BobT-47P15 Posted October 2, 2010 Report Share Posted October 2, 2010 Here's a wiring diagram. Get out the ol magnifying glass - makes it easier to see where things to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Young Ed Posted October 2, 2010 Report Share Posted October 2, 2010 Below is a picture of my old coil. In looking at it now that it is out of it's spot in this picture it says "No External Resistor Required". Also in the picture below is a silver box with all of the wires going to it. Is that my Voltage Regulator? If so, that is the piece that sparked when I accidentally nudged it with my ratchet. The new coil does not say anything like the old one did...Any thoughts gents? Jon The silver box is your solenoid as Bob mentioned. Typically hitting it with something metal wouldn't hurt it long term. If your new coil does not say internally regulated then you need a resistor like Don showed or the new one won't be around long. Personally I believe you are better off to have an external resistor setup as the resistors don't seem to last all that long. Lots of guys with 60s mopars keep an extra one in the glove box! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homebrewer Posted October 2, 2010 Report Share Posted October 2, 2010 I had the same problem once in Fiat 124 Spyder. Wrong coil, no resistor. It would burn up a set of points in about 100 miles and would die. I used to buy points by the six pack until a fiat mechanic finally told me I had the wrong coil. I changed to one with an internal resistor and no more problems. Check the points for pitting and proper gap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fedoragent Posted October 3, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 3, 2010 Folks, I'm back up and running. Mackster and I were able to meet, he had an extra cap and points. Replaced the cap and points...AND WHAMMO! Like I said...I don't like points...has anyone had luck with the solid state stuff? Thanks folks! Jon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg g Posted October 3, 2010 Report Share Posted October 3, 2010 Points need a bit of attention and care. But once you know the system you can usually get your car running again with a screwdriver and a match book. The stricker to clean them and the match book cover to set the gap. With electronics, they either work or they don't. So the likely hood of a road side fix is close to zero. Guess folks have gotten spoiled by modern systems, but I would rather be able to spend about 30 bucks, for cap, rotor, and points, than 10 times that just for the diagnostic charge to fix an ignition problem in a modern set up. Crank sensors, knock sensors, ecu conections, TPS connections, coil packs or a coil on each plug. Too much made in china or hecho off shore stuff to fail. While I do like the ignore it and forget it aspect of the new stuff, the trade off in expense far out weighs that when it fails and the toss and replace mentality of you friendly honest and helpful modern shop gets their greedy fingers under your hood. Perhaps a trip to the library, and a read through the old MOTORS manual automotive operating systems review chapters and basic trouble shooting charts should be recommended reading for anybody who is young enough ot to have grown up with basic ignition and fuel systems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mackster Posted October 3, 2010 Report Share Posted October 3, 2010 (edited) Folks,I'm back up and running. Mackster and I were able to meet, he had an extra cap and points. Replaced the cap and points...AND WHAMMO! Like I said...I don't like points...has anyone had luck with the solid state stuff? Thanks folks! Jon it was nice to meet you Jon, i am glad it was something that i coluld help you with...til next time, i will see you around here on the forum! Edited October 3, 2010 by mackster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Elder Posted October 3, 2010 Report Share Posted October 3, 2010 Good job Mackster, now you might want to replace that coil before it burns out this set of points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andydodge Posted October 3, 2010 Report Share Posted October 3, 2010 Coils will usually have the letter "R" included in their part number to indicate that they require a resistor............not using a resistor when required is a complete waste of a new coil............andyd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fedoragent Posted October 3, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 3, 2010 We found that the coil was fine. I installed that one back in the car. FG. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hkestes41 Posted October 3, 2010 Report Share Posted October 3, 2010 Folks,I'm back up and running. Mackster and I were able to meet, he had an extra cap and points. Replaced the cap and points...AND WHAMMO! Like I said...I don't like points...has anyone had luck with the solid state stuff? Thanks folks! Jon There are several who run the Mini-HEI from Langdon's Stovebolts. I have htis setup and am perfectly happy with it and the performance. http://stoveboltengineco.com/index.php/catalog/?page_id=89#ecwid:category=361515&mode=product&product=1222043 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Coatney Posted October 3, 2010 Report Share Posted October 3, 2010 (edited) Glad you found the problem. Dont discount ignition points. As has been mentioned roadside repairs can be done with points requiring no parts. But with electronic system parts are most always required for roadside repairs. So if you convert to an electronic system you must carry parts with you all the time or you will once again be on the hook. I have converted my distributor to a dual point setup. I did this as this dual system increases dwell time allowing more coil saturation time for a stronger spark. The other benefits are longer point life due to a slighter decreased point gap as well as having a built in set of replacement points. Should one set of my dual points fail I simply disable that set of points and run with the remaining set of points until correct repairs can be made. I drove my car over 35,000 miles on the original set of points. And I have now driven several thousand miles after replacing the points. Edited October 4, 2010 by Don Coatney Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Davey Posted October 4, 2010 Report Share Posted October 4, 2010 I know we've all strayed from the original thread to the topic of electronic ignition conversions. Pertronics makes a drop in electronic system that replaces the points and condensers in the original distributor. I have used this system on an old boat (cheby V-8) since 1999 with no failures. One nice feature is you can keep the old points/condenser and reinstall them if the thing ever fails. They make conversions for a bazillion different vehicles including 6 volt positive ground. Replace the points with the sensor, slip the "reluctor" over the cam that used to open the points, hook up 2 wires and you're done. The kit for my 55 C-3-B8 was about $100 for the conversion and another $40 for a low resistance coil that claims much higher spark voltage at cranking speeds and low RPM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mackster Posted October 4, 2010 Report Share Posted October 4, 2010 I know we've all strayed from the original thread to the topic of electronic ignition conversions. Pertronics makes a drop in electronic system that replaces the points and condensers in the original distributor. I have used this system on an old boat (cheby V-8) since 1999 with no failures. One nice feature is you can keep the old points/condenser and reinstall them if the thing ever fails.They make conversions for a bazillion different vehicles including 6 volt positive ground. Replace the points with the sensor, slip the "reluctor" over the cam that used to open the points, hook up 2 wires and you're done. The kit for my 55 C-3-B8 was about $100 for the conversion and another $40 for a low resistance coil that claims much higher spark voltage at cranking speeds and low RPM i have use them in every vw bug i have ever owned. fedoraagent being a avid vw person may be well aware on how great this system is...in the plymouth, i will still run points. i dont mind. aside from having an extra set in my box of goodies, i dont worry much. and greg g...i just added a set of matches in my box of goodies. thanks for your info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony_Urwin Posted October 4, 2010 Report Share Posted October 4, 2010 When I was a kid, my dad used to use my...uhh..cigarette papers to set the point gap... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mackster Posted October 4, 2010 Report Share Posted October 4, 2010 When I was a kid, my dad used to use my...uhh..cigarette papers to set the point gap... thats a great story! i will try to remember that incase i cop pulls me over and ask me about this stuff... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg g Posted October 4, 2010 Report Share Posted October 4, 2010 Just make sure you don't use all the matches and then throw the book away......you don't want to loose a valuable tool while in an altered state. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hkestes41 Posted October 4, 2010 Report Share Posted October 4, 2010 The Langdon's Mini-HEI is all S-10 V6 components so parts are readily available at any parts store. There are far fewer parts to wear in the electronic system and there is no need to adjust the points as the block wears on the cam or as the contact surfaces wear. The HEI also produces a hotter spark for more efficient cleaner burning of the lower octane fuels of today. From an AutoZone Car Care Encyclopedia The need for higher mileage, reduced emissions and greater reliability has led to the development of the electronic ignition systems. These systems generate a much stronger spark which is needed to ignite leaner fuel mixtures. Breaker point systems needed a resistor to reduce the operating voltage of the primary circuit in order to prolong the life of the points. The primary circuit of the electronic ignition systems operate on full battery voltage which helps to develop a stronger spark. Spark plug gaps have widened due to the ability of the increased voltage to jump the larger gap. Cleaner combustion and less deposits have led to longer spark plug life. Electronic Ignition systems are not as complicated as they may first appear. In fact, they differ only slightly from conventional point ignition systems. Like conventional ignition systems, electronic systems have two circuits: a primary circuit and a secondary circuit. The entire secondary circuit is the same as in a conventional ignition system. In addition, the section of the primary circuit from the battery to the battery terminal at the coil is the same as in a conventional ignition system. Electronic ignition systems differ from conventional ignition systems in the distributor component area. Instead of a distributor cam, breaker plate, points, and condenser, an electronic ignition system has an armature (called by various names such as a trigger wheel, reluctor, etc.), a pickup coil (stator, sensor, etc.), and an electronic control module. Essentially, all electronic ignition systems operate in the following manner: With the ignition switch turned on, primary (battery) current flows from the battery through the ignition switch to the coil primary windings. Primary current is turned on and off by the action of the armature as it revolves past the pickup coil or sensor. As each tooth of the armature nears the pickup coil, it creates a voltage that signals the electronic module to turn off the coil primary current. A timing circuit in the module will turn the current on again after the coil field has collapsed. When the current is off, however, the magnetic field built up in the coil is allowed to collapse, which causes a high voltage in the secondary windings of the coil. It is now operating on the secondary ignition circuit, which is the same as in a conventional ignition system. Electronic ignitions, of course, do not need distributor maintenance as often as conventional point-type systems; however, nothing lasts forever. The distributor cap, rotor and ignition wires should be replaced at the manufacturer's suggested interval. Also, because of the higher voltages delivered, spark plugs should last anywhere from 30,000-60,000 miles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Elder Posted October 4, 2010 Report Share Posted October 4, 2010 You can adapt the slant 6 electronic dizzy and keep it in the family:D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Powerhouse Posted October 7, 2010 Report Share Posted October 7, 2010 Howdy all... Just saw this post now...kinda been busy with work and had NO time for the real important stuff...like this forum. Seems like ya got it all figured out Fedoragent. I have been stranded many times with my old cars...I too can become a REAL Son of a BEACH. Take my word for it Don, Fed is a good guy. Back to the "POINT" of this message...hehehe, I have since replaced my 56 dizzy (converted to dual points) with the old 47. I just can't get spark out that thing anymore....new points wires and all. Crazy thing. ANYWAY, I am thinking of doing that electronic slant 6 conversion. Anyone have some pointers? I'd like to do the Langdon's HEI...but I'm not 12 volt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dezeldoc Posted October 7, 2010 Report Share Posted October 7, 2010 I put the langdon in my 50 and it fires off on the first hit every time, timing stays put, and as mentioned above all s-10 so easy to get parts for and much easier to find than the /6 ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Elder Posted October 7, 2010 Report Share Posted October 7, 2010 Powerhouse,It involves mating your original shaft, welding, with the /6 shaft....and converting to 12 volts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Powerhouse Posted October 7, 2010 Report Share Posted October 7, 2010 Powerhouse,It involves mating your original shaft, welding, with the /6 shaft....and converting to 12 volts. Mating my shaft? I guess I should get a slant 6 dizzy and check it out. I might be able to turn and machine a new shaft at the shop...and make a few extra if I can. Hmmm? Makes Langdons setup sound REALLY WORTH IT! I'd still need to convert to 12v though.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg g Posted October 8, 2010 Report Share Posted October 8, 2010 Question, since the distributor uses a HEI unit to charge and discarge the coil, HEI being hall effect induction not High Energy Ignition, basically using a magnetic field to trigger the make and brake stuff, would the system be voltage sensitive. or would it fire work with 6v?? I bet it would be more polarity sensitive than voltage sensitive. Or not...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hkestes41 Posted October 8, 2010 Report Share Posted October 8, 2010 Question, since the distributor uses a HEI unit to charge and discarge the coil, HEI being hall effect induction not High Energy Ignition, basically using a magnetic field to trigger the make and brake stuff, would the system be voltage sensitive. or would it fire work with 6v?? I bet it would be more polarity sensitive than voltage sensitive. Or not...... Greg, Actually the HEI does operate at a higher voltage than a standard points ignition. The points ignition uses the resistor to reduce the voltage while the HEI does not. That is why the plug gap in a points ignition system is in the 30 to 35 thousands while an HEI with the higher voltage is able to jump across a 65 thousands or so gap. See the into I posted above from the Autozone Car Care Encyclopedia. Below are links to further references to the higher voltages of HEI from various sources. http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/techarticles/67498_hei_coils_modules/index.html http://www.familycar.com/Classroom/ignition.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Powerhouse Posted October 8, 2010 Report Share Posted October 8, 2010 I wonder what would happen if ya put an HEI Dizzy(like Langdon's) n a 6v system? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.