Niel Hoback Posted June 9, 2009 Report Posted June 9, 2009 Those mounts are most definitely home-made. Dang clever, too. Quote
Young Ed Posted June 9, 2009 Report Posted June 9, 2009 They don't look homemade to me. Rebecca you need to find someone else with a 36 to compare to. Quote
n1gzd_plymouth Posted June 9, 2009 Author Report Posted June 9, 2009 Here is one more picture showing my engine mounts that I am trying to identify (is this stock for any mopar flathead powered car or truck, or is this fabricated). Is it ok? The engine shakes from side to side a bit but perhaps this is ok for so called "floating power". So in addition to engine mounts I am still reviewing my rear hub situation. I think that I understand the problem. Unfortunately I did not take a picture of my hubs when the wheels and drums were off but you can see in these pictures of my left and rear wheels that the rivets are ground flat and on the left side the one that is a pin is also ground off. On the right side the pin is knocked out but there is a hole so I can see how much if at all the drum has shifted. I am assuming that if I remove my cotter pin, castle nut and washer then I will see the axle shaft key. Is that correct? I could pull off the hub (drum already removed) by just using the hub puller (the normal technique). If I did this I would see a a hub that looks like a flange with a tapered center and a keyway showing. This key is the only thing that keeps the hub from spinning when the shaft is torqued. Regarding the pin that is in place of one of the rivets. It appears that this pin is hammered in from the outside of the drum. Could I just get one of these pins and hammer it in as a way to help keep the drum from turning and to make it easier to line up? Would it be possible to remove these hubs and bring it and new drums to a machine shop and have them knock out the old rivets and re-rivet a new drum onto it (including the missing pin)? Are these drums available new? Is it likely that my brakes pulsating a little at slow speeds is caused by a misalignment of the drums or will the wheel bolts keep it in position. I think that I will try adjusting the brakes one more time in case this is actually the main problem. It seems that the best solution would be to find a new set of very nice hub/drums and swap them (and perhaps try and rebuild the old ones and keep as a spare). It appears that greasing the rear wheel bearings is easy in this type of design if you don't have trouble pulling the hub. (that is the hardest part). How about re-installing it. If it was hard to pull off, is it hard to press back on? I am assuming that it goes right on but then you have to tap in the key. Is that correct? Just place it on the shaft, seat it where it goes and tap the key in and then tighten up the castle nut (by tightening it most of the way and then backing it off until the cotter pin lines up and you are done). Is this correct? Thanks so much, Rebecca Quote
n1gzd_plymouth Posted June 9, 2009 Author Report Posted June 9, 2009 They don't look homemade to me. Rebecca you need to find someone else with a 36 to compare to. Last weekend I had a chance to see 2 other 36 plymouths (one of them was completely original barn fresh - quite amazing). Unfortunately he left before I could see all of his car. Regarding 36. According to all of the parts sources that I have checked, 35 and later have the same engine mounts. (not like mine). However, I have not checked what was on the donor dodge truck (where the engine came from). My mounts look worn but I think that they are not in danger of braking. It would be possible to do a custom rebuild job if this is not a part that can be found. (probably I can't find these). How much should my engine shake at low rpm? Perhaps I need to make a video to show what I observe. Also, I feel a lot of vibration in the gear shift knob (not shaking, just vibration). Would you expect this? My larger concern is knocking noises (I assume that squeaky springs is nothing to worry about). My tie rod end can wiggle up and down (spring is not very strong) but the wheel does not wiggle much (extra play is mostly up and down) and this does cause a noise (one source of annoying noises). Some of my mechanical linkages seem to be missing a lot of bushings (especially for e-brake). I should be able to invent what is missing. Exhaust pipe hits in numerous places. I will replace the entire thing. I am not sure how it is supposed to be routed. I might just get a stock 36 exhaust and hope that it fits. I saw a 37 that had the pipe routed under the cross member (mine goes through it). I am also putting in tube shocks in rear. I have already removed the knee-action shocks. I have some shocks for a 37 plymouth that I am going to use. I will change the bracket at for the spring u bolts to one that has an ear to mount the lower end of the shock and I will use one of the already existing holes in the frame above for the other mount point. I have not decided if it should go in front of or behind the axle (I have seen cars with it both ways). I will start a new thread when I have pictures of this. Rebecca Quote
old woolie Posted June 9, 2009 Report Posted June 9, 2009 Gonna start a drum rivit argument now. The key locks indexes and being tapered locks the hub to the axle. The drum is rivited to the hub. (theory, this is redundant) It also causes most of the problems when servicing the rear brakes. as the drum and therefore the hub need to be removed to access the brakes. Hypothesis, one could grind the rivets off and remove the drum from the hub, without the agony of using the puller and its associated mental and physical torment. while the drum is off, the remaining rivet parts could be driven out from the hub so they do not inadvertantly loosen and dilodge themselves at an inoportune time. The drum would the be slipped on after brake service and centered and retained by the wheel and lugs just like on a modern car. Then the only time you would need to mess with the axle nut and hub puller is when you needed to service the axle or its seals. As noted Rebeccas post, those with plymouths would probably need to fashion a guid bolt or to to allow the fitment of the wheel in a centered manner, shugging up three bolts, then removing the guide bolts inserting the two other bolts and then tightening in the normal star pattern to keep the wheel drum assembly. No argument here. Did this many years ago to a 62 Dart and have done it to my 51 Regent with absolutly no problems. Quote
n1gzd_plymouth Posted June 11, 2009 Author Report Posted June 11, 2009 Even thought I have seen lots of popular old mopar mounts listed that look completely different, I have now found several pictures of NOS 1936 plymouth mounts that look like mine. I thought it looked too good to be home made. Thanks for helping. Rebecca Quote
desoto1939 Posted June 11, 2009 Report Posted June 11, 2009 Rebecca: I looked in a parts book and 37-52 mopar cars all used the same front motor mount part # 1115744. I do not have the part number for the 36 plymouth. You ar state that the engine vibrates while at idle. Withthe floating engine mounts the engine should be smooth running so that you can set a glass of water on the head while running and the glass should not fall off the head. The vibration dampener might be going bad and this also helps with the smoothness of the engine while running. The mounting pin on each drum was used on the mopars that use the bolt system to hold the rim on the drum. Most of the plymouths and Dodges used regular wheel studs like we now have on our modern cars. Chrylsers and Desotos used the bolt system I do know that on my 39 Desoto on all four wheels use right hand threaded bolts. Later on in the later 40s 46-48 they started to use right and Left thread bolts So if some one replaced the rear from a later 40's mopar car you can then have the right/left bolts. I would suggest that you get a good parts book for the 36 plymouth so you can start with part numbers that are specific to your car and then the rest of the guys can help to determine which parts from the other years might fit your car. Rich Hartung desoto1939@aol.com Quote
Jim Yergin Posted June 11, 2009 Report Posted June 11, 2009 Rebecca:I looked in a parts book and 37-52 mopar cars all used the same front motor mount part # 1115744. I do not have the part number for the 36 plymouth. You ar state that the engine vibrates while at idle. Withthe floating engine mounts the engine should be smooth running so that you can set a glass of water on the head while running and the glass should not fall off the head. The vibration dampener might be going bad and this also helps with the smoothness of the engine while running. The mounting pin on each drum was used on the mopars that use the bolt system to hold the rim on the drum. Most of the plymouths and Dodges used regular wheel studs like we now have on our modern cars. Chrylsers and Desotos used the bolt system I do know that on my 39 Desoto on all four wheels use right hand threaded bolts. Later on in the later 40s 46-48 they started to use right and Left thread bolts So if some one replaced the rear from a later 40's mopar car you can then have the right/left bolts. I would suggest that you get a good parts book for the 36 plymouth so you can start with part numbers that are specific to your car and then the rest of the guys can help to determine which parts from the other years might fit your car. Rich Hartung desoto1939@aol.com Rich, My '41 Plymouth uses wheel bolts not studs and the bolts are L/H and R/H depending on the side. Jim Yergin Quote
Young Ed Posted June 11, 2009 Report Posted June 11, 2009 So does my 48 and 51. Even my 46 1/2 ton truck uses bolts. Quote
desoto1939 Posted June 11, 2009 Report Posted June 11, 2009 Ply, Desoto, Chrysler 1937 -1939 USes bolts on all wheels and only uses right had threads. Right # 393984 From 1940-52 they use bolt but use right and Left handed threads. 393984 - R 856981 left for bolts Dodge 37-52 uses the nuts on the wheels. This information is coming from a Mopar parts manual and also off the parts manual that Mitchells uses nuts Right 1139316 left 1139317 so you can see there was a mix in the use of the stud and the bolt system and the change for the bolt system takes place around 1940. Hope this clears the air on the bolt and nuts and the use of right and left threads. When in doubt I can provide a great deal of info for our cars Do not be afraid to ask and verify. rich Desoto1939@aol.com Quote
n1gzd_plymouth Posted June 11, 2009 Author Report Posted June 11, 2009 The reason why I have left hand bolts on the left rear must be because I have a 41 rear end and the person who installed it must have used the drum/hub assemblys from that as well. This would explain why I have left ones on the left rear but not the left front. I could fix this but it is probably not worth the effort for now (but at least I understand why it is happening). thanks for the info about the glass of water. I have something to work towards. Rebecca Quote
n1gzd_plymouth Posted June 11, 2009 Author Report Posted June 11, 2009 The reason why I have left hand bolts on the left rear must be because I have a 41 rear end and the person who installed it must have used the drum/hub assemblys from that as well. This would explain why I have left ones on the left rear but not the left front. I could fix this but it is probably not worth the effort for now (but at least I understand why it is happening). thanks for the info about the glass of water. I have something to work towards. Rebecca Quote
greg g Posted June 11, 2009 Report Posted June 11, 2009 Just mark them with a yellow paint stick as a reminder when service is necessary. Quote
40phil41 Posted June 11, 2009 Report Posted June 11, 2009 Ply, Desoto, Chrysler 1937 -1939 USes bolts on all wheels and only uses right had threads. Right # 393984From 1940-52 they use bolt but use right and Left handed threads. 393984 - R 856981 left for bolts Dodge 37-52 uses the nuts on the wheels. This information is coming from a Mopar parts manual and also off the parts manual that Mitchells uses nuts Right 1139316 left 1139317 so you can see there was a mix in the use of the stud and the bolt system and the change for the bolt system takes place around 1940. Hope this clears the air on the bolt and nuts and the use of right and left threads. When in doubt I can provide a great deal of info for our cars Do not be afraid to ask and verify. rich Desoto1939@aol.com FWIW, both my 1940 Dodge and my 1941 Dodge use bolts. Left hand thread on the left hand side (driver's side) and right hand thread on the right hand side (pass. side). Phil Quote
n1gzd_plymouth Posted June 11, 2009 Author Report Posted June 11, 2009 Just mark them with a yellow paint stick as a reminder when service is necessary. Well they do have a big "L" on the bolts. Rebecca Quote
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