Joe Flanagan Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 I was installing my flywheel today and the very last one of the four bolts stripped. I was using a torque wrench and tightening them down to the specified 55-60 foot pounds. The bolts are 7/16-20. I took a die and tried cutting new threads on the bolt and it came out nicely--I thought. Second attempt: Stripped. Don't know what happened. They are the originals and maybe weak, corroded, whatever. Now, it looks like I'll have to drop the pan again, which I just did a couple of weeks ago. I'll also have to buy my third oil pan gasket. Unless I can try a 3/8 die on the bolt and see if that will cut a new set of threads. Any comments on that? My first thought is that might be too much material to try and take off of a 7/16 bolt. The other is that 7/16 was specified for the flywheel for a reason: torque. If I manage to cut 3/8 threads on the bolt and have the other three as original, am I compromising the strength of all four? My guess is, not really, but I'd like to hear other ideas on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1949P17BC Posted November 17, 2009 Report Share Posted November 17, 2009 Joe, I know this is after the fact. But on all of my work I always chase the holes and recut each bolt just to make sure everything is clean. Not sure on your anwers, but I woudl bet you could retap and be okay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Flanagan Posted November 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 17, 2009 You know, I did that for my head bolts and some other bolts on the engine. I don't know why I didn't take the time to do it today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Coatney Posted November 17, 2009 Report Share Posted November 17, 2009 Joe; If these bolts will work for you I will send 5 of them to you. I had to shorten them a bit but they worked for me. They have a shoulder that extends through the flywheel and into the crank shaft recess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Flanagan Posted November 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 17, 2009 Thanks Don. I appreciate the offer. The only problem is the way my crank flange is configured. You can't get a nut to sit flat because it rides up on a raised portion of the flange. A little hard to describe, but I've tried it and I couldn't get it to work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Coatney Posted November 17, 2009 Report Share Posted November 17, 2009 Call George Asche and see if he has a replacement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Flanagan Posted November 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 17, 2009 If you mean a replacement bolt, I have four extras. The problem is you can't get them in without removing the oil pan and the cap to the rear main bearing. I decided to take the day off and see if I can use a 3/8 die on the bolt. Will report any progress or lack thereof. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james curl Posted November 17, 2009 Report Share Posted November 17, 2009 When I changed the crank the last time, I also had one of the bolts not take the torque specified before striping. I pulled the pan and rear main again and replaced the bolt and nut. I do not think you will be too successful with the 3/8 die cutting new threads on the bolt. That is a very tight area in the flywheel to be working a die on the bolt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodney Bullock Posted November 17, 2009 Report Share Posted November 17, 2009 Hey Joe, I was wondering why I did not hear from you yesterday. You know who would know exactly what to do, don't you;) It's time to pay the old guy a visit. I don't know why you are inclined not to ask him stuff. I think he really liked you:p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Flanagan Posted November 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 17, 2009 Rodney, I would have been all ready to go if this hadn't happened. I'm going to try a last ditch effort to save the bolt. If it works, I'll call you and we can drop her in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Flanagan Posted November 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 17, 2009 OK. The bolt is not salvageable. Stripped out again. Time to drop the oil pan for a third time. Has anyone had any luck reusing their oil pan gasket? I've got Permatex on both sides of mine, so I don't think I'll be able to reuse it, but if I'm really careful??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Young Ed Posted November 17, 2009 Report Share Posted November 17, 2009 Joe if it comes off in one piece you are good to reuse it. If it tears time for a new one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Normspeed Posted November 17, 2009 Report Share Posted November 17, 2009 Joe, what an ordeal! If it's a cork gasket and if you used #2 non-hardening permatex, I'd guess that you could re-use it after such a short time assembled. If you have a full set of new replacement bolts it would be a good idea to replace 'em all. Hate to see another one go bad after the pan is back on. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Flanagan Posted November 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 17, 2009 Norm, I just now pulled the pan. I do have cork at the ends. I used a putty knife to slide in between the block and the gasket, breaking the Permatex seal there. The pan came off with the gasket in good condition stuck to the bottom of it. My plan is to scrape the sealant off the block, apply a fresh bead, and bolt the pan back down, gasket and all. If any man feels this union should not be, speak your mind now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Flanagan Posted November 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 17, 2009 Pan is back on. New bolt is installed. Getting ready to torque them down. Stay tuned. I have a hoist standing by in case it all works out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james curl Posted November 17, 2009 Report Share Posted November 17, 2009 I usually cover the block side with bearing grease, then install. I have had my pan off three times that way and no leaks between the pan and the block. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Flanagan Posted November 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 17, 2009 Thanks James. That is really good to hear. I would think the stuff I used would have the same effect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Flanagan Posted November 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 17, 2009 And now a different bolt has stripped. The one I replaced worked fine. This one was one that torqued down fine earlier. At this point I'm just going to go with it. It moves when you get about 20 foot pounds on it but what can I do, short of taking everything apart again? This is a good lesson in never using old fasteners. I'd be willing to tack weld the damn thing in place at this point. I've rented a hoist and everything. I hate to return it without having used it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Saraceno Posted November 17, 2009 Report Share Posted November 17, 2009 Odd that you would have two bolts strip out. You probably already know this, but I had it wrong. I thought when you used a torque wrench you would pull until it stopped clicking. That is I would pull VERY slowly until I felt the click, then I would do it again until it would click without moving. After I stripped a couple of bolts I read up on the proper way to use a torque wrench and found out that you pull at a normal pace, let it click once and then you're done. But I may be the only member on this board that didn't know that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Flanagan Posted November 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 17, 2009 So, the bolt tightens just enough to flatten the lock washer underneath it. Would it be all right to tack weld the nut to the bolt? I know it's Mickey Mouse, but I don't want to take this apart again. I have three that are tightened to spec. The third one wouldn't be as tight as the others, but it's tight enough to flatten the washer and if I tacked it in place, it wouldn't be going anywhere. If I ever needed to get it off, I could just grind the weld off because it will be in an accessible spot on the bolt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Young Ed Posted November 17, 2009 Report Share Posted November 17, 2009 Joe if the lock washer is flat I say you are good. I've never torqued these bolts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plymouthy Adams Posted November 17, 2009 Report Share Posted November 17, 2009 I submit that these may well have been over torque in their past life and stretched out..placing along a straight edge may reveal a slight dip in the threaded outer edges...else Joe's torque wrench could be out of tolerance...being these should be grade 8 bolts..it is very starange indeed..am sure Joe is about to peg his fun meter on this section.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Flanagan Posted November 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 17, 2009 So if I go ahead now and have a problem, I have to fix anything that comes up from under the car. If I play it safe, I transfer the engine from the hoist back to the engine stand (second time today), bring the hoist back to the rental place and pay for not having used it, buy another oil pan gasket (my third) because I know I won't get away with reusing this one a second time, pull the pan a third time, install new bolts, reinstall the pan, reinstall the flywheel. I'm so tempted to go on the fly with this and gamble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plymouthy Adams Posted November 17, 2009 Report Share Posted November 17, 2009 I would go out, buy enough grade 8 new hardware for the job..be sure the matching nuts are grade 8 also..check the torque wrench against another one if you can borrow from a friend. Go for a closer class of fit for increased torque capability and ability to withstand stress or even better check with speciality bolt company for rolled thread as found in the aricraft industry. This is just not adding up and it is false economy that you should be having to rent, buy and waste time, prodcuts and rental fees. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Flanagan Posted November 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 17, 2009 Well, the engine is back on the stand and the hoist has been returned. I removed the flywheel again and am back to square one. I was so frustrated I was getting ready to put the engine in like it was. The only thing that kept me from doing it was the lack of an extra set of hands. I'm glad it turned out that way, though. Thanks to all of you who responded with suggestions, etc. What I'm going to do is get all new grade 8 hardware. I don't know if my torque wrench is OK or not. It's not seen much use. I assembled the engine with it and everything seemed to work fine. But there were two incidents that make me wonder. The first was when I was installing the control arm bushings. The manual calls for some ridiculously high amount of torque and I couldn't seem to get there. The bushing was super tight and my wrench never clicked. I just backed it off until it seemed right. The other thing was when I was installing my new leaf springs. This also called for a high amount of torque and I sheared the bolt right off before the wrench ever clicked. But when I was rebuilding the engine, it seemed to work fine. I've also got one of those models that has a scale and a pointer but I don't know how reliable those are. I like Tim's suggestion of comparing my wrench to another to see whether it's out of whack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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