pulling the radiator on a P10

[Cpt.Fred]

when i rode home from last weekends show,

i had to stop every few miles to refill the radiator since the car was boiling hot

(way over 212 )

i discovered that i could make about 4 miles when going 65mph, and about 25 miles when going only 40mph, so i sneaked home over the backroads.

anyway, i'll have to pull the radiator now to give it to an experienced person for soldering, i guess.

i haven't really found anything about this on the search engine, at least not for the P10 with its butterfly hood.

do i have to pull the complete nose to get to the radiator?

and let me guess, i have to pull the water tube, too, right?

brrrrr.....

Edited July 27, 2010 by Cpt.Fred

[Cpt.Fred]

i spoke to a good friend a few minutes ago on my radiator problem,

and he asked me:

"what if the radiator isn't your problem? what if it was just boiling and loosing the water through the overflow hose, and the overheating is the real problem?

did you change anything on the engine before the trip?"

i thought for a while and the only thing i did was putting the new vac advance in there.

is it possible that a misadjusted ignition causes that much heat?

the engine had enough power and, so far as i can tell, no spark ping...

i'm a little confused right now, but i think my friends question is a good one.

[Andydodge]

Fred, b4 pulling the radiator I'd check ALL the hose connections, also the timing/etc........if all are o/k then as far as pulling the radiator goes , you have the same setup as I had /have with my Oz 1940 Dodge(Plymouth based, see pic).......undo the upper & lower radiator hoses, then take the hood off, you should be able to undo the radiator and remove it and still leave the radiator surround there(its what the fenders etc bolt onto).......depending on the fan clearance, the fan may need to be unbolted from the water pump the the radiator removed.......there is no need to remove the water pump unless it is the cause of the overheating.......btw all this assumes that the radiator IS THE CAUSE of the overheating........why not take the car to a radiator shop and get them to do a pressure test?...........or is there obvious leaks etc from the radiator?........AND you don't need to even think about the water tube unless and until you have boiled/cleaned out the cooling system and it still overheats, personally I think you have either a timing or radiator problem...... andyd

[Cpt.Fred]

thanks andy,

btw is it morning or evening over there?

you're very often the first person to answer me:)

we have 11.45am over here...

i put the vac advance in and hooked the vac line to it,

then i checked timing with my timing light, wasn't sure if i did it right,

then afterwards used a vaccum gauge and turned the dizzy untill

i reached the green area on the gauge.

i was i a bit of a hurry then, maybe i did it wrong?

best,

fred

[Andydodge]

Fred, its 8.12pm Tuesday night here, you are 9hrs behind me, tho if your on daylight saving make that 8hrs........the Yanks are just thinking about waking up or dozing off(15-18hrs behind)........if you have obvious radiator problems then thats what I'd get fixed first, but while the radiator is out stick a hose in whatever orifice is open..........on the car at least .........lol..............andyd....8.15pm......lol

[Cpt.Fred]

:D:D so i'm the one "behind", right?

(yes, mom, but HE started it...)

seriously, just one more time for the stupid little fred:rolleyes:

how exactly do you time your engine?

vac line attached to the carb or not?

do you use timing light or vaccum gauge? or static timing?

you know, sometimes i think i have understood something completely,

and right then occurs a problem or malfunction that kicks me completety

off the tracks and i'm totally confused.

this time about vaccum advances and everything else related to ignition timing

and possible heating...

Edited July 27, 2010 by Cpt.Fred

[Andydodge]

Fred.........my Dodge has a 318 V8, twin point dissy so i assume you mean the Plymouth as it has the stock 6....I used to set the dissy where the #1 was at the compression stroke, at TDC, set the points and use a timing light to get it spot on...........now it has a Langdon HEI.......runs very well, set & forget.........andyd

[greg g]

Usually overheating at road speed is related to coolant flow, while overheating at low speed is a air flow problem. You can check the flow through the radiator fairly easily.

You remove the lower hose, and block the outlet. Duct tape will suffice. Remove and block the upper hose outlet. Then fill the radiator with water. With the cap off release the lower opening. As the water leaves the lower outlet it should rise in a column about 6 inches high. If not, thet indicates the radiator is not flowing well.

Your problem might just be a loose fan belt where slippage causes the water pump to loose rpm . If your radiator is flowig alright, and ot leaking, then you problem could be caused by rust buildup in the water passages in the engine, would would mean pullig the welch plugs and flushing the gunk out.

[Cpt.Fred]

i don't like that thought at all...

guess i'll try some dish washing tablets or so what i've read here in other threads first. i'll try to flush the system under pressure and see what comes out of it. then i'll try checking the flow, what exactly do you mean with the 6" high column? i have to take a closer look to that lower outlet on the radiator,

i don't remeber what it looks like.

but still:

anyone without HEI witchcraft on board, do i pull the vac line before adjustment or not?

on my opel i had to, i remember.

[greg g]

As the water leaves the radiator it will create a fountain effect which should raise 6 inches before falling over on itself.

[carls 49]

had an overhat problem in my 49. was because it didn't have a thermostat in in it. maybe yours is bad. just a thought.

[Autonut1]

had an overhat problem in my 49. was because it didn't have a thermostat in in it. maybe yours is bad. just a thought.

I have pulled the radiator on my p-10 several times and have found it

easyer to undo the radiator surround and pull them out together.

There is a lot more bolts to remove, but it makes it easyer to get it out

without damaging the honeycomb of the raditor.

I also found that it makes it easyer to remove the fan if needed.

There is limted room between the raditor and the fan blades.

Good Luck!

Autonut1

[Cpt.Fred]

thanks, autonut!

so i can take out all the bolts around the radiator frame without pulling nose and fenders... that's a good thing.

[Andydodge]

Fred, Carls suggestion re the thermostat...have you checked yours?......and Autonut has a point.........take off the hood then there are 2 x 5/8"th bolts on each side that screw into the radiator surround from under the fender about 1/2 way up the side of the radiator surround, also there are 2 X 3/4" nuts to undo that are on the 2 locating bolts at the bottom of the radiator surround, these 2 bolts go straight down thru the front chassis crossmember and are accessable thru the large hole in the front crossmember thats underneath, between the lower inner suspension pivots.....after undoing the 3/4" nuts the surround will be loose, also don't forget to undo the triangular sheetmetal piece that covers the area in front of the radiator top tank, these should be 7/16"th bolts..........check that there is no wiring(headlight?) caught on the hooks under the engine side of the top radiator tank, then with the hood off you should be able to lift(have a friend around to help as the radiator & surround is HEAVY) the radiator & surround straight up and out of the engine bay......NOTE that there should be 2 flat square washers about 2" square that the surround sits on the front crossmember......these are basically a "packing" washer from what I've seen BUT make sure to look for them & reuse them!!........lol........andyd

[Cpt.Fred]

hey andy,

i hope i have some time on the weekend for the car, there's quite a list

now on my table... as you would say: lol

1. double check ignition timing.

2. take out radiator hoses and check them

3. check thermostat (saw a spare lying around somewhere, might check that one, too)

4. put some cleaner into the system, refill it and do a testrun

5. pull the front brakedrums and check cyls since we're pulling to the right side once again:mad:

6.take the master cyl out for the 6th or 7th time, because i'm still having trouble with locked up brakes every now and then

7. take the ignition switch out and bring it to a locksmith

8. take the radio out

you see, it never gets boring with these old rides...

good night to you down there!

fred

[Andydodge]

Fred........yep am back again.........been raining all day and still at it tonight......we need it tho' is good........re the thermostats, you know to stick them in a saucepan of water on the stove, ideally the spouse's best saucepan and throw the thermostat in to see if it opens........lol.........the nice brown stain on the good saucepan will impress the spouse no end.........lol................andyd

[Cpt.Fred]

right.

i'll tell her to send any complaints directly to you per mail. hehehe.

[Cpt.Fred]

ok, on saturday i got to work on the car again.

after a long talk on the phone with andyd (thanks again, mate...)i took the hood off the car

for the first time and drained the coolant. not a pretty sight...

afterwards i decided to look for the thermostat, before checking the radiator's flow. surprise! there wasn't any thermostat in there...

good thing i had a spare lying around. i tested it in a pot, and it opend up well before boiling point, so i guess it's ok to use it.

i was quite happy that there was far less crud and rust in the system (as far as i could see) than i had expected.

i did a testrun afterwards hoping it would be better, and left the hood off so i could see better.

i found that the radiator must have a leak in the bottom,

since there is water on the front crossmember after raising the engine to operating temp.

also, the flow seems a littlebit weak to me according to greg's method.

out it goes! to be continued...

Edited August 2, 2010 by Cpt.Fred

[greg g]

Ouch our environmental folks would be all over you for draining your coolant into a drain, whether it goes to to a treatment plant of to natural waters. Good luck with the rest of your project.

[Cpt.Fred]

i know what you mean, greg, but don't worry:

1. since i lost literally ALL of my coolant on the last trip (repeatedly),

the system only contained clear water (and a healthy rust+ scale mixture).

2. we're working on a yard that used to be old GDR gas station,

all drains and the complete structure itself are built on a sealed concrete cell containing the old gas tanks.

this is so badly contaminated already from leaking russian trucks and 2 stroke oil for 50 years+ that i don't think this will make a difference.

in fact, this is the only reason we're allowed to work there...

[greg g]

Well, I guess that some rusty water is probably the least of the sites problems.

[Robert Horne]

Year ago I had a problem of my vehicle overheating at higher speeds but not driving at lower speeds. The problem was I had a leaking head gasket. I could look into the top of the radiator before the engine fully warmed up and see tiny bubbles going through the cooling system.

[Cpt.Fred]

i haven't seen any bubbles in my coolant, nor have i found water in my oil,

so i hope it's not the head gasket. this would end my season untimely...

i started undoing the bolts of the radiator surround yesterday evening.

i figure i have to take off the nose trim "bridge" to be able to vertically lift

the radiator and surround out of the engine bay, but the two small slotted screws holding it in place at the front of the nose don't think the way i do...

i'll put a little citric acid into the system and let it run for a while,

i guess when the radiator has to be brazed anyway this can only improve the flow and clear up some passages.

[Cpt.Fred]

pulled the radiator yesterday evening the way it was suggested by autonut,

it was an ugly piece of work (not recommended for cars with an expensive paint job) but it came out right away.

now the car looks like a complete wreck:(

i'll grab the radiator later and take it over to a friend for brazing and a pressure test.

i hope i won't have to do this job too often...

[Autonut1]

pulled the radiator yesterday evening the way it was suggested by autonut,

it was an ugly piece of work (not recommended for cars with an expensive paint job) but it came out right away.

now the car looks like a complete wreck:(

i'll grab the radiator later and take it over to a friend for brazing and a pressure test.

i hope i won't have to do this job too often...

Cpt. Fred;

That look's nasty allright! Has the water pump every been replaced?? It might be a good idea to replace it while you have the radiator out.

The outlet on my radiator is offset somewhat from the thermostat housing spout, which made it impossible to install the hose without kinking it. I went to Napa and found a hose that had the right curvature and cut it down to fit. Is this offset normal ?? Or is my radiator not the original radiator??

By the way if you have not reinstalled your radiator yet I found it helpfull to go over the area on each side where the radiator slides in with sandpaper (to smooth rough or rusted areas) and then apply some grease or oil. It goes in a lot smother.

Dan the Autonut