1948 Plymouth "Serial" numbers don't fit period

[Mino Diaz]

This is the first time I have written in, most of the time I am reading everything that I can to learn from other members experiences. Well I have come across a 1948 Plymouth Special Deluxe 2 door Coupe that I want to buy. It does not have the original engine, its currently a Mopar 318, but that's ok because I wanted to tow a travel trailer on vacations anyway.

The problem I have is the serial/vin. number doesn't seem right, its to "HIGH" of a serial number. The door jam serial tab reads "P15917207". According to our own P-15/D24 web site under "Reference" some 1948 Plymouth Coupes were made in Detroit, and they started with numbers 15252279 - 15284536 ! All the other factory locations have a different series of numbers.

The dealer that has the vehicle could not find the "body number" next to the left hood hinge to help narrow things down. When he plugged in the serial number thru a on line "decoder" dealers use, it didn't turn up anything.

But he does have a title with the serial number in hand.

My questions are -

(1) "did Plymouth serial/vin numbers come with the letter "P" in front of it? I have not read anyone make a reference to a letter before the serial numbers.

(2) I read about the "frame" number location above the rear axle, just in front of the gas inlet tube. I understand that it should match the engine number (which is no longer there) could this number help truly identify this vehicle.

(3) I found out that Chrysler made Dodge vehicles in Canada during those post ware years. But nothing is said about making Plymouth's. I only bring this up in case they did and had their own serial number series.

I really want to buy this vehicle, but if its not a true 1948 then I will pass. I want a 48 because its my Birth Year.

Thank You in advance

Mino Diaz

[Young Ed]

I wonder if at some point the car was renumbered to match the engine #. That P number sounds like the factory engine numbers and some states used those on titles back then.

[old rat 49]

Check out thead "P15 year ?" It may be a First series 49 like mine. Also check out the thread "NC Title" I had lots of fun with mine because the State data base does not include the few 49 P15's.

[P-12 Tommy]

Hi Mino, Welcome to the group. You've found the best flathead site on the WWW. Ed has a good point.

Tom

[BobT-47P15]

Hello and welcome to the forum.

Regarding numbers on the model P15 46-early 49 Plymouths........the number on

the side of the original engine would start with the model designation of

"P15" followed by some additional numbers.

There is a "Body by Briggs" tag on the firewall, which simply is the body

number assigned by Briggs Manufacturing Company, who indeed made

the bodies.

There is a "Serial Number" tag on the left front door post.

I'm not really sure what those numbers represent, but they do

not normally begin with "P15".

The number on the frame near the left rear wheel is the same as the

number stamped on the engine, beginning with "P15", etc.

If your door tag has a P15 on it, there's a good chance it's not an

original item, but redone by some previous owner.

I bought an early 49 coupe and the title had the door post number

on it rather than the motor number. But the car had been titled in

another state at one time......so I can't tell why that number was

used.

If your car looks like all the other 46-48 Plymouths, it's the right

style........then the trick is to pinpoint the year. Try finding the

frame number to see if it matches what's on the door post.

This one is a P15 model......built during the first 3 months of 1949, so

it's an "early 1949".

[BobT-47P15]

And, as I'm sure you probably know, the "late '49" style looks like this.....

[TodFitch]

I wonder if at some point the car was renumbered to match the engine #. That P number sounds like the factory engine numbers and some states used those on titles back then.

This sounds like the best explanation to me, assuming that is really the number off the door tag.

If I exclude the "P" from the front of that number and treat it as a serial number (15917207) then it would be for a 1956 Plymouth with a V8.

But since that "serial number" is stated to start with a P15nnnnnn it would seem to have the format expected for an engine number.

[old rat 49]

Mino, I too wanted a Birth year 48 and as it urned out my 49 was supposedly built in Dec (which works for me) but became a 49 model even though NC titled it as a 46. The frame number which you may have to wire brush to see will give you an accurate number to work with.

[greg g]

a pic of the serial tag might show weather it is an Original or may have been reinvented by a previous owner.

[oldmopar]

Others will help you figure out the serial # however if there is a doubt in your mind that it is not the car for you pass it by there are more out there.

[Mino Diaz]

Thank you all for your comments and feedback.

I am attaching a jpg. Photo sent to me by the dealer, of the serial number. Please click on it to zoom in close. If any of you feel this looks to "new" or the "type" is to shallow in depth, then this may indeed be a reproduction type tag made to now match the frame number. Please remember that the original engine is gone. I will be calling the dealer Thursday and get him to verify the frame number.

Thank You

Mino Diaz

[BobT-47P15]

I would say it's a newly made tag, not original.

You can't read the numbers on mine as the paint is gone from it,

but my tag is more perfectly rectangular than the one you showed.

And that line around the edge of the numbers doesn't look right

either.

[BobT-47P15]

My Plymouth Service Manual, printed in March of 1951, says about

starting vehicle numbers......

P15 Deluxe

Detroit 15,154,001

Los Angeles 26,000,001

Evansville 22,042,001

P15 Sp Deluxe

Detroit 11,496,001

Los Angeles 25,000,001

Evansville 20,165,001

My door tag number has 8 digits, beginning with 117, --- --. (47 Spec Dlx)

Edited September 23, 2010 by BobT-47P15

[JerseyHarold]

That tag looks bogus to me.

[Eneto-55]

Looks like a home-made tag to me, too, as the others have already said. I'm wondering now, is there a data base some place that would tell what year vehicle an engine with a number in that range would have been installed in originally? Or like going from the frame number to identify the year (in the case where the engine is gone)?

Neto

[james curl]

What is the serial number of the 318 installed in the car? Could this number on the plate be a combination of P-15 for the car and the following numbers for the engine serial number to satisfy the motor vehicle department for a VIN number?

[PatS....]

If the car was originally titled using the engine number and the engine was replaced, maybe this replacement "serial number plate" was used to ensure the correct number followed the car/title.

If the car was titled using the engine number, with that engine no longer in place, the serial number would not match anything causing the title to not match that particular car...a big problem.

The new tag solves that problem for title purposes.

If that's the number on the title, it's a keeper.

In order to ID the year of manufacture, the frame number would need to be located and deciphered. Mine on the 49 Chrysler is above the axle on the drivers side frame.

Edited September 23, 2010 by PatS....

[oldmopar]

Depending on what state you live in a incorrect vin# could be a problem. Do the numbers on title for the vehicle have match the plate on the door jam

[Roadkingcoupe]

If the car was originally titled using the engine number and the engine was replaced, maybe this replacement "serial number plate" was used to ensure the correct number followed the car/title.

If the car was titled using the engine number, with that engine no longer in place, the serial number would not match anything causing the title to not match that particular car...a big problem.

The new tag solves that problem for title purposes.

If that's the number on the title, it's a keeper.

In order to ID the year of manufacture, the frame number would need to be located and deciphered. Mine on the 49 Chrysler is above the axle on the drivers side frame.

I believe that Pat S is correct in the assumption that the door jam # is the original engine #. I have owned a car from the US that was registered to the motor # as the VIN. The tag maybe phony but I too believe the # is the original engine # as found on the motor and the frame.

[TodFitch]

For the 1930s there are reference materials that give the engine number range for each year. I just looked and I don't have that for the 1940s, but if that is available some place then I bet you'd find that the given "serial" number matched up to an engine number.

In the 1930s the serial number tag actually said "Serial Number" I thought that was true in the 1940s too. Here is one I found on the net that is the same style as the one on my car. Is the P15 the same?

[Young Ed]

Mines kinda flaked off but my p15 one is the same or very similar to the one pictured. If I ended up with that car I'd have the P# off the title stamped onto one of those plates and call it good.

[greg g]

Certainly looks like a manipulated tag to me. It definately is not factory. The number also seems tp be an engine number or a corruption of one. If the number ont he paper work agrees with that "tag" and is comig with other paper work from a "certified dealer" from the state you live in, you probably would not have difficulty arrangine for new ownership papers. So if your really hot to have a vehical made in the year of your birth, as close as you can come is that the car is from the model series that was built during that year. If the paper work says 48 then so be it.

Mine is a built in 46, but was originally registered in Jan of 47 so the paper work I got from the owner stated it was a 47. When I re registered it, I changed it to 46 ad the DMV didn;t have a problem so it went through and is now papered as a 46.

If its a decent car and meets your need, you can probably assured that oparts of it were made in 48.