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Crazy paint method


stevenelle

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I just heard 2nd hand about an unorthodox method of painting vehicles. Apparently the procedure was described on another forum for Dodge Sweptside trucks. I have not read the procedure, but it was described as using a specialized paint roller and thinning the paint 50% for multiple light applications. Up to 10 coats with a long dry period between coats resulted in a nice finish and a hard durable finish. Probably not for a perfectionist or a show truck, but maybe good enough for many of us who are trying to save bucks. Have any of you heard of this? If so, what is your opinion? If it is a legitimate paint method, can someone outline the steps or refer to website?

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This method was explored in depth on the p15/24 threads some time last fall, before the new web site was instituted. Rustoleum paint was used, if memory serves. Wet sanding was done between coats, using a sanding block.

Not only is this type of paint job possible, but it was used extensively in the thirties and forties by people who did not have spray facilities, and it can be done with some pretty amazing results. Several paint makers offer an addative for their paint to make it flow out better when applied with a brush - especially for this prupose.

You are right in thinking that it can be a very viable alternative to the $4000 jobs that most body shops want us to have - sort of an in-between alternative that can look pretty good. I am considering this for my current projec, this spring. Ambienbt temperature and the temperature of your truck are pretty critical for good results. JMHO:)

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Guest Nile Limbaugh

When I had my F**d pickup I restored it one fender at a time while driving it to work. Consequently I painted it one fender at a time also, with Rustoleum rattle cans, the end result being that it looked pretty good except for the cab which wouldn't come off without leaving me nothing to drive! Only drawback with that particular paint is, it's enamel and won't wet sand worth a hoot so the finish wasn't that shiny. But it was clean and solid.

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This thread has piqued my interest - again. It's too cold in the shop to work, so I began to read this original Moparts thread. Would you believe there are over THIRTY pages of forum response! That's a lot of reading. These pages spanned several months of time, during which many guys tried the methods outlined and reported their success/failures/problems. If you have interest in this idea, it is an entertaining read.

Basically the idea is to thin the paint with mineral spirits. The original thread used Rustoleum paint, but subsequent input shows that nearly any alkyd enamel paint can be used for this system. This allows for trememendous flow-out or self-leveling, and has a recommended wet sanding every two coats, till the desired gloss is reached. They recommend use of a cheap orbital buffer which pretty much eliminates the possiblilty of burn thru that is inherent on fresh paint with a conventional rotry buffer.

The advantages are really amazing:

No compressor, spray gun, overspray

No respirator or fumes. The paint is odorless.

Work at your own speed. Do one panel at a time, or the whole enchalada.

Any runs, bugs, dirt, mistakes, just sand 'em out next wet sanding.

Total cost for an entire vehicle - less than $50 bukkz!!!

They recommend working up progressively with sand paper to 2000 grit, which I have never heard of or seen, before final buffing. Amjazing gloss is possible. Several guys have done motorcycle tanks that match clear cost for shine.

Disadvantages:

Lots of elbow grease and time

Temperature sensative. They cannot give an exact ratio for thinning recommendations since this varries with temperature and humidity. The basic idea is that by reducing the paint with mineral spirits, drying time is reduced to the point where you can put two coats on each day and sand the next, for a pretty fast build-up. Six or seven coats seems to be enough to give an excellent finish. I'm gonna try it on my B1B this spring. If I have joy, will post pics.:)

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New paint jobs that are Base coat and Clear coat (two stage) are wet sanded with 2000 grit wet/dry sandpaper. Using water to keep the sandpaper a "true" 2000 grit while carrying out the task. This is followed by buffing with multiple grades of rubbing compounds. There are many projects that don't get wet sanded cuz the car/truck isn't for show, but for work. If done right, the project looks great. Single stage carries its own shine, where as base coats don't. They get thier shine from the clear coat. Single stage is a b*tch to polish and work with in my opinion. So having said that, I can't see the Huge advantage of the foam brush technique. And it would have to be a huge advantage. That "4000.00" dollar paint job everyone keeps talking about includes removal of parts, taping, sanding,body work, bondo, and rust repair in some cases. Does that bag of foam brushes and can of Rustoleum do that as well????? I read the oringinal thread, and the guy seems pretty honest. But the I think a lot of the people replying are forgetting how much prep goes into any auto project. Or maybe they just don't know. I don't plan on brushing a paint job anytime soon, but I'll keep an open mind when one you guys tell me how awesome yours turned out.:)

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I am going to try this paint method out on a golf cart that my dad is fixing up. If it works well there I will move on to doing my truck. I realize how much prep work goes into a vehicle. I just like the fact that I can say I did it myself. I am going to try and take pictures through my journey so I will try to keep everyone posted on my accomplishments and failures. LOL

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I have read the first post by the 69 charger guy and he speaks bout how prep is important as is trial and error.. Its an interesting alternative for a driver. Paint is expensive. its not hard to spend $1000 on primer and paint plus the cost of the other materials. But there is no substitute for time. lots of time, hard work.. it has to be done to get good results from anything.

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I've been reading about painting the car with a roller, etc. too. Guess you can do it with either regular automotive paint or the XO Rust paint. And it looks good either way.

That said, how many use to watch the Tim Allen show on TV, Tool Time? I remember one episode he had a well know custom car builder as a guest on the show. To demonstrate his method of painting a car without spraying they had a 30's something fender and was painting it. All that guy did was use a rag to apply the paint. Just like you would staining wood. He wiped the paint on, then came back and wet sanded after so many coats. Forgot all the little details though and how many coats of paint he applied. However, that fender looked like glass when he was done with it. Anyone remember that episode and how the guy did it? The guy preferred painting that way because it actually looked better than a spray job.

Here is a Studebaker painted with XO Rust paint. It was sprayed on though. I will also add the guy who did it is a retired body man. Said his total cost for the paint job was under $50.

xopaintedstude.jpg

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That "4000.00" dollar paint job everyone keeps talking about includes removal of parts, taping, sanding,body work, bondo, and rust repair in some cases.

I am not sure where you can get that kind of Full Service Paint Job for $4000 but let us know, and I am sure a lot of Truck and Car Guy's will be lined up outside the gate Monday Morning. That kind of Prep Labor alone could be over 4 Grand, before you buy the first ounce of paint. The last Full Service, Body Shop paint job I had done was over 12 years ago and was on a 1957 1/2 ton pickup. It was around $6500 and I thought I got a pretty fair deal. I think alot of guy's on this form are looking to have a nice looking driver. And are willing to put in the Time and Labor on this kind of Paint Project. It will be fun to watch this topic as the weather warms up to see home many take it on. Dutch

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Hey Dutch. Yes, it can be done for 4000.00.

Check my web site for some pictures of a 70 charger I was working the same time I was doing my 72 Racecar. In the pages of "the construction of the 72 charger" you'll see the 70 R/t beside the 72. If you want to hagle the price, that's fine, I was quoting the generic price I was reading. I believe my questions are still valid. The 70 is a customer's car not mine. Charged him under 4000.00, still, that wasn't my point. In all, the original post ask for my opinion. I think I did that, gave my opinion. So, I'll say it again, I'll keep an open mind and look forward to one(all) of you guys pulling it off. :)

www.68mopar.com

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I am still wondering what to do about paint on my Chrysler.

I would like to have it done by a pro, but I'm afraid I just don't have that kind of cash to spend on the car just for paint. (don't even get me going about upholstery :( )

But, I do have spare time. With this method, I can do the paint panel by panel when I have the time and use the money saved for upholstery which I know NOTHING about and can't do any of myself.

Admittedly this IS a second choice, but that happens alot in life I guess.

I suppose there is the option of leaving the original "patina" in place and calling it done.

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Dodger, No offence intended and Not trying to stir up a ruckus. I have just not found any good body shops that will take on that kind of project for that kind of dough. Anybody out there that can chime in on what a good paint job set them back? I'm talkin where you take them the truck and they do all the work. And I'm not talkin show quality. Just a good overall job where some rust repair and body prep/filler was done. Having a resource for comparison on this stuff is invaluable. As well as everyone's opinion. Thanks Dutch

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My coupe which needs 3 small rusty spots fixed and then some dings worked out was quoted 6K at the local maaco. The other shop said they'd start on it for 8K and go (up) from there if they found more under the surface.

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That said' date=' how many use to watch the Tim Allen show on TV, Tool Time? I remember one episode he had a well know custom car builder as a guest on the show. To demonstrate his method of painting a car without spraying they had a 30's something fender and was painting it. All that guy did was use a rag to apply the paint. Just like you would staining wood. He wiped the paint on, then came back and wet sanded after so many coats. Forgot all the little details though and how many coats of paint he applied. However, that fender looked like glass when he was done with it. Anyone remember that episode and how the guy did it? The guy preferred painting that way because it actually looked better than a spray job.

[/quote']

I remember the episode, in fact, I think the paint was wet and Tim leaned his arm on it. "Hand rubbed" is the term they used.

Rolling and tipping is regularly done with boats. A good book to read on the subject is by Don Casey called "Sailboat Refinishing". It goes over in detail how to thin the paint correctly by testing it out on a piece of glass and lots of other good info. I saw several of Don Casey's books in my local Barnes and Noble so you can scan through it with a cup of coffee next time you're in there.

http://www.amazon.com/Sailboat-Refinishing-Don-Casey/dp/0070132259

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Here a picture of the old 42 befor I resprayed the car with sanding primer.Pluggingalong2.jpg

I did all the body work and the prep work befor I took it to Maco and there it cost around 550 for the entire paint job. When I do take it to a car show alot of people are surprised at how nice the paint job is and when I say Maco did it they are really surprissed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! No need in spending thousand for a fancy paint job as I still get lots of awards.

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I remember the episode, in fact, I think the paint was wet and Tim leaned his arm on it. "Hand rubbed" is the term they used.

Rolling and tipping is regularly done with boats. A good book to read on the subject is by Don Casey called "Sailboat Refinishing". It goes over in detail how to thin the paint correctly by testing it out on a piece of glass and lots of other good info. I saw several of Don Casey's books in my local Barnes and Noble so you can scan through it with a cup of coffee next time you're in there.

http://www.amazon.com/Sailboat-Refinishing-Don-Casey/dp/0070132259

Brad,

Finally someone else who saw that episode!! I brought up this subject some time ago on the old forum. No one came forward then and said they had seen the show. You are right. As with all things done on the show, Tim of course messed up the job by touching the wet paint. I wish someone could remember the painters name though. Maybe he has a book out too. I'll check out Barnes & Noble as you suggested next time in there.

FOR VINTRADER,

My son had his 80 Firebird painted a few years ago at a regular body shop. The actual cost of the paint job alone was about $3500 to $3800 using urethane paints and base coat. As mentioned, that was just for painting. They also did a few minor repairs and prepped it prior to painting. Total body shop cost for everything together was about $5,000. However, prior to taking it in my ex son in law (a body man too) had done a lot of work on the body. In fact when my son took the car in for the paint job it was completely stripped except for the dash and the drivers seat. So, if you count all the body work done, it would have come to over $10,000 for the job. So, I'll have to agree with you. If you do the job right by stripping and repairing everything prior to a paint job, there is no way you can do it for $4,000 at a body shop.

Now, what is doing the job right? That's all up to the individual concerned. Myself I can't see spending even the $4,000 for a paint job. I'm going for a $300 to $400 job from Maaco when I get what body work done that I want to do. To me, that's what is right for my driver.

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Dodger, No offence intended and Not trying to stir up a ruckus. I have just not found any good body shops that will take on that kind of project for that kind of dough. Anybody out there that can chime in on what a good paint job set them back? I'm talkin where you take them the truck and they do all the work. And I'm not talkin show quality. Just a good overall job where some rust repair and body prep/filler was done. Having a resource for comparison on this stuff is invaluable. As well as everyone's opinion. Thanks Dutch

Not a problem Dutch.....I think what I'm reading is that we all want a good looking car AND be able to put gas into too. Down at the race track some guys say that their race car number should read 401k.

which reminds me of what a friend of mine said at a car show. Some guy walks up and starts telling him what's wrong with my friend's car. You know, giving his 10 cents when 2 cents would have been fine. My buddy says, "dude...I don't care, it's not for sale". I don't ever want to be that guy. If you love your ride and what you've done with it, cool.... I won't judge.:cool:

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Guest Dave Claussen

Now I'm not trying to sell anyone on this idea as everyone has their own comfort zone as to what they want in a paint job in regards to cost and final appearance. My plan is to do as much of the body work that I can myself. I got lucky on the general condition of the body of my '52 with almost no rust through and very few dents and so forth. Then I'm going to use the paint from Auto-Air that is water based. Now I know what you're all thinking about water based paint and in the past it was not durable and tended to flake off etc. But it's come a long way and this new stuff has been getting some very good reviews. You can shoot it with an HVLP gun and without all the need for respiratory protection (a good dust mask is claimed to be sufficient) and you don't need a full body suit like you would with the other types of automotive paints. You use it right from the one gallon jug it comes in without thinning (supposedly).You can coat it with clear coat and get a very good looking paint job without spending thousands on acrylics or laquers. I know a lot of the cost of a complete pro paint job is in the prep work and that's why I'm going to do as much of that a I can myself. Classic Truck Magazine did an article on the whole process from the base coat to color coat and then the clear coat and the end result was awesome! They made it sound like the average guy could do it fairly easily. I figure I haven't got a whole lot to lose and if it turns out OK then it will be one more thing I have learned how to do for any future projects. And I might save a little cash that could be spent on my interior or something else.

I'd be interested to know if anyone else has tried this type of paint and what measure of success they had.

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I decided to do my own painting when I restored a 31 Ford Model A coupe. I bought a Ditzler or PPG book on painting a model a and it sounded easy enough. I did all of the prep work and kept the chemistry of all of my materials consistant with the book. All the way from metal prep, primer, sealer and then the laquer finish coats and finally the final clear coat. The thing about laquer was that it went on thin and then wet sanded. If you made runs, you sanded em out. After about 11 or 15 coats of paint, a guy gets pretty good at applying.

One of the tips was to wet the floor and walls before painting to eliminate dust. I used the same paint and techniques when I restored a 70 Dodge Challanger Convertable.

Dennis

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Some info on the car

"Well after some positive response at Solvang and various other places I thought I'd reveal my paintjob facts.

After reading an email on the Roadster list I investigated the Mopar BBoard where they have been discussing a $50 paintjob.

http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=2331682&an=0&page=0#2331682

After a test on an old trunk lid, I decided that it was probably better than Scheib was gonna do and alot cheaper.

I painted it with Rustoleum (color Almond Gloss happens to be pretty close to stock Datsun yellow) and a foam roller and lots of wetsanding and polishing. My prep work leaves alot to be desired, but my conclusion is that if you take your time and follow the steps you can get a very quality paint job for very little cost. I probably spent about $80 on paint, sandpaper, thinner, rollers, etc..Does it shine?? Yes.

Heck, it looks WAYYY better than the flat black rattle can job I had before. Don't get me wrong, this is by no means a show quality paint job. You've heard of a "10 from 10", well this is like an "9 from 20." If you are restoring a car for the long haul have someone else do it. But if your car is a driver that you want to make look a little nicer this could be the paint for you.

Good Luck,

Ron "

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Here is a picture of my first coat on the golf cart. I have since put on 5 more coats but forgot to take pictures. I am up to 1000 grit sandpaper. So far everything looks good. The first couple of coats had alot of orange peel but after wet sanding they have faded away. This job takes alot of time but if you are not pressed for time this would be a great way to paint.

post-129-13585345115469_thumb.jpg

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