Transmission SLUGGISH Shifting

[wayfarerstranger]

ON my 49 Plymouth standard 3 speed started to notice a sluggish shifting problem it has fluid in it but it acts kinda like a automatic with low fluid level ,,i have to go real slowly thru the gears mainly in second if i give it to much gas it acts like it doesn`t want to go any where , i have to just go easy on it till i get where i can get into 3rd and if i get into 3rd to soon same thing give it the gas and it just hesitates , never noticed it being like this before i could go to 10 15 mph then go up into 2nd then get to 25 30 go to 3 rd other times i would shift to 2nd pretty quick then in 3rd , there are also times if i`m on a slight incline at a stop light it hardly wants to go on take off once i get into 3rd and get going it seems fine ,,,, can anyone shed some light on this ... CHANCE

[greg g]

sounds like a slipping clutch to me. If you are in 3rd on a slight hill and floor it what happens??

[Jim Yergin]

Is it possible that your clutch is slipping a little? I don't know if it can slip on initial engagement but then grip tightly once you get moving.

How many miles on the clutch? How is your pedal adjustment? Just throwing out an idea.

Jim Yergin

[woodie49]

Sure sounds like your clutch is slipping. Start out in second and see what happens. I assume it should be noticably worse. Once you get up to speed on a level surface, it requires less energy to keep you car moving than is required to get it started from zero, so there is less required of your clutch. My experience is that a slipping clutch gives of a pretty unigue burning smell as well. Do you notice that as you are starting out or when you park the car?

[1947PLEVY]

Chance:

It does sound like the clutch is slipping.. When are you going to change it? Need help??

God Bless US All...John

[wayfarerstranger]

i kinda thought that might be it but i don`t smell anything & it has probably 10,000 miles on it and some times i do start out in 2nd but it actually isn`t worst if anythingit`s better ? i guess i better pick up a clutch i`ll just add that to the list of a 1000 things i need to do ... thanx

[greg g]

If its only got 10K on it I would do an adjustment before a change out. Should be a lot more than 10k in a fricton disc. shorten the rod to the throw out fork by about 1/8" and see it it make any difference. If the bearing is riding on the forks, it may be keeping the pressure plate from clamping all the way.

[woodie49]

Did you replace the pressure plate when you did the clutch? 10K miles is way too short for a new clutch and pressure plate, especially with our relatively low-power engines.

Have you had any bad oil leaks or something that would affect the surface of the clutch plate? I am with Greg G, try adjusting it first. Also, make sure there isn't something that is hanging up your linkage and keeping your fork from returning completely when you let the clutch out.

[wayfarerstranger]

i do have an oil leak somewhere around the transmission can`t really pin point it , i also thought the same thing some oil has got onto the clutch causing it to slip just need to find the source of the leak

[wayfarerstranger]

adjusted the clutch forked helped a tiny bit clutch must be going if i take it easy on the gas it does ok but at any point while i`m driving if i punch the gas it just doesn`t go anywhere,,

[Lou Earle]

check the fluid in the fluid drive- mine was very sluggish drained it then added hydraulic tractor fluid and all was fine- slow process but worth it

[greg g]

I don;t think fluid drive is involved its a Plymouth correct?? you probably need the gasket that goes between the transmission and the bellhousing. If its not there some of the gear lube will seep out. Does the car use or leak oil, like at the rear main seal??? That will put oil into the bellhousing and onto the clutch parts, and flywheel.

That sid this condition usually leads to clutch juddering when you try to engage it.

If a bit of adjustment helped, try a bit more.

[wayfarerstranger]

i think i do need a new gasket between the trans & bell housing & also rear main seal , is the rear main seal hard to change with the engine in the car ? this all sucks as this was a rebuilt engine with all new clutch parts when it went in the car ..

[Jim Yergin]

Question, if oil has gotten on the clutch disc, can the disc be cleaned and reused or does it have to be replaced like you do with contaminated brake shoes?

Jim Yergin

[Lou Earle]

My mistake- looked at name and erroneously concluded fluid dr.

Here is my test for standard

Find level or slightly inclined straight road get car up to about 25-30. then in third mash accelerator to floor. If engine speeds up with no increase or engine revs do not match speed= clutch is slipping- for some reason.

First adjust clutch some-see manual but disregard the 1 inch play bit.

just loosen her up some until slipping stops then fine tune it.

Now if oil is problem with the clutch- remove clutch clean with gas or lacquer thinner. Then dry with blowtorch!! I do this often on bad brake shoes and it works just fine.Usually there has not been en oughth penetration into the clutch or brake to cause a problem.

However what I read -again- seems likely that the adjustment is out.

Lou

[Lou Earle]

re read the statement for the third time!! Slow learner!!

Does the engine speed pu in thrid gear with car not running faster- is engine outrunning car? If so slipping clutch.

But you said sluggish- so this is a wild shot-if you are sure it is fuel check your points!!! Sure sounds like bad or old points to me - Starts fien but misses or sluggish on accleration. Check the easiest first

Lou

[wayfarerstranger]

i thought it was a slipping clutch all along but always like to explore all angles ,,,the adjustment rod going to the fork is as far clock wise as it will go didn`t do much good i can`t see how loosing it would help ? anyway sluggish may have been the wrong word to use . from past experience & everything that i have read on the net and heard from on here it sounds like a slipping clutch like u said if you are going 30 mph or so press down on the gas the engine rev`s up but the car ain`t speeding up . if ya just press on the gas lightly is moves along , but on the inclines it doesn`t pull to good and getting worst . i also started the car pulled up the E brake put it in 3rd let off of the clutch and it would die ,, but when i did this and pressed the gas pedal it would stay running as long as it was getting gas . ... i pulled the bottom cover off and there is a slight leak at the rear seal but it doesn`t seem to be getting on the fly wheel and clutch parts , fly wheel pressure plate all seem to be dry there is leaking from the transmission though & there is some oil on the throw out bearing shaft can`t tell if the oil got onto the front of the bearing or not .. it`s a little hard to tell for sure what the clutch looks like without removing it but does seem to be worn down . i guess ya just have to pull it out & look at it ...

Edited July 31, 2009 by wayfarerstranger

[greg g]

If turning the adjustment clockwise lengthens the rod from the pedal linkage to the throw out fork, then you have made the problem worse. This lengthining will cause the throw out to put costant pressure on the pressure plate forks. That pressure will cause the plate to not fully clamp the clutch disc against the fly wheel. Same as driving it with your foot on the clutch pedal all the time. I believe I said to adjust it to shorten the rod, this will relieve pressure from the throw out allowing it to fully release the throw out bearing from the fingers on the clutch disc.

As the friction material looses thickness from wear, the throw out needs to move furtheer to the rear to allow the fingers to release the pressure plate the extra distance to compensate for the wear.

The other problem could be that through the slippage you have glazed the friction material making it less effective. If thisis the case, you might be able to remove the friction disc and roughen it up with some sand paper. But if you're going that far you might as well relace it or have it refaced. with nematerial. Unless the rivets are beginning to show, you should have adequate material to effect a reasonable fix through proper adjustment.

[wayfarerstranger]

i`ll give it a try ,,,and let you know if it is as far forward as it will go how much should i loosen it ?? thanx

[greg g]

There should be some space ( maybe .010 to .015in) between the face of the throw out bearing and the fingers of the pressure plate whent the clutch is fully released. Have you got your pedal so there some free play at the top??? It should move 1/2 to 1 inch or so before you start to activate the throwout fork. If your pedal is to tight you may not be able to get a good adjustment with the other rod. You must have some free play at the top of your clutch pedal movement. That you accomplish with the turnbuckle near the overcenter spring.

[wayfarerstranger]

seems that the first time i adjusted it it helped a little the second time i turn the rod the wrong way and made it worst " moonshine & adjusting rods don`t mix " as they say 3rd time is the charm , i tightened it as far as it would go & then backed off till i saw the bearing pop back , drove it & it seems to be working fine or at least a lot better, got a little power again ,,, , did the E brake test again & indicates clutch is ok ,,, although the several times i drove it unadjusted i think i probably caused some unneeded wear to the clutch should have learned by now not to put off repairs or not own 10 cars so i don`t have so much crap to deal with " NOT " so maybe before the winter gets here i might put a new one in .. next week i`ll replace that transmission gasket ! again thanx for responding long enough for me to sobber up now where did i put that bottle of MOON SHINE ?