55 Fargo

Okay a couple of things.

Yes the 25 inch engine will fit, your front engine mount will need to move forward. The rad will need to move forward too, not a big deal.

That bell is it from a C series truck?

The B series bell is different, oh it will bolt up but it has the MC attached to it. The C series truck bell has no such provision for the MC to attach.

The Desoto engine, plus a c series 6 cylinder bell and 8 bolt flywheel and your in business. But you will have the 251 engine moved 2 inches ahead of what the 230 would be. Your 3 spd trans in truck should bolt to correct C series bell too.

Keep us posted.

If you have a stock suspension in preemo shape and possibly lowered.

A good braking system and tight steering.

Adding a more modern power train is a night and day difference.

You cannot compare a Flathead 6 with my 318. A heavily modified 230 or 265 can and will have HP rating of a stock 2 bbl 318. But it does not take a whole lot to warm a 318 up.

Off the line, acceleration on passing on highway my 318 is a race engine compared to flathead 6.

And the beautiful thing is, the 318 has decent fuel economy and bullet proof reliability.

10 hours ago, NiftyFifty said:

In my experience I wish I could go back and do exactly what you’re pondering, I started my truck with the idea it would just be for short tours, but that gets old soon and once I started investing money in switching to disc brakes and upgraded master cyl and later on rack and pinion steering and many other upgrades like a 251 with lots of go faster parts I still have a truck that isn’t comfortable for real long trips and although I can cruise highway speeds, at 70mph the old leaf spring suspension wasn’t really made for that.

 

If you want a comfortable long distance cruiser then I would recommend the IFS and a reasonable V8, others may disagree, but I’m only going on my personal truck and experience 

While I can agree on power plants I suppose.

There are plenty of lighter cars with a flathead 6 hopped up and some type of OD trans that should be no issues with longer travel excursion.

Engines pulling the cars really shouldn't make any difference if powering the vehicle as needed. Blueskies 50 for instance, nice long distance cruiser. 

The cars from 40s on have decent riding suspensions.

On the bigger heavier trucks ( my 108 wb aint too heavy) the heavy suspensions might not be so much fun on longer drives.

In my case, will redo my bushings springs and shackles at some point.

But in all honesty handling and ride at 70 mph on a smooth highway is not bad at all. Its bumpy winding roads where it aint so much fun.

With respect to a swap, I thought I may never have said this, but my 318/904 combo os friggin great, I truly love it 

With 3.23 gears goi g 0 to 65 mph is as fast as my 2015 HEMI Ram. Off the line she hauls real decent.

This is with a relatively stock LA318 higher compression engine. A hot 318 or 360 would be hairy scary...

George Asche was hospitalized on November 25th as a result of testing positive for Covid19. He has received treatments and will be discharged real soon.

At almost 89 he is very lucky to have lived through this.

Just an FYI.

14 minutes ago, 47 dodge 1.5 ton said:

My father and I was up to see him on the 13th of November— the Plymouth was running plenty healthy as well was Mr Asche?

Wow November 13th and no masks?

George tested positive for Covid 19 and is just getting out of hospital. 

24 minutes ago, 47 dodge 1.5 ton said:

I was up to see Gorge Asche about a month ago and went for a ride in his ‘50 Plymouth w/230. Very mild motor with dual Ball & Balls, head milled slightly. That car will run 65mph all day and 85 if you need to. He does have an O’drive installed. Unless someone needs to be drag racing, that 230 makes plenty of power for a car/ pickup in that weight range and runs smooth. If you really want to keep the clutch/brakes & wheels, I would do the 230 and add an OD trans. That’s only my opinion! 

When exactly were you at Georges place? I thought his 50 was down for repairs, on the road I take it?

Depends on which trans donor you go with.

On an A833 OD trans with either .71 or .73 in OD you want either 3.73 or 3.55 at most. 3.90s would work okay too.

On T5s, early S10 T5s had a .86 5th and 4.03 1st gear. So a 3.23 to 3.73 might be ticket.

On a V8, not a big deal a 318 or 360 off center to right to clear steering box. Cutting a firewall is not necessary at all.

Fabbing motor mounts, trans cross member not much issue.

On B series trucks you will have to mount a brake pedal for MC. On my C series I was able to use stock pedal and MC.

Im running a fairly stock later LA 318/904 combo with 3.23 gears. Love this and would not dream of going back to a flathead 6 in this truck.

You gotta decide whats best for you.

888 the M6 trans and fluid drive coupler by its nature is a rugged old slug.

Unique yes, but hard to get yourself out of its own way, real dogs off the line.

Yes you have low range, drive to like 12 mph take foot off gas and trans upshifts to lowrange 2.

Same idea in high range, i have driven a few cars with this setup and while a novelty, way to much of a dog for my wants.

Yes you could go to a regular dry clutch and a 3 spd, overdrive and other transmissions too.

You could keep the fluid coupler and go 3 or 4 speed truck trans too.

Heck you coukd go 25 inch flathead and dry clutch setup too.

All is your choice.

In my opinion the M5/6 while an interesting trans, is not my idea of fun cruising..

18 hours ago, 47 dodge 1.5 ton said:

I pulled the head tonight to see where improvements can be made. Top of pistons is flush with top of block, head is flat to piston (no recess), head gasket measures .047” thick. Cam has .375 lift both valves, top of valve to block measures .425”. Head max valve depth pocket measures .495”.  This motor has a tremendous amount of build up behind the valves. Motor has never been pulled down for overhaul. Pictures to follow.

Looks like the usual when head pulled.

.375 or .380 lift is a general stock lift. Now duration and lobe separation may be different,than a car or truck or maybe not.

You could always measure combustion chambers to see where your at.

That head if never cut could be trimmed upwards to .100 if need be. Even at a prudent .060 it should bring up compression to near 8 to 1 with block decked flat too.

Going up to 9 to 1 most likely your looking at an aftermarket head.

On 10/26/2020 at 7:02 PM, wallytoo said:

 

when i took my blown 237 apart, i compared the sump/pickup and tubing with the parts from the 251.  they were identical.  so i used the parts from the 237 because they were original to the truck.  the pan came from the 237, because the rear sump position of the 251 pan wouldn't clear the axle.  the pan is not reversible.

Maybe an odd circumstance. 

The 2 pickups 1 front type and 1 rear type were different lengths on 1 particular engine.

The other tubing identical.

If the pickup tube is turned in as it should it will be setup for either front sump or rear sump.

I suppose reversing the direction might just work.

Not that this is a huge deal to me.

I gotta a 265 on floor now with rear sump, when I have time will be pulling pan to inspect bottom end. Will compare pickup tubes at that time.

11 hours ago, wallytoo said:

 

it’s easy to do if needed, but a front sump pan is required.  everything else works with either type.

Last I swapped in May also used a pickup off front sump.

Hmmm sure looked different to me.

16 hours ago, 9 foot box said:

  There is a post on the car forum, about a Chrysler Industrial rebuild. Probably not pertinent to your engine, but interesting. I’m curious if yours is bypass or full flow oil filter. Could you show the other side of the engine?

A lot of the IND engines were bypass.

Not a deal breaker at all. 

They can be converted to full flow or in 99% of typical use on here bypass is good enough.

22 hours ago, 47 dodge 1.5 ton said:

55 Fargo— Do you have their contact that can be shared on here? I am most likely having block cut at a min of .060” oversized, I have been looking for a head and have not came up with one at this time. If new forged o/s pistons are under a grand, I may go that direction and on shave the head/block minimal at this time unless needed later. Thanks for the replies. Kevin

Having looked at your project. I would speculate gping to a high revving performance 265 is not perhaps the goal.

Even Vintage Power Wagon stock pistons would be just fine. 

A cam grind for big lower RPM torque might be considered. Not a redline of 5500 rpm that idles at 700 to 1000 rpm.

The increasing of compression, via head machining or an aftermarket head your choice.

Your factory dual setup with matching big truck carbs will be plenty.

High speed or racing is not the goal I take it with a 1.5 ton truck?

Most IND 265s were rear sumps. I have 2 of them.

Swapping to fro t pickup and pan is very simple if needed.

1 hour ago, 47 dodge 1.5 ton said:

55 Fargo— Do you have their contact that can be shared on here? I am most likely having block cut at a min of .060” oversized, I have been looking for a head and have not came up with one at this time. If new forged o/s pistons are under a grand, I may go that direction and on shave the head/block minimal at this time unless needed later. Thanks for the replies. Kevin

PM both as they use their names on here. Or message Tony Smith or Tim on FB.

Look for a 56 or so 250/265 truck head supposedly the best. 

Some suggest using a Canadian 218 long block head too.

The Industrial head may be the worse on chamber and compression.

Just PM either both are great guys.

Stop guessing and most on here will not have a hot clue on this topic.

Contact Tim Kingsbury and/orTony Smith for experienced knowledge in this area. Others like Marty Bose may have used custom Venolia Pistons in their 230s.

If you can afford the expense on custom pistons great, if you don't want to spend the big money shave the head to increase compression or buy an EDGY head.

In most cases custom pistons are used as they are forged, 3 ring and better quality than the cast aluminum 4 ring stock type.

In most cases on here stock pistons, a hotter cam, higher comp head,  multi carb intakes and headers or split exhaust are the ticket

Good Luck

On 6/8/2016 at 4:49 PM, 55 Fargo said:

Here ya go an updated video, 

Ive recently swapped to a LA 318 stock. No regrets whatsover. A stock 318 is night and day over any flathead 6 that is not highly modified..

2 hours ago, Old CWO said:

 

I  totally agree with this.  A fully gone through stock steering and suspension is plenty fine for a classic pickup truck.  Medium and heavy duty trucks to this day use leaf springs and beam axles up front and log millions of trouble free miles.  

 

For those seeking power steering there is now an under dash universal electric hot rod unit on the market.  It looks like it might be great for B and C trucks with 12v conversions.  I have only seen them online and in magazines but am curious.

Yes totally agree, of course the bih trucks use a beam front axle.

All new parts, less springs and possibly a steering damper of VW Beetle and sway bar, can make it a nice ride.

Power steering, not at this stage of life, but for older people or those with strength or mobility issues it could be a must.

In all seriousness with regard to powersteering, if I wanted it would find a donor to make it work ..

While this looks like a "great idea", is it really though?

I asked poster who mentioned it whether he had done this swap or knows of any done.

It may work great, it may not or be a huge headache.

The stock front suspension on a B or C series truck while not IFS seems to do okay on nice straight smooth roadways. Lighten spring amount, all bushing,shackles, steering shocks etc, yields a decent ride.

Rough uneven roads and sharp curves you notice its limitations.

Powersteering or lack of, is a bit hard at a dead stop, once rolling no problem.

As far as 6s, Slant6s can be swapped in and have been, especially in a C series truck.

But if you are doing all this work, perhaps a V8 such as a 318 or 360 is the ticket.

On brakes, go with what you deem safe and reliable.

Stopping at 65 whether a flathead 6 or V8 aint no difference. Lots of V8s weigh less too.

1 hour ago, B1B Keven said:

Front axle out of a 2wd XJ would cure the brake problem and keep the 5 on 4.5 bolt pattern.

 

Interesting idea, have you done this swap?

If so, how was the job and and hiw does it drive, ride etc?

On 9/11/2020 at 7:54 AM, NiftyFifty said:

I actually pondered this swap as well, but in all honesty by the time you factor in that you lose your bell housing, which is also the mounts for your pedals and master cylinder, you might as well go all the way to a V8 swap.....

 

Then if you’re going to do that, it makes more sense to just put in a whole new clip or at least a kit to upgrade front suspension and brakes to handle the new power.

 

This said,  I rebuilt a 251 and upgraded my front brakes and a bunch of other engine goodies and the T5 trans swap, and I really wish I could go back some days and drop the V8 in and deal with the pedals and brake master moving 

While I agree with most of this,

Front steering and suspension can be kept stock, if in decent form not a problem. No its not IFS, but on smooth roads its not a problem at all, its rough roads it becomes evident.

Brakes, well stopping at 65 mph is the same with a V8 or any other engine and if your brakes are crappy, well you get my point.

On disc conversions, you get all kinds of opinions. I have not driven any old Mopar with front disc brake upgrades so will reserve any comments. Some who have swapped were not overly impressed, not sure if they had some technical issues or not.

Driving environment versus engine type will highly influence your brakes, IE LA freeways versus Highway 2 in North Dakota no comparison in traffic volume or dangerous drivers. 

Some rely on dual MCs for peace of mind which can be dubious, having a decent functioning ebrake might be advisable. On C series truck MC is not on the bell so can be utilized in V8 swap as I did, at least for now.

On my 318/904 swap with 3.23 gears is night and day over flathead 6. With this lower powered V8 its plenty enough for my light truck. She gets up to 70 mph just as well as my Hemi Ram it seems.

If you stomp pedal off line she lays rubber from 1st right into 2nd...lol

Mine is 3 down at trans output shaft and 3 up at diff yolk.

4 is fine too.

So far not 1 issue.

I had my donor driveshaft cut 2 inches to fit. It works great 

Your gonna love this combo. 

My old truck still like 60 mph, but getting there is 3 times faster than an old 6...lol

Yes of course on box. But the VW big steering damper is  used a lot on hotrods. It apparently works real well with steering control especially with bias ply tires.

Don't think getting these boxes rebuilt is real easy. And the Canadian trucks used different steeri g boxes to boot.

Here's the deal, these trucks with stock suspension are pretty good when in top shape and roads are flat and smooth.

I have driven mine plenty on gravel roadsat 50 to 60 mph..

Had mine up to 80 mph yesterday, and it had a lot more.

Not comfortable driving at that speed 

I like 60 mph. But i can get there way way faster over a flathead 6....lol

9 minutes ago, 59bisquik said:

I would love to see what you come up with for a front sway bar. That is on my list!

And is it really necessary?

Hiw do you feel about steering damper.

My steeri g box does have slightly too much play..

9 minutes ago, 59bisquik said:

Pretty sure we chatted about this already! ? 

Gotta redo all springs, shackles bushing.

Wanna include sway bars and maybe a steering damper...