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RonJ

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  • Gender
    Male
  • Location
    Thunder Bay, Ontario, Canada
  • My Project Cars
    1947 Dodge Special Deluxe
    1961 MGA
    1974 Chev Corvette (Sold)
    1985 Olds Toronado (Sold)

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  • Biography
    Retired
  • Occupation
    Instrumentation Technician

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  • Location
    Thunder Bay, Ontario, Canada
  • Interests
    Old cars, scrap metal yard art, gardening

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  1. Just a final note. I made this modification for personal use only and have provided the information for general interest. I’m not endorsing, encouraging, or recommending this modification. Do what you wish with this information at your own risk. Feel free to ask questions.
  2. Due to file size the photo showing the modification was omitted. Here it is.
  3. My United Pacific 5007 turn signal switch arrived. It was chosen because it is of metal construction and the product photos showed it had screws for assembly for a possible modification to separate the Hazard and the Signal circuits. Other switches that looked like this but were knockoffs since they were plastic did not show screws. As promised here is the simple modification. The Speedway 22 circuit harness has two flasher relays one for the Signal lites and one for Hazard lights with each having its own wire to go to a signal switch. The UP5007 only has one feed wire from the Signal flasher to control both the Hazards and Signals. see photos. The Hazard function in the UP5007 is on its own little contact card which slides over the back of contact card for the Signal function. The pencil shows the source for the power for the Hazard lites. It slides on the contact pad with the black wire on it which is fed from the “L” contact on the Signal flasher which is energized only when the ignition key is in the “ON” position. Luckily the modification is quite simple. Flatten that contact the pencil shows and drill a small hole 3/32” for a new wire to pass through to be soldered. You can skip the drilling and just solder the wire on that pad but good practice is to have a good mechanical connection before soldering. Solder the new wire to this this location. This wire will be fed from the “L” connection on the Hazard relay which is always energized. The clearance is adequate that this joint won’t touch the pad the black wire is on but both can be covered with insulating tape for additional insulation. A photo shows the pad covered. Now when the Hazard switch is pulled it applies the voltage from the new wire to the 4 contact pads to feed the lites on each corner of the car. When feeding the new wire through the sleeve containing the other wires leave a 3/4” loop right by the entrance to the switch to allow for the in/out movement of the Hazard switch Reassemble and test. Everything should work as originally designed. I am now using this UP5007 instead of the Flash All 999 in my first test.
  4. Thanks. The search begins if only because a matched pair will look better.
  5. My 47 Special Deluxe has two horn trumpets in front of the radiator with the HRL 4101 relay mounted in between them. I understand the longer one on the left is for a low bass tone and the other shorter one on the right is for the treble tone. Recognizing that there may be other physical differences for the tones, note in the photo the covers are different. It is odd that the one horn has a screw termination on the side and the other has the wire go through to the inside. Is this the way they came from the factory or was one horn changed at some point in the last 75 years?
  6. Thanks for the YouTube link. It is very informative. I found circuit diagrams utilizing two relays and a single flasher online as well. The signal switches, either four wire or seven, performs the function of the two relays in the video. I am trying to use what’s already configured in the harness with separate flasher relays, one (Hazard) that is always hot, meaning will work no matter the key position and one (Signal) that is switched on by the key.
  7. Here’s the applicable sections from the regulations. Note it also says the turn signal switch must be self canceling but I may be able to have that not apply since the units aren’t available with that feature. I know this opens the whole controversy of what is required for vintage vehicles. My intent is simply to make my 47 as safe as possible. The second column is the Fail conditions.
  8. Here’s the diagram showing the diodes and Speedway wiring.
  9. For sure, back in history a single flasher was the only one in the circuit and it did both jobs, turn signal and hazard. In my collection of “stuff” I have a Do-Ray Flash-All 999 turn signal switch designed for older vehicles. It a 4 wire unit with indicator as well as Hazard function. Move the lever up or down for Signals and pull it out for the Hazards. It works very well considering the Patent is 1964. The Red wire is from a two prong flasher (Purple in the harness), Green goes to right signals, Yellow to left signals, Black to the indicator in the switch. This unit was originally designed for a three prong flasher that had the P terminal for the indicator light, but the Speedway harness is designed for a two prong flasher so I added a couple diodes - see diagram and the indicator works well. The case is ground. As above I could just not have Hazard lights but this particular switch has the function so I’d like to use it. I could also live with wiring it to the switched by ignition flasher relay (Purple in the harness) or the always hot Hazard relay (brown in the harness). The relays themselves are identical and I have tested it both ways and it works well. I could live with it either way but it would be much better for safety having it work as in my first post. I looked at the internal connections of the Flash-All to determine if adding a wire to the circuit for the hazards is possible but it is all riveted and I would prefer not to disturb it since it serves the purpose for safety certification. I have considered ordering one of the 7 wire units on the market that have the Hazard and Signal function as well as the indicator but I thought I would ask my initial question if a unit was already available for separating them or if someone has modified one. Without having a 7 wire unit in hand to see the internals I’m wondering if it could be modified by adding a wire to use the feed from the hazard relay for that function and leave the design feed for the flasher function. For those that are wondering why am Ingoing through all this effort I’ll post the applicable sections of the standards.
  10. I thought I would close this topic out since I purchased a wiring harness kit that came with a light switch that solved the problem of daytime running lights and hi/lo beam operation. The light switch in the car was worn. This wiring harness prompted another question concerning the Hazard and Signal flashers that I started as a new topic.
  11. Having studied the various offerings and subsequently purchasing a 22 Circuit Speedway aftermarket wiring harness (91064022) a question came up that someone may have solved. It seems all aftermarket harnesses have a separate relay (flasher) for the Hazard lights and for the Signal lites. For safety reasons the Hazard lites are on their own circuit fuse and relay which is powered constant hot. The position of the key is not a factor. The signal lite relay is powered from a switched line that is hot when the key is in the ON position. The harness I purchased was a customer return, new and unopened, sold at a discount that came with a plug for GM steering columns. Others come for Ford or Universal. That is of no concern because the plug be can be removed or in the case of the Universal it can be wired any way you choose. Unless I’ve missed something it seems that the aftermarket harnesses are designed for turn signal and hazard switches that are set up for the separate relay system including the separate hazard switch as found in modern vehicles. However all the aftermarket turn signal switches (7 wire) do not have provision to utilize the Hazard flasher separately from the Signal flasher. It seems it’s the installers choice as to which feed to the unit is used either the switched or the unswitched, but it is either one or the other. The question is: Is there an aftermarket turn signal switch that is made to utilize the Signal Flasher when signalling but uses the Hazard flasher when used in an emergency, or is there another solution?
  12. Thanks for the tip. That will work. Once again I have broken the rule of keeping it simple by going down the high tech road.
  13. Thanks for the feedback. It is all valuable. I am considering the wire harness kit from Painless or Speedway or other vendors. This should resolve the concerns of the condition of existing wiring and ampacity. The vehicle is already converted to 12 V Neg GND. I have the 4 wire column mount for separate signal lights and hazard flasher. I am in favour of LED because of the brightness. I like the idea of bumper mount but I am still looking for a useable rear bumper. The rear window mount idea is worth a look for sure for the reason mentioned. Sniper, thanks for the link to proper harness tape. I’m trying to emulate what a modern vehicle has for the reasons mentioned. I’d like to put the odds in my favour considering inattentive drivers, cell phones, not looking for multifunction lights etc. My experience in my other old vehicle (MGA) has been that people are more tuned into looking at the vehicle itself than what it is doing - like stopping or turning. The front will use the existing park light fixtures - since they are separate - as the signal lights. I am considering replacing the incandescent headlights with something brighter but also has either a halo (Angel eye) or what I’m learning is a “city light” bulb built in, to satisfy the requirement for daytime running lights. I have been unable to find a aftermarket module that dims the low beam for that purpose like some modern vehicles do. In modern cars this is usually part of of one of the many computers.
  14. It is a requirement to have turn signal lights as well as brake lights on both sides, in my province and for safety sake they are a good idea anyway. I have a 1947 Dodge Special Deluxe. I have converted the existing taillights to a dual filament bulb so that the brake lights activate on both sides and the center. I could install a column mount signal switch that would utilize the brake light as a signal but they are very small therefore I would prefer a separate lamp for signal. A surface mount would be ideal but I am not adverse to creating a mounting hole. Amber is desirable but red would work as well. In my location there aren’t any dealers with stock that I can try to test fit for matching curvature and appearance. Everything needs to be ordered with a no return commitment. I am looking for ideas on what others have done to add separate turn signals to the rear of their vehicles.
  15. Thought I’d close this thread out with success photos. The mounts arrived quicker than I expected. They seemed soft enough with the fingernail test. I removed the floor board and parking brake assembly to provide clearance to jack up the rear of the transmission. The old ones came out and new ones slipped in. They squished nicely and the engine sat forward about 3/8 to 1/2”. Used the engine crane to lift the front of the engine just enough to slip the support plate out. Replaced the front mount and lowered the engine. The issue of the partially obscured lower pulley has been solved. There is now a bit more than 1/4” clearance between where the belt will track and the support plate.
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