction... In other words I do not use the plates, etc. that came with the vehicle... The old plates might or might not be your worst enemy...

In the case of the 1940 CA plate you got with the car, if you don't have a matched pair, the single plate is useless, except to maybe turn up a former owner which could demand return of his car...

I could go on and on about this issue, however, I will not bore everyone with the nuts and bolts of how to go about securing a CA title, if you want more info PM me and I will supply you with the additional info..

Last week I was contacted by a friend of mine that had encountered a man that had just bought a '32 Plym coupe from the mid-west with no paper work except a bill of sale..

The vehicle had been purchased from the estate of a man that had bought the car when he was 16, keeping it until he died at 70. The car then sat in a shed for many years until the family decided to sell 'grand dad's car'..

At some point in the 'young man's' ownership a '51-52 Old's V8 and Hydramatic had been hammered into the car... Original steering and brakes had been retained.. The interior had been reupholstered with white naugahide w/black piping in the seams.. Gran-dads car was a very early Hot Rod... in an arrested state of decay..

I told the new owner to do nothing until I looked the VIN up in the Standard Catalog of American cars..

Two days later I called the new owner to tell him I had the legal description of the car and wanted to meet with him... He told me not to bother, he had the car loaded onto a trailer and was on the way to the DMV.. I cautioned him to wait until I could meet with him.... The reason being that the car was not a '32 Plym like he had been told... It was a '33.. Which meant his Bill of Sale was useless..

I met with the man, giving him a copy of the page from the SCAMCr's... The info contained there-in showed that based on the VIN which was attached to the 'B' pillar, the car was a very early '33 Plymouth PC RS coupe having been built in Detroit during the first 5k built..

I gave him the name and phone number of the DMV agent that I use, she came right over...

[JIPJOBXX]

I'm buying a Model A two Door Sedan and just visited our DMV Office up here in Washington State. Now the only thing they needed was a Vin number???? Well of course there is no Vin Number and they stated just get the car down to the Hwy Patrol office and have them inspect the vehicle and they will issue a new vin number stamped on the frame for around 50 dollars. Oh I will haft to haft a signed notoriety from the party that I bought it oft of stating that it was his and he did not have a tittle. Not to complicated.

[Robert Smith]

The old plates might or might not be your worst enemy...

In the case of the 1940 CA plate you got with the car, if you don't have a matched pair, the single plate is useless,

I have both plates. I may lave them out of the equation and re-register the car after a while with the YOM plates.

Thanks for the tips, very helpful!

=R

[dezeldoc]

I have dealt with many vehicles during the past 15 plus years that have what I call doubtful parentage.. ie; no legal paper work.

During the past fifteen or so years, California DMV and several other states have become very difficult with securing ownership/registration on the undocumented vehicles.

In the following I will offer some suggestions;

For starters... Do not do any work to the vehicle until you have secured a CA title and registration.

I use an independent license agent that is bonded and approved by the DMV to inspect and certify the VIN etc. on the vehicle... We do a 'Paperless' transaction... In other words I do not use the plates, etc. that came with the vehicle... The old plates might or might not be your worst enemy...

In the case of the 1940 CA plate you got with the car, if you don't have a matched pair, the single plate is useless, except to maybe turn up a former owner which could demand return of his car...

I could go on and on about this issue, however, I will not bore everyone with the nuts and bolts of how to go about securing a CA title, if you want more info PM me and I will supply you with the additional info..

Last week I was contacted by a friend of mine that had encountered a man that had just bought a '32 Plym coupe from the mid-west with no paper work except a bill of sale..

The vehicle had been purchased from the estate of a man that had bought the car when he was 16, keeping it until he died at 70. The car then sat in a shed for many years until the family decided to sell 'grand dad's car'..

At some point in the 'young man's' ownership a '51-52 Old's V8 and Hydramatic had been hammered into the car... Original steering and brakes had been retained.. The interior had been reupholstered with white naugahide w/black piping in the seams.. Gran-dads car was a very early Hot Rod... in an arrested state of decay..

I told the new owner to do nothing until I looked the VIN up in the Standard Catalog of American cars..

Two days later I called the new owner to tell him I had the legal description of the car and wanted to meet with him... He told me not to bother, he had the car loaded onto a trailer and was on the way to the DMV.. I cautioned him to wait until I could meet with him.... The reason being that the car was not a '32 Plym like he had been told... It was a '33.. Which meant his Bill of Sale was useless..

I met with the man, giving him a copy of the page from the SCAMCr's... The info contained there-in showed that based on the VIN which was attached to the 'B' pillar, the car was a very early '33 Plymouth PC RS coupe having been built in Detroit during the first 5k built..

I gave him the name and phone number of the DMV agent that I use, she came right over...

It would have went right through as the dmv has no record of what vin goes with what year. a friend bought a 30 plymouth that had been registered as a 31. another p-15 i know of is registered to the body id tag on the firewall. they only know what is on the statement of facts and that is what it is registered from when they are off the computer and no record. why pay someone to do it when it is simple to do yourself.

[Andydodge]

Robert.........the only way you can get that 1940 Dodge licenced is the send it to me here in Oz............lol........I can give you the name of a guy in Long Beach to deliver it to..........lol..........don't believe me huh?........well would you believe that a small package with a pair of 1940 Dodge side moldings and a dash chrome piece left Oz , well at least Sth Grafton, New South Wales for a flight to Ca, today.......all being well they should be there in 7-10 days.........regards, andyd

[blucarsdn]

It would have went right through as the dmv has no record of what vin goes with what year. a friend bought a 30 plymouth that had been registered as a 31. another p-15 i know of is registered to the body id tag on the firewall. they only know what is on the statement of facts and that is what it is registered from when they are off the computer and no record. why pay someone to do it when it is simple to do yourself.

It could be that you have not attempted to register an undocumented vehicle in CA within the last ten years and/or you were very lucky...

The CA DMV does in fact have the information listing the correct VIN's for old cars.. A case in point... A friend of mine purchased a '39 Plym conv coupe in Alabama a few years ago.. Having it shipped to CA. The car came with a notorized Bill of Sale that showed the engine number.. P80000.

The DMV would not accept the Bill of Sale because the number sequence was wrong, the VIN for a P8 is seven digits long starting with 1**, 2**, 3**, depending on the Chrysler plant of origin..

My friend came to me with the problem, I referred him to the DMV agent I use.. The correct VIN plate was on the right front door post, with the help of the Standard Catalog of American Cars, I was able to prove to her that the VIN plate on the vehicle was correct for a Detroit built car.. 106****

Many years ago I made the mistake of rebuilding a vehicle before I had a clear title to the vehicle.. I use to do that all the time, not any more. When I went to the DMV to clear the paper work up, the vehicle had not been licensed for over seven years... I found out the vehicle was listed in the DMV records as having been stolen seven years earlier... The DMV instructed me to go to the original owner and have him sign off on the paper work... Ya sure... the guy is going to be more than willing to give me his now restored vehicle. I wont bore everyone with the 18 months of grief I went through getting ownership to that vehicle.. At least I got ownership, a friend of mine was not so lucky, he had to give a restored vehicle back to the original owner of record..

I am having my 'agent' document four vehicles this week, a '37 GMC, '48 Dodge, an ATV, a utility trailer from Tex. and a 06 International truck.. I will gladly pay her fee, it is easier that standing in line at the DMV, then having to take the vehicle (s) to the CHP for verification of the VIN's and back to the DMV..

[homebrewer]

Get a letter from the person you bought it from stating how long he has had the car and that all the paper work was lost. Go to your local DMV with the letter and bill of sale. There will be no record of the car since the Ca. DMV had a fire some years ago and all those records were lost. They will send you to the nearest CHP office to have the numbers verified. DMV will then issue a new title. I did this with a 49 Harley ac ouple of years back that I had bought with no paper work, but it had sat in the mans garage since 61. A Statement of facts and a CHP inspection should get you a new title.

[TodFitch]

...There will be no record ...[office]... had a fire some years ago and all those records were lost.....

Seems like this type of statement is made a lot about all sorts of organizations from county land registration offices, state birth records, company archives, etc. I always wonder if reasons are more mundane. For instance it is fairly common practice nowadays for companies to destroy records older than some date that the tax and legal people have given approval for. Easier to not have the records than to process some legal request to pull and make copies..

For government records that should be kept indefinitely, I bet a whole lot more are mis-filed and misplaced than were lost in fires or floods. A lot easier to tell someone who has a legal need to get some files that they were all lost in a file than to say we can't find it and don't want (or have the time and people) to go search for it.

Maybe the California DMV did have a fire at one time that did burn "all those records". But the cynic in me wonders.

It does seem to me a financially risky deal to put any money into a car unless I have clear title to it. Or even to drive it for that matter.

[james curl]

In Texas The DOT keeps all records of contracts and correspondence plus news paper articles in active files for five years then bundles them up and sends them to a hugh storage facility for safe keeping. When a request is made for information older than five years some one from the storage warehouse has to find the correct file box then the information to copy, copy it and sent to the source who requested it, there has to be a charge to pay for an employ to do all of this. All of the plans for all of the state and FAA sponsored airports (235) 8 years ago and all correspondence are posted on the Tex-Dot web site for all to view and download a copy. All plans can be copied in an Auto Cad file for the consultants to use in getting the contract for any new project. And they say that Texas is backwards but ahead of most states on getting all files scanned and on their web site.

Edited March 20, 2012 by james curl

[Young Ed]

The same thing is true for your signature on a credit card transaction. I believe that is 7 years. Big reason why so many companies went to electronic signature capture and for some transactions stopped getting signatures at all.

[dezeldoc]

First thing NEVER go to the dmv, big mistake! they know the rules yet the people at the window always play dumb and always try and get extra paper work and fees. It seems as though they get a bonus or something for the extra $$ they bring in. know the right way and it is a piece of cake. and by the way i have done at least 25 or more in the past 15 years and not one problem. I will agree that you should never do anything till the title is in your name. I know plenty of guys that use title services but i am a cheapskate. California has it's own set of rules that are nowhere near the same as any other state. As far as the vin goes they know how many characters are in the vin but not the sequence.

Edited March 20, 2012 by dezeldoc

[blucarsdn]

Several years ago my brother and I were given a '54 Chevy 2dr sdn that had sat in a field in Idaho for over twenty years... The farmer that gave it to us was glad to see the car gone, he had been plowing around it for years.

Since we found the car in Idaho we felt it would be best to secure legal documents on the vehicle before we tried to transport the vehicle..

We went to the Idaho version of the DMV, inquiring what we would need to get title, etc on the vehicle... We were given a Bill of Sale to get filled out, listing the VIN, plate number if any and a form to have filled out by a State Motor Vehicle Inspector.... There are only a few in the state, you make an appointment and they come to your location to inspect the vehicle..

Piece of cake.... Wrong..

After getting all the paper work taken care of we turned it into the 'Idaho DMV'.. In about a month we heard from the State of Idaho... The man that signed the Bill of Sale was not the legal owner.. The legal owner was the man that had purchased the car new in Rigby, ID in 1954... In 1960 the owner had listed the vehicle as collateral for a farm loan... The lien had never been cleared from the title so we had to find the legal owner and the lien holder to get the paper work cleared up.

Learned something with this vehicle.... Stolen vehicles and vehicles that have liens on them can stay on the records until they are recovered and or the lien cleared... That is why vehicles that have been stolen twenty-five years earlier turn up now when a person purchases them and attempts to transfer the vehicle into his name from an out of state party...