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richards47deluxe

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we need to know what car you are working on, and where you are with restoring. on my 50 Ply P20 I did everything except off frame restore. so I was able to rewire no problem. so if you can get to all the wiring, I strongly sugest you rewire. I did my wiring one wire at a time. use the same guage and color code. Per. service manual. it takes a little time but you can do it. or you can buy the wire harness all made up. kinda spendy! and don;t forget to up grade the battry cables. other folkes here on the forum will have other advice. this is a great place to come for help. good luck on your project.

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I am a novice mechanic and I rewired my pilot house truck. Got a spec sheet and laid it all out on the bench.

Were I to do it again, like Ruth above, I would 'unwrap' all wiring so that each wire is independent, get the tools, wires, and connectors I need. Then I would get a helper. Finally together get a wire loose, attach a new wire, and pull in the new wire as I pulled out the old one. I think one could rewire the harness of an old car in about 8 hours.

I even rewired the headlight and tail light sockets. That takes a little more time but I am glad I did it. Brakes are next!

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My Dodge was rewired by the previous owner. He did a pretty good job, but for the life of me I cant understand why someone would rewire a car and not convert it. I know people say 6v is ok but cars are 12v now for a reason. Running 6v makes everything electrical work twice as hard, therefore last half as long. 1/2 the voltage 2x the amps. I know I don't post to this site much but I've been doing this a loooong time so I know what I'm talking about. Moral of the story, if you gunna rear wire it DUMP THE GENERATOR AND CONVERT IT. Save yourself the headache.

Adam

P.S. Yes my grounds and terminals are clean but always chasing something electrical

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... but always chasing something electrical

Hmmm. Aside from battery replacement every 3 to 5 years I haven't had much issue with the 6v electrical system on my car. The only electrical issues that come to mind are:

1) The hydraulic brake light switch failed this summer after at least 12 years of service. I'm not positive but I think the switch that was on there was the one on the car when I got it in the 1970s.

2) They don't make single wire fuel level sending units with the correct resistance range needed for 1930-35 Plymouths, so I have been futzing around trying to get something to work that is reasonably accurate.

So I don't really understand why one would always be chasing electrical issues simply because the car has a 6v system.

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Not to mention if you rewire for 6v you will have large enough capacity to handle 6v. If you use smaller wires suited for 12v you'd have to rewire again to go to 6v.

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The one wire at a time method works fine and you do not have to understand anything about the system to do it. It is very important that you use the proper wire size and colors. To get the wire size, you almost need to see a wiring diagram for your car. From the diagram, it will also show color. Do not use the same color wire for the entire car as is it makes it difficult to trace wires for any possible electric problem.

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My point was if I was going to rewire a car as the origional poster stated he was going to do, it would be FOOLISH not to convert it and not worry about it. IMHO. There is a reason vehicles are 12v now. OH and generators just plain SUCK

Edited by Adam H P15 D30
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Hello Everyone,

Lots of information and great ideas.

thanks all for your responses. Being a Chevy guy all my life, learning a lot from this forum about my Plymouths. But I know I will be asking many more questions as I work on them.

thanks!!

Richard richard@sjdist.com

1947 Plymouth Special Deluxe Club Coupe

1947 Plymouth Special Deluxe 4 Door Sedan

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after so many sparks, hot terminals and rolls of black tape, I am done with trying to repair the wiring!!! Any ideas? Want to rewire the whole enchilada.

As previously stated, you have several options for rewiring. If you want to retain originality, then duplicate the original with period correct replacements...or "build your own" . Even convert to 12V if you want. Certainly your choice. But before you begin, take the time to thoroughly familiarize yourself with the vehicle's wiring. Develop a "game plan" before you start. If you have a digital camera, take pictures, lots of them, before you start disassembly. Mark each wire as you disconnect it, take notes, make sketches, or anything else you think might help during the reassembly process. You'll be glad you did. And get good quality materials for your project. If you find anywhere a wire could possibly get chafed from a sharp edge, etc., slip a length of rubber tubing over it to protect it. If a wire goes thru the firewall, make sure the grommet is OK. Take your time, be your own "quality control inspector", and you'll end up with the satisfaction of doing a good job on your project. Good luck, and keep us posted on your progress.:)

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The wiring in my '53 Windsor looked pretty sad, so I've started rewiring

2012_0822Stuff0006.jpg

2012_0822Stuff0015.jpg

Here's the headlight harness before wrapping with PVC tape

2012_0822Stuff0018.jpg

Here's a completed harness, this is the generator to regulator harness.

2012_0822Stuff0017.jpg

Here's a good place to start. http://dodgepilothouseclub.org/know/wiring_harness/wiring.htm

You find that the truck wiring is very similar to the car wiring for color codes, lengths etc. The only thing that I didn't like was using regular electrical tape to cover the wiring. I used PVC tape (available at Brillmans http://www.brillman.com/store/ ) instead. The PVC tape has no adhesive and let's you unwravel it to find a bad spot if you need to.

Another good reference that I stumbled across is this: http://oldmopar.com/oldmopar/wirecodes.html

It explains the wiring code used in the Chrysler products.

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Hi, I see you've got a 47. I rewired mine last year, was a good project.

There are some fairly lengthy threads on my re-wire - here's the links:

http://www430.pair.com/p15d24/mopar_forum/showthread.php?t=17534

http://www430.pair.com/p15d24/mopar_forum/showthread.php?t=17801

http://www430.pair.com/p15d24/mopar_forum/showthread.php?t=17931

http://www430.pair.com/p15d24/mopar_forum/showthread.php?t=18000

http://www430.pair.com/p15d24/mopar_forum/showthread.php?t=18025

I think that there's some wiring diagrams included in the first thread. I also made a new diagram of my own - happy to email it to you if it will help - PM me.

Rob.

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Purchased it several years ago thinking I was going to buy another P15. I didn't. The harness is for a 12 volt setup. If you're interested, contact me directly via email. fortyseven.plym@verizon.net

David

Hello Everyone,

Lots of information and great ideas.

thanks all for your responses. Being a Chevy guy all my life, learning a lot from this forum about my Plymouths. But I know I will be asking many more questions as I work on them.

thanks!!

Richard richard@sjdist.com

1947 Plymouth Special Deluxe Club Coupe

1947 Plymouth Special Deluxe 4 Door Sedan

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a couple af things... some think you got to completly rewire to convert to 12v. not so... in fact, because of the heavier 6v gauge wire, it is a bigger 'pipe' for the current to flow thru. another thing... if appearance is not important you can repair the insulation that's missing or cracked by using 'liquid tape'... it's available in different colors sometimes. home depot and lowes and walmart sell it.:) haven't found brown however.

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My point was if I was going to rewire a car as the origional poster stated he was going to do, it would be FOOLISH not to convert it and not worry about it. IMHO. There is a reason vehicles are 12v now. OH and generators just plain SUCK

Some people can't wrap their mind around the 6V system, not everyone wants or needs 12v. Regardless of which system you go with add about four inches of wire to your connections under the dash. That way if you have to pull your gages you don't have to get upside down.....just sit in the seat and have at it

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My point was if I was going to rewire a car as the origional poster stated he was going to do, it would be FOOLISH not to convert it and not worry about it. IMHO. There is a reason vehicles are 12v now. OH and generators just plain SUCK

And while you're at it, keep in mind...

They don't use cloth-covered wire anymore — install plastic wire (cloth-covered wiring SUCKS!)

They don't build cars with positive ground anymore — convert yours to negative (positive ground SUCKS!)

They don't use drum brakes these days — convert to discs! (drum brakes SUCK!)

They don't use single stage paint any more — repaint with base/clear! (single stage paint SUCKS!)

They don't build flatheads anymore — convert to overhead valves! (flatheads SUCK!)

They don't use carburetors anymore — install fuel injection! (carburetors SUCK!)

They don't build cars w/o locking steering columns — put one in! (stealable cars SUCK!)

They don't use sealed beams anymore — convert to halogen! (sealed beams SUCK!)

They don't build cars without an ECU these days — you should have one! (non-computerized engines SUCK!)

They don't build cars without energy-absorbing bumpers anymore — you should have them! (solid bumpers SUCK!)

They don't build cars with vent windows anymore — take yours out! (vent windows SUCK!)

They don't build cars without shoulder belts any more — put them in! (cars without belts SUCK!)

They don't build cars without airbags anymore — you should have six! (cars without airbags SUCK!)

They don't build cars without pollution controls anymore — put some on yours! (polluting cars SUCK!)

They rarely build family cars with rear-wheel drive — convert yours to FWD! (RWD SUCKS!)

They don't build cars with 3-on-the-tree anymore — put in a five-speed or an automatic! (3-on-the-tree SUCKS!)

They don't make cars that look like old Plymouths anymore — make yours look like a Toyota! (old car styles SUCK!)

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

Seriously though, there's very little need to replace a properly-maintained six-volt system just because it's six volts!

Personally, and this is only my narrow niche of the old-car hobby, six-volts is part of the charm of an old car, along with drum brakes, vacuum wipers, no-synchro-first-gears, AM radios, positive ground, rear-wheel drive, manual steering, no seat belts, bias tires, etc. etc.

When I get a hankering for air-conditioning, power brakes/steering/windows/antenna, shoulder belts, or starts-even-at-35-below, I'll happily drive my Sable or my sweetie's PT Cruiser.

Mind you, my regular driver is a Model T Ford, so when I get a hankering for something modern, the '47 Dodge will usually do nicely!

As far as generators SUCKING!, in my experience the rebuilt stock generator on my Dodge shows a positive charge on the ammeter at 40 mph with the following switched on: High beams, radio, heater, fog light, panel lights, driving light, and backup light.

Do you really need more output than that?

It's worth reading the excellent link on the P15/D24 website about converting these cars to 12 volts and the many many things you would need to do for a successful conversion. To me, that amount of work and expense SUCKS! and I would just as soon keep the 6-volt system, get it working well and enjoy the car just like old K. T. intended.

Only MHO and your mileage may vary.

Edited by bamfordsgarage
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My Dodge was rewired by the previous owner. He did a pretty good job, but for the life of me I cant understand why someone would rewire a car and not convert it. I know people say 6v is ok but cars are 12v now for a reason. Running 6v makes everything electrical work twice as hard, therefore last half as long. 1/2 the voltage 2x the amps. I know I don't post to this site much but I've been doing this a loooong time so I know what I'm talking about. Moral of the story, if you gunna rear wire it DUMP THE GENERATOR AND CONVERT IT. Save yourself the headache.

Adam

P.S. Yes my grounds and terminals are clean but always chasing something electrical

The reason was that one needs only half as much copper to wire a car in 12v as 6v. That's the reason. Sounds like a silly reason to go to all the additional trouble (gauges). I don't know how many times I heard the adage, "If every one else was jumping off the interstate overpass would you do it too?"

Generators work fine, but there ARE 6v alternators, and a 12v converter works just fine to run a GPS, or charge the cell phone. I've had my P15 for over 20 years, and despite wanting a "thumping sound system" as a teenager, the 6v has worked just fine.

I rebuilt my 6v generator almost 20 years ago, and it is no less reliable than any 12v alternator. I had a '76 Eldo that I had to replace alternators annually.

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Adam H P15 D30: Not friendly to not stock? Hardly...

Read my few other posts, nowhere have I criticized any posters for their disc brakes, 12 volts, mag wheels, whatever. To each their own.

But what does set me off is blanket proclamations of truth like "Generators SUCK!" Just because they don't work for one guy hardly any basis for telling others to get rid of theirs.

And I'm certainly not all-stock-all-the-time — as a matter of fact my Dodge and other cars all have a number of upgrades — not modernizations — but upgrades as might have been done back in the day. That's the kind of car that suits me fine. Your mileage may vary.

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a couple af things... some think you got to completly rewire to convert to 12v. not so... in fact, because of the heavier 6v gauge wire, it is a bigger 'pipe' for the current to flow thru. another thing... if appearance is not important you can repair the insulation that's missing or cracked by using 'liquid tape'... it's available in different colors sometimes. home depot and lowes and walmart sell it.:) haven't found brown however.

...Gee whiz,I hate to strongly disagree with anyone ...but,I would not recommend anyone using "liquid tape".Check out big john's wiring "before" photos...

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Another alternative for poor insulation on old wires is heat-shrink tubing — 3/16" diameter on the 25' roll is relatively cheap, performs well, and the satin-black finished appearance does not look out of place.

Of course, this requires the original terminals be removed first for the tubing to slip over the wire — a bit more work but a very satisfactory result.

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I went the spendy way and bought a complete six volt wiring harness from Y n Z's Yesterday Parts for my 50 Plymouth. I liked their use of all the correct Plymouth wire colors and the use of all those special terminals at the ends of the wires. They sent a wiring diagram too. After 6000 miles and several years of use, I have not had a single wiring failure. Sweet!

Just so you know, six volt systems can be perfectly reliable.

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Wow........ Back to the HAMB. A lot of GREAT info here but if it's not stock, not very friendly

I think that this is an unfair statement about this forum.

There are plenty here who have non-stock cars for lots of different reasons, each of their own. And there are good reasons to go to a 12v system if you need to. However stating that a 6v system performs an unnatural act, to translate your inappropriate word, is not a reason.

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I ran a 6V system for a number of years, with modern 6V 60W halogen headlights (with headlight relays) and a 6V alternator.

I finally switched to 12V after several failed attempts to get a working accurate factory fuel gauge, because all of the universal ones I found were 12V. Otherwise it would still be 6V.

Marty

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Since the discussion is about rewiring, a useful tip I've used a number of times is to snake a length of polyethylene tubing (available at your local hardware store) from "point A" to "point B" where the wire needs to be. Secure it with ty-raps, tape or whatever you need, then feed the wire through the tubing and make your connections. The tubing acts as a conduit, adds an additional layer of protection for the wire, and makes it easier to snake a wire through a congested area. Use polyethylene tubing, not Tygon. the Tygon is too soft, and makes pushing the wire through it a bit more difficult. Also, if you use Teflon insulated wire, that slides into the tubing very nicely. An added bonus to this is that should the wire ever need to be replaced, just pull it out, and slide the new one in. It can make a difficult job much easier.:D

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