47heaven Posted February 22, 2007 Report Share Posted February 22, 2007 Hey guys...after I get the paint, wiring, and interior done, I'm strongly thinking on having the engine rebuilt. Sure it runs okay, for now, but my confidence in the engine isn't very high because I don't know the history of what's been done to it and what flaws it may or may not have. Nonetheless, I don't want to have to wait for "what's around the corner." Especially, if I'm in the middle of the desert on old Highway 66 or something. Anyway, a friend of mine just had his 223 engine out of is '56 Ford Customline rebuilt from a place called Drivetrain Parts Source in Texas. They apparently rebuild your old engine from new parts, and don't take months to do it. The link is here: http://drivetrainps.com/ Anyway, I talked to Rusty out there and he said the can rebuild my '55 P26 engine for about $1650 + $350 shipping (to and back). All I do is take the engine out, and send it in the transfer case they send and ship it to them in that. In about a week and a half, the engine is rebuilt and back here ready to install back into the car. My friend is installing his engine back in his car now and I'm anxious to hear how it sounds and performs. If it's good, I'll be sold. Has anybody heard or dealt with these guys before? I always like to get feedback on a place before I do business with them. Let me hear your feedback on this. Anything I should know before going through with it? Thanks! Darin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Coatney Posted February 22, 2007 Report Share Posted February 22, 2007 I'm strongly thinking on having the engine rebuilt. Sure it runs okay' date=' for now, but my confidence in the engine isn't very high because I don't know the history of what's been done to it and what flaws it may or may not have. Darin[/quote'] Darin; If you send your engine to Texas for a rebuild you will still not know the history of what has been done to it and what flaws it may have. If you have a local machine shop rebuild it (or do it yourself) you can at minimum visit the shop daily and see first hand what is being done. Rebuilt engines can and will fail in the middle of the desert same as the engine you currently have in your car. This just adds to the challange of the trip. If your engine has good oil pressure and good compression you might want to leave well enough alone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lou Earle Posted February 22, 2007 Report Share Posted February 22, 2007 Don is right. I have had several engines rebuilt to only last a few thousand miles. Before I would do that I would check it out or have it checked out. The Chrysler products of this era already had hardened seats for the valves so that will not present a problem. My experience is that what fails is the externals- generator ,voltage reg., carb, fuel pump, points, plugs, water pump. You can get pretty definite picture of your engine with these simple tests : Vacuum Gage- there are several articles on how to read it - it will tel you if valve guides are weak, valve burned,etc. Compression check- low compression but even - worn some or a lot depending on reading vs new reading or benchmark reading. One low can be several things etc. Close look at tail pipe after 5 mile plus run will let experience person know a lot about fuel system. Any experienced mechanic can pretty well tell you all about your engine from these tests I road test every car I have immediately after I get them in running shape. I run then at 60-65 sustained speed for 40 to 60 miles. That in my opinion will tell the tale and display almost all defects. On a long trip _ I do not do many -no time- I have carried a dist cap,points condenser rotor button. 6 v fuel pump. I have the 6 v pump so I can by-pass the regular one. I do not carry a spare regular pump because I feel they will become "stale" in a few years because the internal parts and rubber or other very flexible material. Of course a decent set of wrenches and tools. As a preventative measure I install an in line filter on all my cars - the cheap transparent one-= that has worked great fro 15 years. If your still doubtful pull the pan and head- you can really get a complete pic there- you can also drop a main if you want and have someone look at it or plastiguage it but if it runs well and no knocks screams or bumps I would leave it alone. I have a bad oil burner/drippier engine in my taxi- so far it has only gone about 2,000 miles at 60 + mph and another,000 around town without a problem except adding oil every 150-200 miesl or so, and 2 grand will but a lot of oil!!! Lou Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueskies Posted February 22, 2007 Report Share Posted February 22, 2007 I think if you are going to go for a rebuild, and will have to pull and re-install the engine yourself, you might as well do the rebuild yourself too. It is not that difficult, and you will have the satisfaction of knowing every nook and cranny inside your mill. It doesn't take but a couple of specialized tools, like a ring compressor, torque wrench, etc. And you'll save some money along the way. I had never rebuilt an engine prior to rebuilding my '50 Plymouth's engine, and I'm so glad I did it myself. I pulled the engine and did all of the dis-assembly. Then I had a local machine shop hot tank the block, bore the cylinders, balance the rotating parts, and install the cam bearings, cam, valve guides, and valves. I did the rest of the re-assembly myself. Just getting the engine out of the car, and back in after the rebuild is half the work. It was fun, and I learned quite a lot about how these engines work. I now know that I can fix anything that may go wrong with it in the future. Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Young Ed Posted February 22, 2007 Report Share Posted February 22, 2007 I agree with the others about not fixing what isn't broke. Do the testing first and see where you are at. Both my vehicles have rebuilt engines but that's because my truck came without an engine at all and the coupe was knocking bad and had no oil pressure at idle once warm. Pete any updates on your mystery noise? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1just4don Posted February 22, 2007 Report Share Posted February 22, 2007 Is there a set of torque specs and a blow by blow detail of how to reassemble an engine?? I think I could do it too,,,if somebody taught me how ,,,the first time. What to do,,,what NOT to do!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueskies Posted February 22, 2007 Report Share Posted February 22, 2007 Is there a set of torque specs and a blow by blow detail of how to reassemble an engine?? I think I could do it too,,,if somebody taught me how ,,,the first time. What to do,,,what NOT to do!! The repair manual I have for my '50 has very detailed information on rebuilds, with all the needed specs. That coupled with this forum and the POC forum, and you have all the knowledge base you could ever need... Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plymouthy Adams Posted February 22, 2007 Report Share Posted February 22, 2007 be sure your count is only 2 thumbs out of 10 digits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueskies Posted February 22, 2007 Report Share Posted February 22, 2007 Pete any updates on your mystery noise? Ed- I was going to pull my car out of winter hibernation on Saturday, but we are supposed to get 7-14 inches of snow today and tomorrow... Man, I'm ready for winter to be gone! I've cleared out my garage for the Plymouth, and as soon as I can drive across town from where it sits, the first thing I'm going to do is pull the oil pan and have a look at the rod and main bearings. If I don't find anything suspect in the bottom end, I'm going to pull the valve covers and look for a broken spring maybe. I need to adjust the valves anyway, which will be a major chore because of the tube headers (heater, headers, and intake all have to come off to get to the valve covers)... Not sure what else it could be except maybe the fuel pump, which only has a few thousand miles on it. Once I have gotten to the bottom of the "noise", I will tear the front end down for a rebuild. Lots to do before Tulsa! If there's any time left after getting all the mechanical stuff done, there's the upholstery... Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knighthawk Posted February 22, 2007 Report Share Posted February 22, 2007 I'd like to comment here.I've rebiult a couple engines,, a few pointers here, mainly keep everything as clean as possible, and little dirt in the right place can do a lot of damage. Also, take a lot of notes as you take it apart, pictures of the outside is helpful too. I have restored vehicles without the factory manuals, just by making notes and taking pictures !! And also, don't be afraid to ask questions ! DO take a copmression test first, so you know where you are at and what excactly has to be done ...........P.S. ..a little common sense is also required ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norm's Coupe Posted February 22, 2007 Report Share Posted February 22, 2007 Darin, I agree with Don Coatney and Lou Earle. If the engine is running good, I'd just leave it alone. Like Don mentioned, rebuilding an engine does not mean you won't break down someplace. In fact, most engine break downs are caused by some minor problem, such as fuel pump, generator, etc. The only reason I rebuilt my engine was because it was only running on 3 1/2 cylinders when I bought the car. My engine is good and strong (like new), however on the 4th of July last year the car gave me trouble when I was just about 5 blocks from home. Had just left the house to go fill up the tank. Got 5 blocks away and the car stalled. Finally got it started again and limped back home. Got in front of the house next door and it stalled again. This time I wasn't so lucky and couldn't get it started again. My neighbor had to tow me into my driveway. What caused the problem? The fuel pump died. That same thing has happened to others. In fact Pete (blueskies) also broke down for the same reason. His fuel pump also died. So, even with our rebuilt engines, we both broke down due to a minor problem. You can't forsee those kinds of problems until they actually happen. So, do what you think is best for your peace of mind. I'm just saying that rebuilding the engine won't prevent some type of breakdown in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueskies Posted February 22, 2007 Report Share Posted February 22, 2007 In fact Pete (blueskies) also broke down for the same reason. His fuel pump also died. Yup' date=' brand new fuel pump crapped 70 miles into my inaugural Bonneville Speed Week trip.... Thankfully I had tripple A. I'm glad I wasn't any farther from home or it would have cost me alot more than a new pump... There's no way to change the pump from the top on my car, and it's too low to get underneath without jack stands, so a roadside fix was out of the question. You never know when you might need a tow, even when everything under the hood is brand new. Pete [img']http://www.50plymouth.com/03-otr/bville05/breakdown4.JPG[/img] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lou Earle Posted February 22, 2007 Report Share Posted February 22, 2007 I find in my purchases of cars in the condign your is in ( per the pic on your profile) have frequently already had the engine work done. My taxi burns and drips oil but it is obvious the engine was re done- I cut the dripping way down by tightening the bolts on the timing chain cover!! Think about it - 1-most of these cars are bought by men. 2-most men including me who buy them like god running vehicles 3 most make sure the car is reliable. 4 most then drive them while fixing other parts. Also give the age it is almost impossible for one engine not to be rebuilt or replaced. So if you do not have the knowledge to diagnose your engine find someone who does and check it out first. An engine with no rattles knocks good compression smooth idle etc is just as good and maybe better than a newly rebuilt engine-in my opinion. Believe me you will be amazed at what ruiing a mix of 3 to 4 gallons of gas and a pint of sea foam addative will do for your engine and fuel system alsong with a good tune up. I drove my taxi to Tim's house and back 120 miles-with a pint of sea foam in about 5 gallons of gas on the way and there several of us thought we heard a knock at idle when I got there . Might have actually heard one do not know. Butwhen I got back home at end of trip no knock now 2000 miles or so later still no knock and a great running car. Actually the best starting I have. no knocks or sputters at all . Lou Lou Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grey beard Posted February 22, 2007 Report Share Posted February 22, 2007 Saw recently on another forum a MoPar service bulletin on flattie tapping noise that sounded like a rod or valve tap - coming from a worn pressure regulator spring that let the valve chatter at certain engine speeds/oil temps. Remember, the cardinal rule of thumb for diagnosing engine noises is to check the eastiest things first. I'd chech the pressure reg valve spring, then the engine valves, and drop the pan last of all. JMHO:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Young Ed Posted February 22, 2007 Report Share Posted February 22, 2007 Actually with all Pete has to do to get to his valves the pan sounds easier! Plus if I remember correctly he had a leaking pan gasket anyways. I had to swap the pan on my 48 and it was a pretty quick deal. There's still something a little suspect with the oil pressure in my 48 too. I've swapped the pressure valve and spring and it still drops lower then I'd like when warm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobT-47P15 Posted February 22, 2007 Report Share Posted February 22, 2007 My fuel pump seems to make a little noise.....kind of a hollow sounding thing, not really exactly a clicking. Naturally the rhythm is at same speed as the idling engine. Not really loud enough to hear while driving, but at idle with the hood up. My 1957 Plymouth 6 was supposedly rebuilt several years ago by the previous owner.....don't know if he did his own work or not.....but it basically runs pretty well. Like Lou's car, it drips a little oil and it uses a little oil, but not enough to worry about. Have run some Marvel Mystery Oil in both the oil and the gas.....may not help notably, but can't hurt. So will just keep on trucking until some big thing happens. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueskies Posted February 22, 2007 Report Share Posted February 22, 2007 Saw recently on another forum a MoPar service bulletin on flattie tapping noise that sounded like a rod or valve tap - coming from a worn pressure regulator spring that let the valve chatter at certain engine speeds/oil temps. Remember, the cardinal rule of thumb for diagnosing engine noises is to check the eastiest things first. I'd chech the pressure reg valve spring, then the engine valves, and drop the pan last of all. JMHO:) Dave- I don't think it's the pressure regulator spring, but I suppose it's possible. The sound is a deep tone, not a "chatter" sound. It sounds like a low pitched knock to me, but I can't determine where it's coming from even listening to it with a long rod to my ear like a stethoscope. I think the only way to find out is to get inside for a look-see. And, I have a leaking pan gasket, so I'd planned to pull the pan anyway. The pan is definitely the path of least resistance too, considering all that has to come off to adjust the valves. My only regret, is the tube headers and their proximity to the block... Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueskies Posted February 22, 2007 Report Share Posted February 22, 2007 Actually with all Pete has to do to get to his valves the pan sounds easier! Your right Ed, the pan will be the easiest place to start... My oil pressure has been rock steady at 55 lbs regardless of engine temp or rpm since I first started it. You would think if I had a bad bearing it would fall off... Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norm's Coupe Posted February 22, 2007 Report Share Posted February 22, 2007 Ed- If I don't find anything suspect in the bottom end, I'm going to pull the valve covers and look for a broken spring maybe. Pete Pete, I doubt that the noise is a broken valve spring. Usually a broken spring will cause poor compression and a miss in the engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Young Ed Posted February 22, 2007 Report Share Posted February 22, 2007 I'm not sure what's up with mine. I have 2 218s both rebuilt by the same guy. Its a 1 man shop so I know he did both. The one in my truck is a 52 block and my coupe is a 48. Both show 45 when cold. In my truck after a long drive when its good and hot the pressure drops to about 38. Just below 40 on the gauge. Same circumstance in my coupe and the pressure drops to 20-25. I swapped the relief valve and spring with the later style and that seemed to help a little but it still seems a little off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knighthawk Posted February 22, 2007 Report Share Posted February 22, 2007 sometimes you can find a knock, from the bottom end, by reving up the engine from a slow idle, to what a fast idle would be , just by ''cracking '' the throttle. you can determin if it's a wrist pin or a bearing, rod or main. The sound will change when you speed it up or when you let it fall., I don't know anymore, which is which, but a least It'l tell you knida where it is. A fuel pump noise usually can be picked up with the screwdriver to the ear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James_Douglas Posted February 22, 2007 Report Share Posted February 22, 2007 Darin, Take the engine apart and take the bare block in and have them tank it for you. Then take it home and get a set of engine brush's and clean the hell out of it. Run the brushes through the crank oil hole as well. Then take the whole thing into the shop and have them tank it again with the rest of the parts. have them rebuild it. But, Just have them put do the bottom, but leave off the pan and timing cover. Take the engine home and hand wipe it down very very well. Put on the timing cover and the oil pan. Then clean the cylinder's with paper towels and ATF. Do it like 10 times. When clean, wipe the block face with a clean cotton rag with alcohol. Same with the head. Put the gasket on and the head. By doing the final assembly yourself, you provide the rings with the best chance of seating in fine in the first few minutes. The shop will not take the time to clean it as well as you will and you may not have the tools or the skills to do a proper assembly. The process I outlined can give you the best of both worlds. The experience for a proper bottom end assembly and the quality of extra time in cleaning and preparation. I did mine this way and when I fired it off, it sealed in 3 to4 minutes flat. It sealed so fast, I wondered if something was wrong. I have good compression and fair power (Ask Don C). If you go this route, you can get plenty of help here from the gang. James Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james curl Posted February 23, 2007 Report Share Posted February 23, 2007 Pete, I would be very interested in what you find in your engine, I seem to have developed the same problem. From under the car with the engine running I can hear the knock in the very rear of the engine. With stethoscope the only places that I can pick up the noise is at the oil port above the pressure valve and the starter, have removed and shimmed the spring five times, still have the noise. From under the car I have listened to the rear main, the bell housing and transmission, no noise. I rebuilt the engine myself and now after 1600 miles it has developed this noise. I am going to try to adjust the valves Saturday, not looking foward to it. My exhaust pipes are welded together and sit just above the transmission crossmember and will be hard to move around to see the valves. You can only hear the noise with the hood open and under the hood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knighthawk Posted February 23, 2007 Report Share Posted February 23, 2007 Don't forget guys, sounds travel. Just because you hear it someplace dosen't mean that's where it is. Sometimes a screw driver to the ear works better than the stethiscope. Also don't forget to check the crankshaft end play , the floating back and forth creates a clunk also. This may change by pushing the clutch in and out while running, if it's a straight stick, that is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james curl Posted February 23, 2007 Report Share Posted February 23, 2007 Crank had the thrust bearing faces welded and turn to stock specs. I have had three friends listen and no one can place the sound. It is a clicking sound much like a loud lifter but deep in the engine. Listened to the oil pump and the distributor thinking that end play in either one could cause the sound but only got the rotating sound at both places. Sound is there with the clutch engaged or disengaged. Once the engine is reved up the sound disappears into the canorous sound of the engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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