DonaldSmith

Silly me. I thought the copper strap was the spring. Back to the bench.

Here'd the breaker plate with the two metal thingies around the spring. When I first checked things out yesterday, the points were misaligned. At some point in handling today, the spring would not close the points. I can see high speed problems with points closing. I took out the second metal thingie and carefully assembled everything and set the gap. Tomorrow I finish reconnecting everything, setting the timing, etc. Then road test. Fingers crossed. Son-in-law just rented a 3/4-ton truck to haul a trailer to haul the DeSoto to the Convention, just in case.

Thanks, Ivan_B. i just had to order an indicator. Thanks, DeSoto 1939 for the tips. I found an anomaly with how I had installed the points. There is a curved metal piece that fits around the curved spring. Somehow, I had two of these pieces. Sometimes on the bench the points wouldn't even close. Nice and free now, and set at 0.19 or so. The condenser checks out. The dizzy is back in place, and I can connect and adjust things . . . . after an extended break. It's hot out, and my back hurts from standing and walking. I would love to get this over with, but the body says, in good time.

Check spark quality with an indicator - You have my attention. What's an indicator?

Kilgore47: The cap and wires look good. Could the cap leak the voltage but still look good? I'll make sure the wire ends are in the sockets. I'll check for fireworks at night. I have the dizzy on the bench. It looks good. I looked at the centrifugal advance, and it seems to move freely, with good spring tension. I filed the points and will set them at 0.017 to 0.020. I'll make sure they are aligned. I tested the condenser with my new meter. (The black lead has to be pushed in all the way.) 0.24 uF (that's a mu, a small "u" with a long tail..) The old condenser tested at 0.27. Is that better or worse? Ivan B: I completely removed the carb and went through it per Mike's instructions. Occasional starting fluid helps when the cable gets hot and it cranks slowly,. after I've been messing with stuff. I know, replace the cable. It's on my list. (One Joker in the deck: Transmission interrupter circuit. If the interrupter switch is sticking, it can interrupt the ignition. On the upshift? Once I get the beast running, I can try disconnecting the circuit.

My last post must have ben hiding in my computer overnight. Sorry for the double post. I've got new Wally World lawn mower plugs in the car now, gapped around 0.027 - 0.030. The wires look like resistance type. Dizzy on the bench. Going to dig into it today. The big spring is anchored properly, but the points don't line up. The moving point is higher than the stationary point. Offshore wonder? And then there are condensers to learn to check. Crunch time.

Breaking News! We can confidently RULE OUT the carburetor. I popped the air horn, checked passages, checked the step-up-piston, and buttoned up the carb. I ventured out into the neighborhood. The road test showed the same bogging, around 25 PH, full acceleration in 3rd gear. That would translate to bogging down around 45 mph in 4th gear. Back to the garage. On to the distributor. I'll pull that sucker, and go through the suggested things to check. I'll have to review the posts in this thread, and in its predecessor. School daze.

Breaking News! We can confidently RULE OUT the carburetor. I popped the air horn, checked passages, checked the step-up-piston, and buttoned up the carb. I ventured out into the neighborhood. The road test showed the same bogging, around 25 PH, full acceleration in 3rd gear. That would translate to bogging down around 45 mph in 4th gear. Back to the garage. On to the distributor. I'll pull that sucker, and go through the suggested things to check. I'll have to review the posts in this thread, and in its predecessor. School daze.

Worked on the ignition today. Tried to follow the timing light instructions. Disconnected and plugged the vacuum line. Started the engine, with the help of a shot of fluid. (Make note: End of battery cable gets hot after prolonged attempts to start.) Started idling at 15 inches of vacuum, got up to 20 within ten minutes. Isn't 20 my goal? Starts easy now. Ran timing light off a 12 V car. Still too dim; marks hard to see. But I could see timing change with acceleration. Loosened and moved the dizzy. Got up to maybe 21 inches of vacuum. Good enough for now. (Yes, I reconnected the vacuum line.) I felt a little tingle moving the dizzy by the body, so I grabbed it by the vacuum advance thing. The cap and rotor look good - no trails. Should I start working on the carb? Could a gap between the air horn (top) and the body cause my problems? No visible gap. Tightened the screws quarter to half turn. Could that do it? Should I put the air cleaner on and do a test run, or go directly to taking carb top off? NO driving until the opiate wears off. Took two Tramadol this morning, for back and shoulder pains. Feeling better, but sleepy. No way getting behind the wheel. I could take the air horn off and blow out some passages, without getting in too much trouble. Take it easy, think things through. Maybe fall asleep in the magic chair.

I have a "Guode" prism, a knockoff of the "Guide" trade mark. Also, if the hood is polished, I can see the reflection of the traffic signals. Small price to pay for being cool.

Update: I could see getting the car to run well enough to get on and off a trailer and back and forth to a designated parking spot. My son-on-law suggested that we rent a car-hauling trailer, and trailer the queen to the convention, using his half-ton truck. U-Haul's standard offering came very close in size and capacity, but the total load is just a little over his towing capacity. And the car would be hanging forward too close to the truck for sharp turns. He'll be looking into truck rentals, etc. My plan is get the car running well enough to drive. I'll methodically diagnose and adjust the ignition and carburetion systems, after having rested for several days. Ignition: I'm working with the points system. The car wants to run, since I put the two plug wires back into the distributor cap. (I had knocked the wires out earlier, when I switched out the coils. A result of working when over-tired.) I can get the vacuum to 15 psi; the goal is 20. I'm going to use a timing light and follow the instructions. (e.g., disconnect the vacuum line. It makes it easier to rotate the dizzy, etc. ) Also I can check things like the centrifugal advance. I think the ignition system is basically OK. Carb: Mike's Carb has been responding well to my questions. They think there is a blocked passage somewhere in the high speed system. For one thing, I never looked at the passage that is cast into the air horn. I'll also check the step-up piston again. Slowly but persistently; methodically; per instructions and recommendations. Stay tuned for occasional updates and intermittent breaking news.

Wouldn't they both be self closing? Wouldn't the larger one have the higher amperage?

It looks like the electrical circuit allows the transmission to be in first or third gear, depending on where the lever is (Up for Power, where 2nd gear would be, or down for Drive, where third gear would be). Then the upshifting occurs when the gas pedal is eased back, or at speeds of 7 mph or so for the 1-2 shift, and 12-14 mph for the 3-4 shift. You can start in Power (2nd gear), and shift, using the clutch, to Drive (Fourth gear) Or make a stately start in 4th gear. (Early Dodges with the 3-speed transmission and Fluid Drive would often start and drive all day in 3rd.( (The latest term for starting off with the car in an upper gear is, thanks of the Forum, "accumulating momentum". In addition to the instruction manuals on the Imperial Club site, you should get the Shop Manual, which has an extensive explanation of the M5 transmission, with wiring diagrams. To work right, the transmission needs a Transmission Kickdown Relay, and a carburetor with dashpot and kickdown switch. "Good luck. We're all counting on you."

This is the place. Someone will direct you to the Imperial site, where there is a wealth of info on the semi-automatic. I';ll check my shop manual to see what part the electrical circuits play in the shifting, and what gears it is in at the two ranges, Stay tuned.

I could pop for a capacitance meter, but that's another level of sophistication. For these cars, what capacitance values are we looking for? Shouldn't a NAPA condenser out of the box meet whatever capacitance is required? Or they go bad on the shelf? Horror stories abound.

More things to check. Gap the plugs right, to get back to where it was running smoothly at low speeds. Check the throttle plate for full opening. That would be a quickie. (Also the automatic choke linkage. It bit me before.) Check the muffler and tail pipe for obstruction? I could use a suggestion on how to do that. Check the carburetor for blocked passages (Per Mike's carbs). (I just noticed that the air horn has a cast-in passage from the main jet to the brass tube that sticks up into the air flow.) Take another look at the step-up piston. (James Douglas said something sometime ago about the piston getting stuck, and what that would do.) Then go to ignition?

Thanks, FarmerJon. You get the "solution" nod, for your ignition check list and the video on checking condensers. . No one ever told me how to check a condenser with a multimeter. No more crap shoot, if we know the relative health of the condensers. (My transmission is Ma Mopar's M5, postwar semi-automatic, with the fluid coupling. Typically, start in the High range (3rd gear) and "accumulate momentum". At some point, let off the gas, and the transmission will upshift to 4th. The video showing the capacitor testing is for a negative ground system. I would discharge the condenser first, using the DC voltage feature of the meter. The man in the video charges the condenser by setting the meter to mega ohms, (2000k ohms on my meter). This uses the meter's battery to send voltage through the object being tested. He connects the (-) lead to the condenser body and (+) lead to the end of the lead wire. Meter on, and it charges the capacitor until it can take no more. (My meter reads "1" in that case,) Keep the meter connected for maybe 30 seconds, to make sure the condenser fully charged. Switch the meter to DC volts, with 3 spaces to the right of the decimal point. Connect the meter and take a reading of the condenser voltage. The number should be dropping. Disconnect the meter and remember what the last number was. Wait a couple seconds, and reconnect again. The first number should be close to the remembered number. Repeat until the number approaches zero. A good condenser will readily accumulate voltage and will store it for a reasonable time. I would have to play with a number of condensers to see what sort of range I ge, to judge the relative health.

I sent a message to Mike's Carb, asking if there is anything in the high speed circuit that I might have missed in rebuilding the carb. Meantime. I turned my attention to the mysteries of the ignition system. I installed a new coil, Echlin, via NAPA auto parts. Then a bonehead play. The plugs for the Pertronix were gapped at 0.035. I thought I had better re-gap the plugs back to 0.030. Working too hard. I had replaced the plugs when I went back to points. They were already 0.030. I gapped them to 0.035. The car didn't like it. I think I'll re-gap them to 0.030, and clean off the soot. Meanwhile, I'm wondering if the centrifugal advance might not be working right. Is it possible, that ancient alien astronauts . . . . (different show) Is it possible, that there is something wrong with the centrifugal advance system that's affecting the timing at high speeds?

My favorite wrenches. Craftsman, plus one little odd double-ended open end wrench. Maybe 25 years old. Maybe almost that long ago, my wife sewed together the bag from some cloth I bought to go with the car. Each wrench has a marked pouch (except for the little, odd one). The flap folds over and is held with hook-and loop. The whole thing rolls up neatly. (I just found the set today, after missing it for months! It was rolled up, neatly, against some stuff on a garage shelf.)

The extra nuts and washers are probably sent as a courtesy for the fumble-fingered such as I, who drop one or more into the irretrievable chasm below the engine.

The new coil came with a lock washer and nut on each post, and a small bag with an extra set of lock washers and nuts. Should I leave the nuts in place, add the wires and add the new washers and nuts? Or is it OK to use just one sets of nuts? The studs look a bit short for an extra set, so I'll do what I have, lo these many years, take off the nuts and washers and use a single set. If the Wisdom of the Forum is different, I can always redo the connections. Or maybe I'm starting another unresolvable debate.

Per the "Won't Rev" thread, which should be allowed to rest in peace, the car would only rev so fast in 3rd, but could keep up with traffic in 4th. I rebuilt the carburetor to "rule out" carburetor issues. Oh, the car runs sweet at lower revs. And I developed great skills which I may never have to use, but I can tell people about. I took a more extensive drive this morning. Starting in 3rd, it goes well until it approaches 25. Then it stays at that speed, no matter how far I push the pedal. On Woodward, I could upshift at 25 and get the speed up to 45, maybe 50. I could keep up with the bus in front of me, but no better. At the top revs, the engine is not running smooth. I don't want to find out what an extensive run in that condition would do. I followed the carb rebuild instructions religiously. Did I miss something? High speed jet? I sprayed it and blew it out. I didn't try to remove it. Does it have a miniscule opening that should have been cleaned out with a fine wire? It is accessible from the bottom of the carburetor,. so I wouldn't have to take the carb apart. Any high-speed-jet gurus out there? If I can "rule out" the carb, I'll turn to ignition. I made a propitious offering to the gods, and bought an Echlin coil. I had left the Pertronix coil in place when I went back to points; maybe it resents the change. (I'll reset the plugs to 0.035 instead of 0.040 when I change the coil.) I had put a new condenser in, with the new points. Will I be playing the condenser game? Suggestions accepted graciously. I can try something, and take a drive. At least a short drive would tell the tale. I should be able to floor it in 3rd and get it up well past 25. Stay tuned.

It's worth a try. Thanks

(The forum is bugging me to select "Which post is most favorable? Mark as Solution." That's tough to do, when there are several reasonable suggestions and may be nothing hit the nail on the head. Maybe I'll make a final Executive Summary and designate that.) I did a test drive today. Starts well. Accelerates quickly (For Fluid Drive). Neighborhood cruise good. Starts in third, accelerates "briskly" up to 20, tip-toes into fourth. I got on Woodward, speed limit 45. Accelerated well to the point that it wanted to tip-toe into fourth. Seemed to bog down a bit. I tip-toed it into fourth and got to 45 mph OK. (Isn't the governor supposed to kick it into fourth when the engine revs up in third to about 45? Of course, I usually to tip-toe the upshift sooner.) I need to test it at higher speeds. Will it get to 60, 65, 70,without bogging down? Maybe the local freeway will have light traffic this holiday. Stay tuned.

Carb together by noon. On the car, primed, accelerator pump squirts, engine fired up. Engine died. (Had to set the idle speed.) Purrs. Revs up, a little roughness. Next, a shakedown cruise through the neighborhood. Stay tuned for the next exciting adventure.