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Rear transmission seal


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I need a rear transmission seal but haven't had great luck finding the right size. I've made several trips to several parts stores (NAPA, Smythe, KOI) over the past week trying to find the correct size seal. The best I have found so far is Federal-Mogul 1216N. The ID is a tight seal to the yoke, but the OD is only snug inside the bearing retainer. I can push the seal into the retainer without a hammer, and pull it back out by hand.

Any opinions on whether this will work for me? The seal has a flange so I can't stake it. Will permatex hold it against the pressure?

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I've had trouble with this part too. Roberts Motor Parts sells the closest thing to NOS as I have found, however I (or my transmission rebuilder) were not able to install it because it seemed oversized. The seal is made of mild steel with a leather seal just like the original. I think the leather is a good thing but I am interested in others experience and opinions on this topic.

My transmission rebuilder found and used the newer type...(sorry, don't have a p/n or mfg.) thin metal and what would appear to be a high quality urethane or something like that. I believe it is the source of one of the reasons I should invest in the company that makes the drip-pans I use.

I'd like to help you solve your problem and at the same time learn something here for next go-around.

Hank :)

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Hank, I've searched the forum posts, and found several part numbers suggested. Both Tod Fitch and Merle Collins found the part number for the rear trans seal to be 600420. Tod suggested that this would cross to National 5737 or Victor 49115. Unfortunately, these part numbers did me no good at NAPA, KOI, or Smythe. I even tried NAPA part #15620, which is the P-15 rear seal (it's too small).

I took the yoke and retainer into the parts stores and several guys have measured the parts and ordered seals for me. National 1216N (1.575 x 2.528 x 0.472) is the closest I have found so far. Like I said, the OD is just not a real good tight fit. A few thousandths larger and it would have been perfect.

Greybeard suggested Speedy Sleeve # 99159, which fit the yoke perfectly.

I wish Merle or some of the other great mechanics here would chime in and offer their opinion whether I should try to install this seal with some high temp permatex. Mama don't allow no oil spots round here!

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Sometimes I won't even try part numbers for out of production seals and bearings unless I am bored. I just get the ID, OD, and thickness dimensions,,call a bearing house and they send me a seal for that size. I am in Dayton and they have several,,,I know cincinnati has a few. If you have the old seal, they will cross reference a modern part # for you if avail. Not the dodge part#,,,the manufacture # on the seal.

Here are 2 from Dayton

Motion Industries 937-236-7711

Applied Industrial Tech 937-276-5340

Edited by razerface
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Well Tony, I did do a little research on this the other day and came up blank during my brief research time. 600420 is the original Mopar P/N for a 3 speed seal, but I couldn't find any valid crosses for it.

If the one you found is pretty close it might work with some Loctite Sleeve and Seal retainer. 215733.jpg A liberal dose around the outer edge of the seal when installed (let it cure) should hold it in place.

Merle

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Thanks, Merle. I appreciate the advice. Of course, I will curse your name all over the forum if it leaks (just kidding)

I did have a great experience while searching for the rear seal. I was standing at the parts counter at NAPA when an old man walked through the door and asked if someone would help him carry in an AC compressor. Turns out he was Charlie "the Whip" Davis, one of the stars of the old Negro leagues. What a guy! For 40 minutes, he told me stories about bunking with Charlie Pride (who played baseball before he turned to music) and how he pitched 20 games against Satchel Paige. Made my day!

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It always amazes me how the 39-47 group and this site often run paralel topics. Anyway per a recent post in there the part number for the 39-47 3spd rear oil seal is a Gesco 5737 available from http://www.gescoseals.com/

I verified that the 39-47 trucks show the same factory # as the pilot house ones so if the poster on the yahoo group is right that seal is what you need.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Tony here's the latest from the 39-47 yahoo group.

"The recent posts about finding subject seal renewed my quest, which in the past failed. I took the Gesco 5737 to my local bearing shop and they crossed it to a Timken PN. However the dimensions were way off. So I removed the handbrake drum off a spare 3 speed and measured the seal OD & ID. I found a match in the Timken seal specification guide as #471827. Its OD is 2.441, ID is 1.562 and 0.375 thick. The seal was only about 9 dollars. I attached a pic of the original as installed and the new Timken. I hope it works."

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Tony here's the latest from the 39-47 yahoo group.

"The recent posts about finding subject seal renewed my quest, which in the past failed. I took the Gesco 5737 to my local bearing shop and they crossed it to a Timken PN. However the dimensions were way off. So I removed the handbrake drum off a spare 3 speed and measured the seal OD & ID. I found a match in the Timken seal specification guide as #471827. Its OD is 2.441, ID is 1.562 and 0.375 thick. The seal was only about 9 dollars. I attached a pic of the original as installed and the new Timken. I hope it works."

I do wish that people who go to all the effort to find a currently available matching part would post the Chrysler part number for the thing they are matching....

Am I correct in assuming that this Timken seal number 471827 is for the Chrysler part 600420 listed earlier in this thread? If so, I'll add it to my cross reference database.

PS: That Timken number when entered into the NAPA Online advanced search gives a match CarQuest number for a manual transmission rear seal with nearly identical measurements. The NAPA number is NOS 15620 which is listed for $11.50.

Edited by TodFitch
Add NAPA seal number information.
  • Thanks 1
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Gesco Seals is indeed in India, and I have been corresponding with a gentleman there who is sending me a Gesco 5737. He says he won't know the actual dimensions until he gets it from the warehouse.

For what it's worth, the measurements I get are 2.525 from the retainer and 1.581 from the yoke (after a speedy sleeve). So the National 1216N is a better fit for me than the Timken 471827.

I'll post the dimensions of the Gesco 5737 when I get it.

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Gesco Seals is indeed in India, and I have been corresponding with a gentleman there who is sending me a Gesco 5737. He says he won't know the actual dimensions until he gets it from the warehouse.

For what it's worth, the measurements I get are 2.525 from the retainer and 1.581 from the yoke (after a speedy sleeve). So the National 1216N is a better fit for me than the Timken 471827.

I'll post the dimensions of the Gesco 5737 when I get it.

May I know when do you think you are getting this seal from them as I think I know them and have been using them very often.

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According to the emails he sent, he got the seal from the warehouse, and asked me for my address ( I had already given it to him in an earlier email). It's coming from New Delhi, so it may take awhile.

if i am not wrong you are after a metal felt seal with a leather lip.this seal is a press-fit with a step on the outer diameter.

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Well, my new buddy from India who promised to send me the rear transmission seal...it never came.

Found this on eBay this morning. The specs sound right, I'm gonna get one. I'll post a supplier/part number if possible.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1930s-1940s-1950s-1960s-Dodge-3sp-trans-NEW-Rear-Seal-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem5889e1e4d7QQitemZ380270404823QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

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Well, my new buddy from India who promised to send me the rear transmission seal...it never came.

Found this on eBay this morning. The specs sound right, I'm gonna get one. I'll post a supplier/part number if possible.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1930s-1940s-1950s-1960s-Dodge-3sp-trans-NEW-Rear-Seal-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem5889e1e4d7QQitemZ380270404823QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

the listing has has a C/ R number that might be available locally - 15671 - specs look right.

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