DLK Posted January 14, 2012 Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 In October before putting my 50 Dodge away I posted that I was thinking of a rebuild. My engine is tired and blows a lot of blue smoke but generally runs good. It only has about 65K original miles. 1. Since I don't drive that much what about just having a valve and piston job done without pulling the engine? Will the ring job cut the smoke and oil consumption? Do I really need bearing work with an engine that runs good and will not get driven that much? I assume if the pan is pulled new pistons could be put in without pulling the engine. 2. Is there a way short of pulling the pan to see if I have a rope or neoprene rear seal? If using busycoupe's "replace the lower half of a neoprene seal only" would cut 80-90% of my bad leak I would be happy. I herniated a lumbar disk in December. I do not have the tools, garage or back to allow me to pull and rebuild my engine. I am hoping for a solution that makes my car more drive-able and is relatively affordable (under $2k) without me doing all the work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plymouthy Adams Posted January 14, 2012 Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 increasing the top end compression without regard to lower end and new bearings is false economy..you have to remove them anyway to re-ring..they are only inserts..mic and inspect the cranks and ensure you can go back without a resize..install new std or +.001, +.002 or +.003 bearings as the wear dictates..do inspect the mains while you are there..they can be rpelaced in block.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james49ply Posted January 14, 2012 Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 If you decide to do an in-chassis rebuild, make sure the bore is not worn more than 0.010" as the new rings will not be able to do their job. These old castings would wear rapidly, and a rebore is common, thats why pistons go to 0.090 oversize. It is worth a try, but check the bore and bore taper before you do anything. My pennys worth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenbomb Posted January 14, 2012 Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 For $2K maybe you could find a good used motor (Do your research!) and pay someone to swap them out. I realize there's a lotta possibility for buying a "pig in a poke". (Do your research!) This approach might save on the 'ol back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Martin Posted January 14, 2012 Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 I have rebuilt 4 engines in car. New rings ,rod bearings, main bearings, front and rear seals, and ground valves. Never had any problems. Did a v8 studebaker this way and drove it between Ill and Calif 3 times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
55 Fargo Posted January 15, 2012 Report Share Posted January 15, 2012 I have rebuilt 4 engines in car. New rings ,rod bearings, main bearings, front and rear seals, and ground valves. Never had any problems. Did a v8 studebaker this way and drove it between Ill and Calif 3 times. I have also known many others to successfully do this on their engines with good results..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DLK Posted January 15, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2012 For $2K maybe you could find a good used motor (Do your research!) and pay someone to swap them out. I realize there's a lotta possibility for buying a "pig in a poke". (Do your research!) This approach might save on the 'ol back. With the interchangeability I have given some thought to a newer (late 50's) Plymouth or Dodge engine to get a little more pep. If the price was right I could even buy a rebuildable one and have it rebuilt then dropped in my car. I want a fairly stock car but matching numbers aren't that important to me on a driver and noncollectable car like my Wayfarer. Buying a "rebuilt" motor carries no warranty which does cause me some concern if I don't know the seller. The other advantage of a replacement motor of course is I could drive the car this summer with the mosquito control intact while getting a second engine rebuilt. I know I can look back in the archives but as I recall my fluid drive bell housing will bolt onto any later model shorter block flathead even if it had a 3-speed stick or Powerflite. Isn't the only difference with fluid drive cars the length of the transmission input shaft? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Coatney Posted January 15, 2012 Report Share Posted January 15, 2012 With fluid drive you do need an 8 bolt crankshaft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
54Illinois Posted January 16, 2012 Report Share Posted January 16, 2012 Anyone please correct me if I am wrong...Find an early pre-1954 engine, no PowerFlite. From what I am told, is the crank is longer. I have yet to measure the two. But, the blocks should be the same (25"), you could try swapping the cranks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DLK Posted February 6, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2013 In October before putting my 50 Dodge away I posted that I was thinking of a rebuild. My engine is tired and blows a lot of blue smoke but generally runs good. It only has about 65K original miles. 1. Since I don't drive that much what about just having a valve and piston job done without pulling the engine? Will the ring job cut the smoke and oil consumption? Do I really need bearing work with an engine that runs good and will not get driven that much? I assume if the pan is pulled new pistons could be put in without pulling the engine. 2. Is there a way short of pulling the pan to see if I have a rope or neoprene rear seal? If using busycoupe's "replace the lower half of a neoprene seal only" would cut 80-90% of my bad leak I would be happy. I herniated a lumbar disk in December. I do not have the tools, garage or back to allow me to pull and rebuild my engine. I am hoping for a solution that makes my car more drive-able and is relatively affordable (under $2k) without me doing all the work. Well it's another year and still no decision. With health issues 2012 was pretty much a bust. I have the money for a complete rebuild but then I think why would I spend that much when I drive the car 500 miles a year max and would never get the money back in resale value? I guess like many others I need to decide if this hobby is important enough to me to sink that much more money into it. It would be nice to have a car I could cruise in at 60 in without leaving a cloud of smoke behind or worrying about throwing a rod through the block. It is embarrassing to slow down after cruising for any length of time to see the huge cloud of blue smoke. But then I think with my bad back by the time I pay to get the engine and clutch rebuilt and other needed mechanical work I will be out 4 grand at least. I guess this is the year I either go for it or sell it. I realize now there is no point in rebuilding the engine without rebuilding the clutch and a new throwout bearing which probably has never been replaced in 60 years so the engine will need to be pulled for any rebuild. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
55 Fargo Posted February 6, 2013 Report Share Posted February 6, 2013 Well it's another year and still no decision. With health issues 2012 was pretty much a bust. I have the money for a complete rebuild but then I think why would I spend that much when I drive the car 500 miles a year max and would never get the money back in resale value? I guess like many others I need to decide if this hobby is important enough to me to sink that much more money into it. It would be nice to have a car I could cruise in at 60 in without leaving a cloud of smoke behind or worrying about throwing a rod through the block. It is embarrassing to slow down after cruising for any length of time to see the huge cloud of blue smoke. But then I think with my bad back by the time I pay to get the engine and clutch rebuilt and other needed mechanical work I will be out 4 grand at least. I guess this is the year I either go for it or sell it. I realize now there is no point in rebuilding the engine without rebuilding the clutch and a new throwout bearing which probably has never been replaced in 60 years so the engine will need to be pulled for any rebuild. Yes a decision,and yes it ends up being a fair chunk of change. This 1 decision only you can make, and how much it's worth to you, and you only, regardless of any resale value. Being that your engine has only 5k, is it still possible to just have a valve and ring job done. At the same time, clutch job, not super expensive or real big deal either. How is the oil pressure, did you perform the usual compression test etc? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
54Illinois Posted February 6, 2013 Report Share Posted February 6, 2013 I found a used motor on Craigslist this time last year. Has newer pistons, and runs great. $200 was the cost. I will keep my eyse open for you. Where in Minnesota are you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Young Ed Posted February 6, 2013 Report Share Posted February 6, 2013 Dave you might really get by with just a rering and or valve job. Some would consider if halfassed but its worked for many before. We could get a crew over there and pull it down some sat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DLK Posted February 13, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2013 Dave you might really get by with just a rering and or valve job. Some would consider if halfassed but its worked for many before. We could get a crew over there and pull it down some sat. Probably true Ed but what about the bad rear main leak? It is unlikely I (we) could address that without pulling the engine. And it really is a bad leak anytime I visit a friend with a blacktop or concrete driveway I have to park in the street. I still haven't figured out if I have the rope seal. I had a injection in my back yesterday and it has relieved about 80-90% of my pain for now. The car will be in storage until about May 1st so I have some time to make a decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DLK Posted February 13, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2013 I found a used motor on Craigslist this time last year. Has newer pistons, and runs great. $200 was the cost. I will keep my eyse open for you. Where in Minnesota are you? If you see one again yes please let me know. I am not worried about matching VIN's my car is a driver. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
austinsailor Posted February 13, 2013 Report Share Posted February 13, 2013 You can have your clutch and pressure plate rebuilt for around $70. There's a place down the road from me where I've had mine done, it was in the links for a time but I don't find it. I can get their name and number if you'd like. There is also a local machine shop that has been doing these things for years. If you can get the motor here, it's around $1600 for a rebuild. And - if you were just doing this for an investment, you wouldn't have messed with it in the first place! Just fix it, drive it and let your executor worry about it's value. You're not going to sell it anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
austinsailor Posted February 13, 2013 Report Share Posted February 13, 2013 Didn't mention, this is in Central Missouri. (Can't seem to edit the post, what's up with that?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james curl Posted February 13, 2013 Report Share Posted February 13, 2013 We have people here on the forum who are going to V8 power and have an old engine to get rid of, they should be cheap if they are close. I would not pay more than $250.00 for a complete rebuild-able MoPar 218 or 230 engine because it will cost close to #2500.00 in parts and machine work to do a first class job on the rebuild. That would be if you and some friends pulled the engine and dissembled before taking it to a good machine shop so that they can measure the bore and the crank journals for the machine work. You should install new valve guides in the process so that the valves will seat properly after grinding. The flywheel should be ground flat and a new or rebuilt clutch and pressure plate installed as well as a new pilot shaft bushing so that you will not be pulling the engine or transmission later to replace them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DLK Posted February 15, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 15, 2013 You can have your clutch and pressure plate rebuilt for around $70. There's a place down the road from me where I've had mine done, it was in the links for a time but I don't find it. I can get their name and number if you'd like. There is also a local machine shop that has been doing these things for years. If you can get the motor here, it's around $1600 for a rebuild. And - if you were just doing this for an investment, you wouldn't have messed with it in the first place! Just fix it, drive it and let your executor worry about it's value. You're not going to sell it anyway. I love that last paragraph. Watch Barrett Jackson people regularly take a loss on $200k cars so what am I worried about? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DLK Posted March 11, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 11, 2013 I just had a stent put in my coronary artery two weeks ago but am doing ok. That is why I have been away for a while following my cardiologist's advise. I am still contemplating an engine rebuild. I see a 230 flathead on craigslist for $300 out of a 52 Dodge pickup. I found a friend who has a hoist and would pull my engine and am debating whether to have Adelman's rebuild mine or just buy a rebuildable 230 and do the swap after the job is done. Since my 50 Wayfarer has fluid drive I wonder if there would be issues with bell housing bolts or crankshaft length.doing a swap with a later 230 or from a vehicle without fluid drive?. Young Ed or anyone else - any thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobT-47P15 Posted March 11, 2013 Report Share Posted March 11, 2013 At one time, a few years ago, I had a 50 Dodge engine put into my 47 Plymouth (which has the normal 3 speed standard trans). The crankshaft had the 8 holes needed for fluid drive, but the Plymouth setup needed only four of them.....and all was fine. However, if you try putting a Plymouth engine into a Dodge.....it seems you're gonna be about four holes short. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Young Ed Posted March 11, 2013 Report Share Posted March 11, 2013 I just had a stent put in my coronary artery two weeks ago but am doing ok. That is why I have been away for a while following my cardiologist's advise. I am still contemplating an engine rebuild. I see a 230 flathead on craigslist for $300 out of a 52 Dodge pickup. I found a friend who has a hoist and would pull my engine and am debating whether to have Adelman's rebuild mine or just buy a rebuildable 230 and do the swap after the job is done. Since my 50 Wayfarer has fluid drive I wonder if there would be issues with bell housing bolts or crankshaft length.doing a swap with a later 230 or from a vehicle without fluid drive?. Young Ed or anyone else - any thoughts? You need to make sure the crank has enough bolt holes for the fluid drive unit. You need 8 some engines only have 4 or 6. Personally I think you're better off rebuilding a currently running engine than something of questionable history. You just have to deal with the downtime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DLK Posted March 11, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 11, 2013 I should have done more homework before my last post. Soon after I posted I researched here and on the H.A.M.B board and saw the flywheel and bolt issues. Guess if I decide to put out the big bucks (a big if) I will stick them into my engine. Thanks for all the suggestions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scruffy49 Posted March 11, 2013 Report Share Posted March 11, 2013 The crank in the 57 Savoy engine has 8 holes, the flywheel only took 6 bolts. 230 that came with a 3 on the tree behind it. Have not pulled the 48 P15 218 from the 49 B1B to see what it has hole wise. Standard 3 speed top loader truck transmission behind it. The complete donor set up from the Savoy cost me $125. Gave away the bell, flywheel, clutch components, trans and 12v bits a couple weeks ago. And still think what I paid for the core 230 is fair. Get a donor engine, overhaul it on your bench, back porch, tarp covered picnic table, etc. Then get your friend to help you swap them over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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