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  1. 18 points
    I've been asked a lot of things by a lot of different people in my life. Giving advice, lending a hand, being politely asked to leave..., they are all generally of a similar class of requests such that not many are ever a surprise anymore. That was true most of my life until as of late. Now I'm getting surprised all the time. Here's some examples. Looking for any and every excuse to drive my truck, I took my kids to a birthday/costume party. In a few minutes parents were asking for kids to pose in and on the truck. Why not? A couple weeks later, again looking for an excuse to drive it, we used it to go to the local Chili Cook-off. It was pretty easy to just put the old slow cooker in the back and drive over. I stopped to drop off my entry and then went and parked. Within 30 minutes the organizers were looking for the owner of "that old black truck". They wanted to park it in the middle of the event for ambiance. Well, ambiance and picture poising. So many people wanted to crawl in and out of it, my view was obscured more than once. The wife bought a new mattress and box spring from Sears but refused to pay the $80 delivery charge. She was going to bring it home on the top of the Ford Escape. I mentioned that I had a truck which she had not considered. Not sure why she didn't - too "special?". We laughed. So we drove down to the outlet, tied the new items up and headed home. Near home I was trying to make a lane change but was blocked by some lady in a car. She kept matching my speed! I finally just decided to turn right. She ducked in behind us and followed. I remarked to the wife that if she pulled along side that the truck was $17,5k firm. We laughed and turned left. The lady followed. A couple of stop signs later, the car behind us pulled up and waved for my wife's attention. Seems she was getting married Saturday and wanted to be taken to the church and reception in my truck. My dirty, old, smells like gas, farm truck. If you would have seen her smile, heard her excitement, you wouldn't have said no either. What to charge her got me thinking about one of 48Dodger's blog posts. The question was about being able to put a proper the price on our parts or services. I was struggling with that and it took me a while to come up with a clear answer for myself. In the end I didn't charge her a penny. Couldn't really. There was no price on a blushing bride, clearly happy about going to her wedding in an old farm truck. There was no payment large enough for the looks on people's faces, the thumbs up, as we passed them on the way to the church. You certainly could never have found enough of any payment of any kind for the entire church gathering's collective look as we drove off with the newlyweds in the front cab. I got paid with this story. With smiles. Good feelings all around. I'm lucky enough to be in a position to make some people happy. Whether you know it or not Tim, you do the same thing for a lot of people here. Did for me.
  2. 12 points
    Duskylady

    She's Finished!

    It's taken a long while but we got her put together this spring. Her name is Bettie. She ran so well that we chose to take her to the Hot Rod Dirt Drags in Monte Vista, Colorado. Won 1-3 against a big black merc. Blew up a second flex plate and found out the steering column needs a new bearing. Even with that she drove there and back home without a complaint! Woot!
  3. 11 points
    · · For Decades I have listened to people talk about Flathead Mopar 6 Cylinder Engines in terms of intakes, what is the best carb configuration for their particular situation. Discussions on putting two carbs and those who claim to be sure that is too much carburation or that it will use to much fuel. Then every once in a while the discussion of 3 carbs comes up, and that almost always sparks the debate on how it would take a race motor to need it, or how the engine will bog, or run poorly. In the last 20 years with a good friend of the AoK boys coming across a huge stash of 2 barrel carter weber carbs which were designed for slant six engines, the discussion on utilizing a 2 barrel instead of two singles comes up. I just smile, but then I know that when the stash of 2 barrel carter webers were found, its finder put them on his website as a carb for a flathead mopar. Its amazing how a market can be created and how quickly – “this is the way to go” spreads like rapid fire, without as much as any background check into something. But 1st, let me go back to the 1st time I heard the discussion on multiple carbs vs a single multi-barrel carb, or put another way, comparing that “old technology carter ball and ball vs a modern 4 barrel carb”.. It was about 45 Years ago, when I 1st heard someone in a conversation with my Grandfather and my Dad, suggesting they knew a lot about Flathead Mopars and were sporting a 4 barrel carb on a homemade intake. This gentleman had played with flathead Ford v8s and had came across a Dodge 2 door sedan from the mid-50s. He was suggesting he had built the ultimate flathead Chrysler Engine and he was one of those guys that whatever he had at the moment was just the best and the only way to go. Well after my Dad explained he had far from the ultimate flathead Chrysler, and that his wife’s daily driver (my Mom) was good enough to kick his ass, Dad pulled out my Mom's pickup. It was sporting a bored out 265, with a cam, a factory dual intake and exhaust with a pair of carter ball and balls, and an a833 4 speed tranny. After a little bit of fun that really wasn't much of a contest, licking his wounds sort of speak, Mr "Ultimate Flathead Chrysler" started down the road of excuses when Grandfather shook his head and cut him off at the pass. Grandfather like my Dad were automotive Engineers, and Grandfather literally knew more about Chrysler Flatheads than any person alive. Given he saw the very 1st flathead roll of the line in Windsor, Ontario Canada in 1935 and saw the last block cast in 1959, he had some pretty good credentials to give a lecture. What is explained in a few minutes was not only how the flathead engine worked, but why the engine this gentleman had came with only 1 carb failed to perform. Most think that 1 carb was put on the engine and that it has sufficient carburation for the engine, and if it needed more, Chrysler Engineers would have put more on. On a basic level that is true, but what engineering was building was an engine to a specific HP, torque and fuel consumption target and not to get the most out of the engine, make it as efficient as possible or even have it run to anything close to 100% optimum performance. By Optimum performance I am not talking maximum hp or maximum rpm or optimum fuel mileage on a vehicle. Grandfather then explained that in fact when Chrysler was faced with the need to meet a 5 ton truck specification for dump/plow trucks asked for by Canadian Municipalities during the winter of 1950, that the requirement had filtered to engineering in late 1950. They developed the 265 ci motor which was 3 7/16" bore and 4 3/4" stroke and have dual carbs and dual exhaust on them, which was what was in Mom’s pickup. Few realize that that engine actually had more hp than any other engine on the market. I will attach the picture of the poster that was on Grandfathers office at the time. I gave it to George Asche Jr years ago. In any case you can see the hot v8 mopar had in 1952 was 133 hp and the flathead 6 had more hp. As an aside Grandfather with the cam grind out of the 1952 Chrysler that engine exceeded 150 hp at the time, but given the time, energy and money that have been invested in the new Hemi v8 that was never going to see the light of day on any marketing information. That engine and the fact it had a factory intake, immediately became a stock car favorite in the 1952 season, when Mopar dominated stock car racing everywhere it landed. In any case Chrysler didn't just put on a second carb on it because they needed more carburation. By then Chrysler already had Carter building Ball and Ball carbs from 85cfm - 425 cfm each and we now know they had a 625 cfm carter ball and ball single barrel carb if they needed it. The reason for two was the basic issue, some would call flaw, but Grandfather would call basic restriction to taking the engine to the next level. I say that folding back to the earlier point that Chrysler was building engine to a spec of "x" hp, "y" torque and "z" fuel consumption. The flathead 6 build by Chrysler has 3 Siamese intake ports, each of which feed two cylinders. Setting aside the exhaust for a second, and keeping in mind that an engine is really just a giant vacuum pump, putting 1 carb in the middle of the block, basically over the middle intake port feeding cylinders 3 and 4, means that if all cylinders are the same in compression ratio and ability to create vacuum and suck in a fuel mixture coming from the carb, then cylinder 3 and 4 are going to get more fuel than the intake ports feeding cylinders 1 and 2 or 5 and 6. Yes Chrysler made intake modifications to help that, but they again were not trying to make the perfect engine, just have it meet specs required. As a little aside if your look at intakes from the 1930s through to the 50s you will notice Chrysler Engineers raised the level of the carb. With the Dual Carb truck intake it also was raised further with governors placed under the carbs. The height of the carb mounting above the intake posts can easily be seen to rise from the 1930s to the 1950s. Its also why if your look at some of the aftermarket dual intakes made in the 30s and compare them to say the 3rd generation Edmunds in the 50s you will notice a huge difference in height. The raising of the carbs and providing a smoother run from carb to the intake ports saw huge benefits in performance. Of course maybe buried in the story is the fact that early intake was designed for a marine application where quick rev was far more the desired trait than was torque. When the intake was moved to an automotive application you would find a quick rev with the clutch engaged, but disengaged there is a significant loss in torque and it will actually burn more fuel than a single carb. But back to my story, if we now add the exhaust component into your stock Mopar flathead (or L-head) which depending on what year engine and what vehicle, has the single exhaust exiting at one of a few different locations. For this discussion lets say it exits at the back as does the post ww2 cars. What you find is as the cylinders push out exhaust there is almost no restriction or back pressure at cylinders 5 and 6, but there is a great deal of back pressure at cylinders 1 and 2. So here we have the most back pressure making it tough to push away the exhaust and actually the front intake port receiving the least amount of fuel. While the engine meets specs with no problem, its clear that if you can balance the exhaust, by having 3 exhaust cylinders exit through 1 exhaust pipe and the other three through a 2nd pipe, you can better balance the exhaust back pressure. We sort of glossed over the fact that while there are only 3 intake ports, each cylinder does have its own exhaust port. Something that changed with the introduction of the slant 6, which had 6 equal intake runners each feeding a cylinder. Back to the flathead, if we can better distribute fuel to balance the opportunity for each of the 3 Siamese ports to get fuel, then the engine will run more efficiently. So if you were to take a big block 25 1/2" engine, and anyone of them, not just the 265 and put the factory dual carb and dual exhaust setup on it and then put on the appropriate carter ball and ball carb on it, it will gain hp, torque and improved fuel mileage. The reason is it runs more efficient. The same takes place with the 23 1/2" USA small block which has the same intake and exhaust configuration, although slightly smaller ports. If you take it one step further, putting 1 carb on top of each intake port, you can provide the optimum amount of fuel efficiency for the engine. Back to our 4 barrel friend, putting on a large carb just provides a further opportunity to over fuel the center siamese intake port. When he hammered the throttle it was actually not able to burn all of the fuel in the middle two cylinders and was “bogging” ,until it could gain enough RPM to use some of the fuel. When he was running against Mom’s pickup which had more balanced back pressure, and a better distribution of fuel he had no chance even if the engines were internally the same. Of course they weren't but that is another story. Years later when we created the AoK triple intake, we placed the first intake on an almost rock stock 201 ci motor. It had been rebuilt stock, although required to be bored out 10 thou to clean up cylinders. Beyond that it was a stock cam, intakes etc. With 3 of the smallest CFM carter ball and ball carbs on board and headers made from a stock exhaust systems, the car ran smoother, had better acceleration and got 6 miles per gallon better highway mileage over the single carb and single exhaust. In the end, it is just a myth that you need some bored out, cammed up engine for 2 carbs and a full race motor for 3 carbs. The reason why Chrysler didn't run 3 carbs was simple. 1) The cost of 3 carbs was no inconsequential 2) They could meet the HP, Torque and Fuel useage targets with 1 carb. The exception was when there was a time window where the dual carb, dual exhaust 265 ci motor was released, but with overhead valve v8s and Hemi's coming shortly after the multiple carb flathead life-cycle was short lived. There is a bit more it than that. I have glossed over a bunch of the engineering parts of why you don't just put a carb directly to each intake port with no equalization tube, but I am sure you get the drift. Unlike a v8 where you might try and make carbs progressive because your feeding a intake plenum that equally or close to equally feeding all 8 cylinders, the flathead engine has 3 intake ports each feeding 2 cylinders so progressive carbs just are not effective. On the flathead Mopar, with either 2 or 3 carbs you want them to produce the exact same fuel to feed each of the Siamese ports exactly the same. Its not progressive in terms of additional barrels or carbs, its progressive by pushing on the gas peddle. The key is making sure both or all three carbs are identical and that you have linkage that operates all of them exactly the same. Its a common misconception that they must be hard to keep synced. We have engines with tens of thousands of miles on them with multiple carbs and are never adjusted. George Asche's 1929 Desoto that he has owned since 1950 likely has an unbelievable amount of miles on it and likely the carbs were only touched when George has redone the engine. I own vehicles with 100,000 + miles on them and the linkage for the dual carbs has never touched. That has a lot to do with just how good Carter Ball and Ball carbs are.. We also get asked quite often about modifying the block to provide 6 intake ports, or using webers or other carbs, or running fuel injection. Dad and Grandfather with too much time on their hands, as my Mother would say, did modify a couple of engines to provide 6 intake ports. There were several intakes made including one with an 18" runner set on it, one with 6 side draft webers and one with modified hilborn fuel injection. At the end of the day, with various levels of success, nothing seems to outperform an Edmunds triple carb intake with riser blocks and 3 matched 1952-56 Truck carbs on them and maybe with some jetting changes. Of course, since then we have developed a couple of new cam profiles and of course the AoK triple which utilizes better and modern casting technology, as well as better flow bench testing and computer modelling that neither Chrysler or Eddy Edmunds had. Have we thought about digging out the 6 intake port block that is still in Dad's shop, well yah we have, but that is another project and a blog entry for another time.
  4. 11 points
    February 6 1932 my good friend and second Dad, the Grand Master of Flathead Mopars - George Asche was born. Yesterday was his surprise Birthday Party and today is George's 85th Birthday! The picture below is rumored to be when George Graduated High School, but I think really that should be a diploma of future Flathead Chrysler, Desoto, Plymouth, Dodge/Fargo's mastery ! In the background is his Dad's Dodge truck which George still owns today! Happy Birthday George! Oh and if your wondering what George was up to for Birthday. Well - Lunch with his Boys at the shop (George III, Rob and Tim), then building some carbs up, then over to the machine shop for some consulting as the AoK dual carb intakes were rolling through 7 different station. The picture of George with the prototype and the very first one to be completed which of course is his birthday present.. lol A few pictures of the Dual Carb (23 1/2" USA small block) and Triple Carb (25 1/2" Canadian Big Block) intakes going through the steps, and being test fitted on blocks setup with exhausts so that every intake has been checked for a perfect fit. Then it was off for Supper in Knox (Horse Thief Capital of the World) and back to George's shop and setting up tomorrows trip, which is believe it or not, were heading down to pick up George's Uncle Harry Hiens - #90 who is in the Nascar Hall of Fame. Harry lives in Mars PA. Were bringing him up to check out the AoK intakes and take George's newest 1929 Desoto for a ride!
  5. 8 points
    Finally the AoK George Asche Jr Ltd Edition Intake for the all 23 1/2" USA flathead Mopar engines has been completed and is in production. The pictures below has prototype linkage for the 1933-1938 Cars and all trucks and power wagons. You may notice that the left carb linkage bar has been cut short, and is not hooked to the left carb. That is strictly for prototype purposes and the production versions have a longer bar That allows for a linkage bar to come down from each carb to the common rail. It does shows how the serial number and linkage block provides the spot for stock linkage components to be mounted and then integrated with the new AoK linkages. That is critical for the earlier cars and trucks. You will notice for this version we are using the outside "wings" for linkage mounts. For newer cars where we want the linkage rail mounted on the inside, there are inside "wings" that are drilled and the rail is then on the inside wings. The outside block will then just be the serial number plate. Early cars and trucks are different in that they are on the outboard side of the intake, but they also have different connection points for the carbs to the common rail as compared to later model cars.. George has the linkage working perfectly for the several different applications. If you are going to be using this on the truck or older car you would just use your stock brackets and the AoK linkage will just integrate with it, to give you the desired upgrade from the single to dual carbs. Oh yes, and hot debate on the name.. Our original intent was to have the writing read from the passenger side although you may notice it was reversed to be read from the other side. In the production version, we have got the writing of "AoK George Asche Jr Ltd Ed" turned around and in a different font than the prototype. There were a couple of minor changes to the prototype, including making the outboard linkage mounting block slightly bigger, changing the name and a couple of internal items. Today the 1st batch of production intakes are being poured. That process will continue for the balance of the week, they are heat treated and shipped to us. We need to have the casted intakes machined, tapped and threaded which should see the 1st intakes ready to ship in the next 4-6 weeks. * Dec 3rd note: That casting turned out to be 1 being cast with the slight change talked about above. That one was heat treated and shipped to us. We called back and said why did you just ship us only 1. The reply, they wanted to be really sure it was correct. They were given the go to cast a production run and more of our Big Block Triples which have been sold out for months. They have no been all cast and are off for heat treating on Monday. The intake has been a long time coming, even more so given the prototype was completed almost a year and a half ago. Now - down to the brass tacks as my Grandfather would have said - Cost ! Feb 8 2017 Were committed to the pricing of $425 for the 1st shipment as we feel customers have waited a long time patiently for the product and that was our original We will be repricing them upwards slightly as the development cost and the casting price has escalated well beyond where the estimates were when we started. Just the casting price is up 73% which is an increase in the price of the aluminum. For linkage, if customers want us to make them linkage, it will start at $150 and really depends on what linkage is required. By that I mean if a customer needs linkage for a 1933 Desoto, and if they don't have the linkage block tab, we can get that piece and will sell it at our cost, but it is a relatively expensive part. If the customer has theirs and most do, then we will clean theirs up and paint it for them at no extra cost. If its linkage for a 1946-48 Plymouth, then it is very straight forward. Built carter ball and ball carbs are $195.00 each and the will be Siamese twins, meaning they will be exactly the same in their venture, throttle bore sizing and jetting, with all new kits in them and if a customer buys the entire package, George will mount the carbs, linkage, adjust everything and the customer wont have to pay anything extra for that or the carb gaskets. * Note if you already ordered your intake with carbs, the price quoted you is still in effect, even though the cost of full rebuild kits just went up significantly. Shipping is extra and is at cost, or the customer can use their shipping preference and if they have an account utilize that. We don't charge for packing or handling. Our address is George Asche/Tim Kingsbury 1693 fertigs Road, Fertigs, PA 16364 I can be reached directly at Fargopickupking@yahoo.com and we will accept paypal if it is send via family and friends so were not paying the paypal fee as there is literally no margin on these 1st batch of intakes. We will also accept a cheque, money order or if your driving by, cash! A few notes: 1) We will also be receiving a small number of the AoK triple intakes for the Canadian 25 1/2" big blocks. They have been sold out for over a year now so if you were looking for one of those we will be able to ship finished triples by year end. Cost for those is $495 and linkage pricing depends on what your using it for and what linkage is required but typically ranges from $150-$200. 2) Headers made from OEM exhaust manifolds are available for both the USA small blocks and the Canadian big blocks. The last picture is from my 1949 Plymouth Business coupe which has a Canadian 265 ci motor in it and the AoK Triple. Its the same basic look for either the 23 1/2" small block or 25 1/2" big blocks. 3) We now have a source for reproduction GMC (not the Chevy versions with major air restrictions). You can get replacement air filters for them and they are available in Chrome tops or Black. The Black versions are $125.00 and Chrome ones are $138.00. You can see them here in a video posted by Fred Buhay. 4) The Big Note to be aware of: We expect to be able to ship finished intakes early next week, but there is not some big pile of built carbs or linkage sets made up and ready to ship and George hand makes every piece of linkage and rebuilds every carb completely from top to bottom. So if your looking for linkage or carbs or both, on top of an intake, get your order in early as I expect to see a big back log in short order. To date we have note taken orders or money, but have put people on a waiting list. Everyone on that waiting list were alerted 48 hours ago and right now 1/2 of the 1st production run has been spoken for. There is no fear that we will be unable to get people intakes, but the question of when we can supply is potentially a question. Finally if you would like us to call you and answer questions about either intake, we are happy to. Just drop me an email to fargopickupking@yahoo.com with your phone number and when is a good time to contact you and George or I will give you a call. below is the AoK triple on my 1949 Plymouth Business Coupe.
  6. 8 points
    Well the pattern is complete! Attached are a couple of pictures. The one with the blue cores was just before Christmas, and the other two were actually taken last week. The 1st intake will actually be cast tomorrow and then a 2nd one will be cast with the integrated water tube early next week. It will be made with its own mini foam core for the water tube. The tube will be on the inside, or block side of the intake. In that way it becomes easy to make it optional, without changing the outside appearance. Those two should be off to the machine shop early next week. Once that work is completed and everything is checked and double checked dimension wise, we will be doing some testing to confirm our flow numbers and other factors. George will then get into finalizing linkage and all the stainless steel pieces will be manufactured, machined etc and ready to mate up with the completed intakes. Then assuming everything goes well, and there are not too many changes, we will give the thumbs up to start casting the 1st real production batch of intakes, then off to the machine shop. Right now I think we are still on track for delivery in March/April time frames. When they are done as we a have said, we will ship them based on 1st paid for, will be 1st shipped. As I have said before, If your concerned they will be sold out and you won’t get one, don't worry about that. But if you one of those people that has to have one before their buddy has one, well then get your order in to get in the line ! Right now there are about 1/2 dozen ordered. Yes there are many times that in terms of people inquiring about them and expressing interest.
  7. 7 points
    As suggested by Captain Fred in his blog entry on his 1940 Plymouth build, he wanted something done on cams. Well, that can be quite a topic, and while you can find all kinds of article on the "inter-web" on how cams work in an engine, my goal is to put a Flathead Mopar slant on the topic. Of course as my Grandfather used to say, an engine is nothing more and a large vacuum pump. Your cam turns lifting up intake valves, as pistons are being turned by a crank and that creates a vacuum. The vacuum sucks in whatever is near by into the engine. The cam turns a little further, closing the intake valve, we "light a candle" to whatever is in then in the cylinder and after what we hope is a controlled explosion, the cam turns a little further lifting exhaust valves and those pistons coming up push out whatever is left out of the engine.. In the V8 world a great deal of people used to think that making power, aside from the "no replacement for displacement" concept was putting in a wild cam. As time went by in the racing world, while the cam was important, we know it is the heads that are a much bigger factor to the V8 world. Sure superchargers or turbo chargers, trying to jam more stuff into the cylinder and the type of fuel you use for your controlled explosion also became a big factor, but in the world of cam vs heads it is the heads that lead that world. In the flathead Mopar world, fuel isn't entering via the heads, and so it is definitely a cam that leads this world over the heads. Next lets talk about stock lift and duration and even there, Chrysler Corporation made a huge number of cam profiles so the second I toss this out here, its easy for someone to say - "my stock cam is different" and yes I know that. But in high level terms, a cam has two major factors and a few lesser factors. Lift and most of the p15-d24s were a 375 lift and then duration. Lift is how high the cam lifts the valve from its closed position, and duration is the degrees of the 360 degree circle that it keeps those valves open. In other terms how high we lift the valves and for how long we keep them open, whether intake or exhaust valves. Again high level - you are limited by how high you can lift the valves in a flathead by the head. Lift the valve too high and it hits the head. On the duration side, there becomes a point where you have kept the valves open too long and it starts to effect the actual vacuum level in your engine. Remember again, a big vacuum pump. as we open and keep open valves we loose the seal on the vacuum. Of course we do that because we want to get and fuel and air mixture into the engine. The change in duration also does things to the torque curve on your engine, but that is a whole different level of the discussion and I am trying to keep this more on the basic side. Again in general if we keep the intake valves open longer and lift the intake valves higher, we get the opportunity to get more fuel/air into the engine. More fuel and air, and yes, clearly effected by the compression ratio, the more "bang" when we ignite the mixture with the spark plug firing. Now, in the cause and effect department, generally as we raise up the valves higher (aka the lift) and hold those valves open longer (increased duration) we tend to change the rpm idle and things become what most of us call "lumpy". In the good old mopar v8 days of the 1970s I am sure lots remember pulling up to the lights with a guy running a "cammed up" motor and it was idling rough, shaking, coughing an weezing and yes that was also how the timing was set, but it was the duration of the cam that was causing that. When the light turned green and they hammered it, assuming the timing was set correctly, the goal was for that high lift cam to allow for a lot more fuel to get into the engine dramatically raising the RPM and turning the lumpy idling engine into a smooth running race engine. Yes I am isolating and slanting this entire discussion towards cams, when timing can also be a huge factor. No better example being when Big Daddy Don Garlitz was forced to use a 426 hemi after they actually ran out of 392 hemis. He couldn't get the 426 to run as well, and out of frustration he advanced the timing way way beyond what anyone would have thought would work. In fact Don often tells the story that he intended to blow the "blanking" thing up. But as the engine rev'd up that advanced timing suddenly brought out the inner Monster of the 426 Hemi and all of a sudden the 392 Hemi was obsolete in Don's mind! Back to our cams and remembering that the generation of car cams we are talking about were 375 lift. There are two school of thoughts on creating high performance cams. 1st is to raise the lift gradually and some pretty famous high performance cams raise the lift to 380 an and then increase the duration to 242 degrees. The 2nd is to raise the lift up as extreme as we can and also increase the duration. in the 1950s a pretty famous performance cam used a 400 lift. and 250 degrees of duration. The other factor without diving into the details to much, is what I call the split. A great deal of cams have the intakes open and the exhaust close at exact same time, but some use a split. So for example an Esky 3/4 miles cam the intake opens intake valves at 20 degrees and closes them at 50 degrees and the exhaust opens at 57 degrees and closes at 13 degrees. The Schroller full race cam - again a stock car racing - Higher lift and increased duration the Intake - has the intake valves open at 18 degrees and closes at 54 degree. The exhaust opens at 54 degrees and closes at 18 degrees. If you are using a turbo or a blower, you often want a period of time (number of degrees) in which the intake is close and the exhaust hasn't yet opened, or visaversa. The age old question is of course - so how much lift can I have before the engine sounds like it is misfiring. Almost always visions of those 1970 v8 engines coughing and wheezing are the reason for thing that. In reality the flathead just doesn't really act like a great deal of those badly timed, over cammed engines.. lol The reality is in the flathead world it is more a case of the rpm rises at idle than it is about it sounding like the 1970;s v8. Of course most want a cam that sounds like it is rock stock, idles like the engine isn't running, but then they want a Top Fuel Monster to come alive when they hit the throttle. That becomes a delicate balance and is always a compromise. So lets talk extreme. Maybe there is a wilder cam out there, but if there is we have never seen it. Ill keep the origins of this cam a little bit of a mystery, but the cam we use in the Velociraptor is the most extreme cam we know of. I chuckle these days as this phrase that seems to be in vogue again, but decades ago my Grandfather used to refer to a car that had this cam as "The Hot Mess Express". Today we call if the AoK Velociraptor Grind . It is tough to get it to idle below 22-2300 rpm and we have with a ton of work have actually gotten our dragster to idle around 2000 rpm. It will wind up to North of 7200 rpm. You can run an engine on alcohol and will need 3 carbs and need to shift to 6 exhaust pipes for at least 42", to get it to run properly. Its lift is are you ready, 446 and its duration is 280 degrees. At this point we definitely have issues with vacuum and it would be extremely rough at idle, thus increasing the RPM just to get it to idle. For those that figure that isn't possible, by reply is gather up and bring all the cash you can find, because I am happy to say - "How much would you like to bet!". Now from the extreme, to lets say a mid-50s truck cam which topped out around 3600 rpm, becomes the topic where many recipe's for performance have been made. Some by Chrysler Corporation for everything from cars, to boats, to combines and even Massey Harris 101 Super tractors powered by Chrysler Flatheads. The later were built for high torque and low rpm, which is great for plowing a field, but achieving a high way speed, not so much! Today I think we have a catalogue of around 25 cam profiles. Of those we have cam patterns that we use , made for about 6 or 7 cams and of those, the number drops down to 3 or 4 for most engine builds. I think right now among the Kingsbury motorized items we have 14 different cams in use. In the Asche fleet of motorized items I am going to say they have 7 different cam profiles. The major difference, lol, yes I have more junk... I have a marine version, several truck versions, a combine, a water pump, a welder, a compressor which actually uses 4 cylinders to run the engine and 2 cylinders to make air, and an engine that used to be in a certain motorcycle.. lol.. Oh and I have an actual cam from a tank engine, but it isn't in an engine. I could make a pattern if someone ever needed one ! For Fred's engine, we used what many call an Esky 3/4 race cam. The 3/4 stands for stock car racing on a 3/4 mile long track. This is what I today call, a fairly mild cam and we likely sell the most of these. I suspect part of that reason is as I talked about earlier, that people think back to those lumpy, poorly idling v8 engines with wild cams.. The .380 lift cam is going to give Fred 4500 rpm quickly. Its been around a long time and has a quicker rev over stock and was used historically for stock car racing. As you can likely figure out by reading this thread so far, we likely sell the most of these because most guys think they want power..... but..... they want to start it and not hear the engine running or running like a sewing machine. Tons of guys call this cam a race cam.. For me, its far from that. The tech side = 242 degrees of duration and .380 lift Finally I will end the cam conversation for now, with the cam I am using in my 1949 Plymouth. It is what I call a little lumpy but still very much streetable and no, it is nothing like a 1970s over cammed v8 with bad or good timing.. lol but it is definitely aggressive, with a .435 lift and 258 degrees of duration. This cam was developed from tweeking a full race cam through the 1950s and 1960s and was what Harry Hein #90 (NASCAR hall of fame) used at the end of his career. Harry who is still alive would be the uncle of one George Asche Jr. The intake valves open at 20 degrees and close at 58 degrees, while the exhaust opens at 58 degrees and close at 20 degrees. I hope that helps a little Fred, without confusing things too much! Now what is in that Engine of yours, I can not confirm or deny what was originally put in the engine is what is in it now.. Who knows what happens in the middle of the night in George's shop... Only the shadow, or in this case the 1929 Desoto knows for sure.. lol
  8. 7 points
    I was asked if I could start a Nostalgic Chrysler Flathead Racing thread. Of course, Plymouth, Dodge, Desoto, Fargo and Chryslers are all clearly included as are things like a friend of the families who have a Flathead Chrysler in a Model T Ford.. If it has a Mopar Flathead in it, well it likely belongs here. Of course from Stock Car to Drag Racing, Walter Chrysler's engineers have had their fingers in the racing pie pretty much since the birth of the Chrysler Corporation. Along the way the "up and coming" Flathead Chrysler earned its reputation for taking on and blowing away the competition with V8's and more. Along the way, I hope this becomes a spot those who once had closely guarded secrets on how they got a "little more" out of their Flathead Mopar might finally tell all.. I know from the AoK racing family the 50s were the start and the golden age for George Asche and Eddy Kingsbury. George who in the 50's would campaign his 1929 Desoto, powered with a highly modified 265 Chrysler in the famed "Flying Mile" on Daytona beach where he would go undefeated. George raced V8's and even a v12, in a competition that say a big Chrysler Hemi. In the end George whose top speed was 142 mph.. Yes 142 mph would become the gold standard at the Flying Mile that season. While there is no longer Drag Racing on the beach, George still owns the 1929 Desoto, and it still has no problem meeting all the speed limits in North America. On the north of the 49th Parallel flathead racing say the building engines driven by some legendary stock car racers, among those the Legendary Jimmie Howard who was one of the 1st Canadians whose full time job was racing stock cars. That also saw the very 1st multi-carb car in stock car racing history, when Wellington Motors in Guelph Ontario received their 1st "nudge nudge wink wink" dual carb, dual exhaust manifold set that went onto a stock car in the spring of 1952. Armed with the Chrysler Engineering parts Manual supplied by my Grandfather, my Dad waited for inspect to defend the usage of the dual car and dual exhaust combination as it technically met the rules of the day. So as promised.. here is the start of the blog entry.. If you wish, post away.. if you want to email me stuff that you want me to post on your behalf or as part of the blog, feel free to send them to me at - fargopickupking@yahoo.com
  9. 7 points
    In creating this spotters guide for Flathead Plymouth, Dodge, Chrysler, Desoto, Fargo intakes my hope was to show related information, pictures of various intakes, and attach any technical information and perhaps vintage ads for them. I am starting it here in hopes of putting something together with the help of many members and then maybe move it to the technical archives. If there is lots of information coming forward, then maybe it becomes a given thread for each different intake For now will do it as a grouping. Why do it here ? Only because I or someone can edit and compile. So 1st up Eddy Edmunds stuff - in my mind the Godfather of custom Mopar flathead intakes.. Attached the picture of 3 of the Edmunds intakes. the dual carb Chrysler, Desoto and Dodge Truck (25 1/2" flathead) and the Edmunds triple for the Chrysler, Desoto and Dodge Truck (25 1/2" flathead) Courtesy of : http://p15-d24.com/user/296-ralph-d25cpe/ The Edmunds instruction manual pages with Linkage Courtesy of: http://p15-d24.com/u...5770-61farnham/ A 1st generation Edmunds dual carb intake for the Plymouth and Dodge (23 1/2" flathead) A 3rd generation Edmunds dual carb intake for the Plymouth and Dodge (23 1/2" flathead) Courtesy of http://p15-d24.com/user/6715-dwest999/ Here is a 2nd generation Edmunds dual carb intake for the Plymouth and Dodge (23 1/2" flathead) with integrated water and for two barrel carbs. This is the Edmunds "Pancake" Intake
  10. 5 points
    Hi guys - As covered on the earlier blog entry, we have an adapter kit that allows you to bolt up a modern A833 floor shift overdrive on to your stock bell housing. Please read this blog as it covers a lot more details. We recently got a new supplier, and have kept the aircraft grade aluminum. The have drilled and bevelled holes for the flush mount and come with the appropriate bevelled bolts, and have threaded holes were required. The truth is we could have done these at a fraction of the price if we had done them in steel, but from weight to corrosion, we decided just to do these like the originals we made a number of years ago. As George Asche says, if we cant make Grade A stuff, I don't want our name (AoK) associated with it! Lol.. They are in stock right now and they are $140 USD each (adapter plate and bolts) shipped anywhere in the Continental United States. A 2nd, 3rd or 4th adapter plate would be $125 USD each and all go in the same box, so you save the shipping on the additional plates by a combined shipment. And watch folks.. there are different length snots on the a833. and different shifter positions. We have heard the 1979-80 car is long and shifter near at the back on the tranny. That is going to be like the t5, really too far back for a lot of applications. So measure from your bell housing to your stock floor shift (if you are floor shift) We got them in this week and have already started shipping adapter plate to those who were on a waiting list. Thanks to those who have been patiently waiting. ** We have recently been asked if the adapter plate will work on trucks. The 1st response being what truck and what transmission is in it now. We know of conversions that have been made, but they were all in late 50s pickups that had light 3 speeds with car style bell housings. *** Nov 21 - In addition to the car bell housing there are several bell housing in trucks. We will take 4wd and heavier trucks with 5 speeds out of the mix here. We believe that believes us with 3 bell housing patterns from the late 30s to the late 50s. The one with the car style bell housing , 3 speed column shift our current adapter plate should work. For the heavier 3 speed or light 4 speed both floor shift, the bell housing is the one at the top of the attached picture, which has 2 holes equally spaced on the right and left of the bell housing. For this one we are going to develop adapter plates for. The other bell housing pattern is the ones at the bottom of the attached picture. It has the 2 bolt holes on the right closer together than on the left side. This is for the heavier 4 speeds in heavier trucks. While it looks like you can use our existing adapter plate, by drilling 4 holes, tap them and use our adapter plate, we have not actually tried it. At this point unless there turned out to be a demand for them, we don't intend to make new adapter plates for this bell housing / the heavier trucks at this point. The reason being, we really need to make a minimum of 10 pieces, and to make the price reasonable 25, so unless there is a demand we don't anticipate it doesn't make much sense to make them for the heavier trucks. * Update: The adapter plate is completed for the trucks now. Pricing is for the car version, in the continental United States the adapter kit (plate and bolts) are $140 shipped and truck adapter kits are $150 shipped. Outside of that area cars are $125 + shipping and trucks are $135 + shipping. If you want 2-4 plates they can be shipped in the same box so you save the shipping on those additional plates. As usual happy to accept emails or give you a call to discuss.. Let us know if you are interested in either truck version. Tim fargopickupking@yahoo.com .
  11. 5 points
    Well folks as 2016 starts to wind down we reflect on the year and what a different year it has been. It seems like just yesterday the new year started and here we are in December! What a magical month December is. The countdown to Christmas is well under way. Santa Claus parades throughout the world. Cities and towns lit up every night with fabulous Christmas light displays. School kids and churches putting on Christmas plays and pageants. Hopefully hearing the sounds of coins and bills dropping in to the bottom of the Salvation Army red kettle drums and other charities receiving support for all the great work they do. The elves at the North Pole working furiously to satisfy the wishes from the tons of letters arriving at the North Pole. Hockey fans counting down the days until the IIHF U20 World Junior Hockey Championship tournament begins (Had to throw in some Canadian Hockey influence here) and visions of getting your Mopar out next spring dancing in many automotive enthusiasts head. I am sure every Mopar fan has made their list of parts they hope to find under the tree Christmas day, and I am sure a lot of good Girls and Boys will find a few Mopar related items boxed up for them. I definitely know the AoK boys shipped a lot of stuff to the North Pole recently as, well we subcontract to Santa for some of those harder Mopar items that his elves have a difficult time to make! lol We often get Christmas cards and Christmas wishes, many come in different forms as technology evolves. Here is one of our favourites containing a lot of our favourite things - a Fargo pickup (great for hauling presents), a little Mopar Period Performances additions, and of course that it has Santa ! On behalf of the Asche family; George Jr and his sons George III & Rob, the Kingsbury family; Tim and his son Dan, collectively known as the AoK boys, we wish one and all a Very Merry Christmas and a Happy and Prosperous New Years!
  12. 5 points
    In this sport its funny how many times ones path crosses with a kindred spirit, This blog entry is of just such a person, whose daily driver, and I do mean year around daily driver, got another performance improvement. Not its first and not its last. Proud to have a good friend of the AoK boys document his baby's latest performance update. Here we go - As Fred started out - "Hey all, had a suspicious package arrive today at the local Canada Post Office inside the General Store. Much to my thrill, a AoK Asche Dual Intake/exhaust, BBI carbs, and a A833 adpater plate was in the box, T5ers eat your hearts out.. Now the big plan for phase 1, pull stock manifolds, clean up engine paint and make all nice and purdy. The new duals will be installed, with George Asche carbs and linkage, these are the large cfm truck carbs too. Hope to get a lot more punch out this old 238 engine, gonna be kool. The A 833 trans, have 1 in the wings, not sure how well it will be with my current 3.23 gears, but do think it should be just fine. I am not sure if I will be pulling the head, and having it shaved, but that is a possibility. The final plan at some future point is the ultimate 265 hot cam, shaved head, will definitely push this little old Fargo along real nicely...."
  13. 5 points
    One of the quickest ways to get a quick health check on your electrical system is watch your ammeter! It will tell you all kinds of valuable information if you know how to read it! Most modern cars now use a voltmeter to provide limited information about your electrical system. Or even worse just a warning light to let you know your alternator has failed. Because voltmeters are now the norm the skill of interpreting the information the ammeter provides is becoming a lost art. Let’s walk through a driving sequence to understand what the ammeter will reveal about your electrical system. Entering the car your the ammeter should be reading "0", straight up. You may see a quick defection to the minus side if your have an interior light that comes on with opening the door. It's at "0" because you are not using any or generating any current (engine is not running). When you turn on the ignition you will see the needle move slightly to the minus (discharge) side indicating a discharge of a couple amps. This means your ignition system is getting power. When you hit the starter the ammeter will deflect sharply to the left (minus 20-30 amps) as the starter spins. The energy for the starter is being drawn straight from the battery. As the engine fires the ammeter will quickly move to the plus side (charging) of the gauge in the 20-30 amp range. The energy that was drawn down from the battery while starting is quickly being replaced by charging current from the generator. As you start driving the voltage regulator will manage the amount of charge needed to go back into the battery. After around five minutes of driving typically the battery will start to approaches full charge and you will see a reduction of charge rate down to 1-3 amps on the plus side. At this point the battery has fully recovered from the starter discharge and now the generator is putting out only enough current to maintain the charge. The voltage regulator manages the on-going charge rate.

 While your driving night time is coming and it is getting cooler. You turn on your headlights and start up the heater fan. Immediately you see the needle momentarily jump to the minus side, then come back to 1-3 amps on the charge side as the regulator manages the generator output to meet the increased demand. As you come to a stop sign and the engine speed drops, the ammeter will move sharply to the minus side, often 15-20 amps down. You notice the lights dim and the heater motor may slow. Right now your generator is not creating enough power to offset the increased load of the headlight and heater motor and is drawing backup power from the battery. This lack of sufficient power generation can fully discharge a battery if allowed to go for a long period. The short stop at the stoplight however, is not harmful. In fact, you can always bump the manual throttle to bring the idle up enough to stop the discharge. As soon as you accelerate from the stop the generator will again start generating sufficient current to replenish the energy pulled from the battery (expect a jump to 5-10 amps charge for a short period) before settling back to a trickle charge of a couple amps while driving.
 
So how can you use if for some basic troubleshooting? When you first get in and step on the break pedal, the ammeter should deflect slightly to discharge as the brake lamp lights. This lets you know the battery has some charge. No deflection? Battery is probably dead or disconnected. Also when you turn on the key if you don't see a slight discharge indication your ignition is probably not connected or functional. If when turning on the key and immediate your have a full discharge (minus 35 amps) you have a dead short that needs to be repaired. Immediately turn off the key and begin trouble shooting to find the electrical short. Otherwise you risk the very real danger of a wiring fire. Might start your troubleshooting at the headlight switch as they have historically been trouble spots due to corrosion resistance in the connectors. If you are running and suddenly see a continuous discharge usually this indicates a voltage regulator issue. Try tapping the regulator case with a screwdriver handle to see if a relay is sticking and it starts charging again. On teh other hand if you see a continuous rate of high charge (> 20 amps) that never goes down you may have a battery starting to fail (it's not taking or holding a charge) or a voltage regulator failing. Either way it's time to troubleshoot the generator and regulator charging circuit. 

By watching the action of your ammeter your can easily tell if your electrical system is functioning correctly. It will tell you if you have a short, your battery is full charged, how fast it is charging and how much current your are consuming while driving. Compared to a voltmeter which simply gives system voltage, ammeters allow you active monitor your electrical system. 

Share what on the road lessons have you learned by paying attention to your ammeter!
  14. 5 points
    Howdy Folks - Well while we are awaiting the first lot of intakes to be cast George has been busy working on various linkage combinations. Here is the 1st look close up of the finished prototype AoK dual carb intake for 23 1/2" USA flathead mopars. This one has - prototype linkage being developed for trucks or 1933-1938 Cars Notice the left carb linkage bar has been cut short, and is not hooked to the left carb. That is strictly for prototype purposes It shows how the serial number and linkage block provides the spot for stock linkage components to be mounted and then integrated with the new AoK linkages. You will notice for this version we are using the outside "wings" to linkeage mounts on the outside. For newer cars where we want the linkage rail mounted on the inside the inside "wings" will be used and the outside block will just be the serial number plate. Of course the final linkage for older cars and trucks, will have a longer linkage bar and the same connection to the carb as you will see on the right carb. Of course on the carbs you will see a mounting spot for cars and for trucks. They actually connect in two different spots. I can tell you George has the linkage working perfectly. You would just use your stock brackets for trucks and older car applications and the AoK linkage will just integrate with it to give you the desired upgrade from the single to dual carbs. Oh yes, and hot debate on the name.. Our original intent was to have the writing read from the passenger side although you may notice it was reversed to be read from the other side. Oh and the cat is out of the bag, as the prototype wasn't supposed to have the name on it yet.. lol.. so lets say George was a little surprised as he didn't authorize his name on it.. That one I own although he smirked and lets just say he appreciates the tribute! so the "AoK George Asche Jr Ltd Ed" intake development is pretty much complete.
  15. 5 points
    Well it has been a while since we last checked in with the progress report on the New AoK intake. As does happen some things just throw a curve ball into a project and the water jacket feature was our curve ball. We have a perfectionist as our pattern maker and while it didn't increase in price, he most certainly put in a ton of extra time trying to come up with a solution to the water jacket "perfect solution". The perfect solution really became comprised of two factors. 1) We asked if it was possible and if so how much of a deal would it be to have 1 set of molds, that allowed for the creation of the intake without and then with the water jacket. We were doing that based on a pretty much split down the middle in response from customers on what they would ideally like to have. 2) Was is there any difference in having the water tube integrated on the outside or the inside. If it is on the inside it would look better as things are a little more hidden and we don't have any issue with the it interfering with linkage required for vehicles needing linkage on the outside of the intake such as trucks. So between #1 and #2 we went from being a couple of weeks ahead when we were ready for a 1st cast early in January, to being a month or so behind. Lol.. welcome to the world of trying to make as perfect a part as you can. Now for the good news: The final molding (not just the prototype molding) is now finished and what we hope is the final intake before going to production with be cast this week. It will be shipped to us to be checked over, then machined to make sure it is 100% in line with the specs. Then assuming its two thumbs up we will go into production casting the intake without the water jacket. No, don't panic, we will then insert the add on mold piece and be able to cast the intake with the water jacket. So we are making progress and the there are some great things coming from the process but it is taking time. Expected shipping of intakes to customers... still shooting for April time frames. ****************************************************************************************************************************** Appendix: This is a picture of our AoK triple for the big block. It has a set of AoK headers made from a stock exhaust manifold. Customer wanted white ! These two pictures are the AoK triple on Tim Kingsbury (my) 1949 Plymouth Business coupe. It gives you a good idea what the headers look like mounted on the car. Personally I prefer the look over other headers as it provides more of a period look and provides the same performance results.
  16. 5 points
    Definition: a surface appearance of something grown beautiful, especially with age or use, which adds value to an antique or collectible and should not be cleaned. Patina: a surface appearance of something grown beautiful, expecially with age or use, which adds value to an antique, collectible or scarce and should not be cleaned, in some cases, and preserved in other cases. I grew up in a farm/ranch environment on the edge of the Southern Nebraska Sand hills. Our neighbors to the east and south were miles away, those to the west were closer, yet our closest neighbor was a mile and a half away. It was the late 40's and early 50's and things were not plentiful. We ate well, had a warm house, a good home life, but not many extras. Most of our toys were made from scrap wood and metal. I made a toy 'self propelled' grain harvester (combine) out of a 12" 4x4, a license plate folded 90 degrees for the header, two pair of large jar lids for the front wheels and a furniture swivel wheel for the rear. We recycled things long before recycling became 'cool'. I have always liked hot rodding. I had scores of the early "Hot Rod" magazines when I was in high school, the ones that were about 3.5 x 7 inches, small magazines. I dreamed of doing such, yet didn't. As I grew older the skills of body work were not mine and the cost of painting discouraged me from 'restoring' older vehicles. When I first saw a patina finish truck, then one big obstacle was removed. I appreciate the skill and labor required for a very nicely painted vehicle yet I have a preference for an original surface. I am not all that excited about the faux patina painted vehicles. To me faux is not foxy. So then the patina surface allows me to 'restore' an old vehicle, enjoy the tasks and become a small part of this hobby. Today I was cleaning small external engine parts such as a solenoid, starter, regulator cap, for repainting. I was using a wire wheel brush and my drill motor. I find it very enjoyable to take a rusty item, wheel brush, sand, etch primer, paint it and make it look nearly new. As I was doing that today it reminded me of my youth. My point is this. There are two very expensive items in the restoration process, upholstery and paint. That patina surfaces are now acceptable and all sorts of implanted seats will work in an old vehicle, those two items no longer prohibit a novice or one with somewhat limited resources from working with an old vehicle. My philosophy is to bolt off, fix or replace and bolt back on. That way the vehicle is never damaged for someone later who may prefer a finer result. Often times, progress occurs when we step back a few paces and reevaluate the larger definitions of creativity and imagination.
  17. 5 points
    Well there it was, the 1st car I ever bought, a 1970 Dodge Challenger... I knew it was a major project, but I was thinking - "well I can get parts to fix this over at the scrap yard at no extra cost and the body looks good." So I was quite pleased with things. I was off for home and Grampa who I thought was heading to the other barn to feed the livestock was busy jacking the car up and removing the wheels, just after I left. He was also obviously on the phone with Grampa Bolton. Home I arrived and my Dad was still at work as was Mom. I remember clearly thinking I best get to Dad first, so I got on my Motorcycle and headed to Dad's shop. I rolled in and walked into the shop where Dad was busy on a project for the Guelph Police, building what was known as Valiant pursuit package. It was a factory 360 police package. Dad and a couple of his team were taking the engine and transmission to the next level.. It wasn't unusual for me to arrive at the shop, although normally it would be after school. Dad was working the 4 to 12 shift so it was a little unusual for me to be at the shop that late in the day. So it wasn't long before Dad said, to me "so what up".. Well Dad, I bought a new car and I remember like it was yesterday his reply - "a new car, you don't say".. I went on to explain that it wasn't exactly new, it was just new to me and that it was really a used car and it had some mechanical issues.. Well it wasn't long before he knew it was a 1970 Dodge Challenger and like every Dad likely would do he said, do you have any idea what the insurance will be on this car. Woops.. well I did think about it, but no I hadn't checked that. Then came how much did you pay for this car and how did you pay for it. I learned many years earlier, you may as well spill the beans, so I told him the whole story, right down to the loan manager who turned me down. The only good news is Dad couldn't stand the guy either, and Dad was about as impressed with the Loans managers lecture as I was. But surprisingly I didn't get a lecture about it was too expensive and he did think it was a great idea to get any parts we could get from cousins John for the car for free, but as he pointed out there are a lot of things on that car that likely wont be found in the wrecking yard. Oh and he would have preferred it was a Plymouth Cuda ! Lol Dad did also suggest I not break the news to Mom until he was home. That was good advise and for the next few days I was chewing off my finger nails, and trying to think if I would ever get to drive the car. Not only was Dad likely right and the parts I would need likely wouldn't be at the wrecking yard, despite it being the biggest yard for likely 100 miles, but the insurance was likely going to be out of reach. The day after Dad knew, I did what every young guy would do in my circumstances.....skipped school and headed to the farm to work on the car... lol what did you think I would do? I drove down to the farm, parked the motorcycle and headed for the barn. About 1/2 way down to the barn I noticed the lights were on in the barn. I remember thinking that is odd. Well surprise surprise, as I walked in the man door there was Grandpa hard at work on the car. He had the tires off the brakes all apart, the drive shaft out, the rear gear set out. Wow.. Grampa just looked up and said, well you want to go get on some farm cloths or you going to ruin those ones. Being the only grandson, I had my own bedroom in the farm house. It was my Dads old bedroom and I had cloths there so when I was working somewhere on the farm, I had cloths that if they got ripped or greasy it wouldn't be a problem. So I got changed and when down to the barn for the update. Grampa who was not a licenced mechanic likely could rebuild anything and definitely repair a car to not only have it pass the mechanical inspection, but usually had them repaired to the condition it would have come from the factory in or better. Its seemed the brakes were in terrible shape, brake cylinders were leaking lining was pretty much gone and when he was checking the rear end oil it smelled burnt so he tore it down. I remember thinking oh boy this car has been run hard and put away wet and were going to wind up rebuilding it completely. So we worked away and come lunch I asked Grampa if he checked the engine. "Nope, that is for you and your Dad." Early in the afternoon we were off to get parts. I assumed we were heading to wrecking yard, but noper... we were off to Wellington Motors where we got 3 or 4 boxes of parts. I mentioned Grampa that I didn't have any money yet to pay for the parts and he laughed. That is ok, I will add it to your tab. As it turned out Jean McLean had dropped of $1500 so the car was really only $3000, but I wouldn't find that out, until well after I had broke the news to Mom that I had paid $4500 for a car that was torn all apart and the engine didn't even run. Grampa Kingsbury had phoned up to Grampa Bolton and I am not quite sure who he called or what took place, but what I know is we sure got a heck of a deal for parts. By supper we had all the brakes completed, tie rod ends replaced and grandfather had the rear end gear up into his machine shop in the driving shed and I am not sure what he did to it, but I do know it was back in the rear end casing, the axles back in and the u-joints replaced. I called home and left a message with my sister that I was working at the farm so I would have supper there. That was not an unusual occurrence. Over supper we talked about what all the car needed and he said - "well when your at school tomorrow I will head to John's and see about tires, and we need a rim as the front rim was bent" and he had a list of other parts he would try and find. The next day, you know I headed to school... lol.. are you nuts, I was at the farm by 7am.. But Grampa was up at 430am had the chores done, had finished breakfast and he was loading up the truck. He smiled when I pulled in as I remembered , and off to Johns we went. It would be the 1st of dozens of trips to the yard. We couldn't find the rim that day and a few other things, but Grampa left a list of things for John to keep his eyes open for. Surprisingly we found brand new tires that had been full sized spares that were in the trunks of cars. That got brand new tires for the front of the car and Grampa had called Gampa Bolton about back tires. In the afternoon Grampa Bolton arrived with a brand new set of firestones for the back of the car, plus another pair on rims for spares. I had pulled out the seats and pulled out the carpet and was over with a garden hose and a bucket of soapy water cleaning the carpet and seats. As it turned out they were in good shape, just incredibly dirty. By supper, the carpet was hanging by a swing beam in the barn dripping water, and the two Grampas had the car up in the air using the rope system for the hay wagon in the barn. Sort of a red neck car list I guess. I really do wish I had taken a picture because it was hard to believe. Once it was up In the air they had put stands that Grampa had welded up and put under all 4 corners and they were pulling out the transmission. When it was on the ground and remember it didn't run, Grandfather Bolton wasn't happy with the way it shifted.. So out it came. It was a 4 speed manual transmission. Grandpa Kingsbury loaded into the front of Grampa Bolton's car for him to take home.. lol.. yes it really was the front, as Grandpa Bolton was driving a vw and it was rear engine with a trunk in the front. About a week later the transmission came back along with a new clutch and rebuilt or built pressure plate that definitely had some factory unauthorized modifications. To be honest I don't remember and didn't write down exactly what he had done, although I am positive Grampa would have given me a very detailed description of what he had done. So a week and a half had gone by and still Mom didn't know about the car. Dad had the day off and down to the farm we went.. When we arrived, into the house we went to see Gramma and Grampa and Dad announced we were down to see the new car. Grampa pipes up and said, well its down in the barn in the same spot as when John dropped it off. The way he said it, I remember thinking he is suggesting the car is exactly as it came, but I knew there has been a ton of work done. I am pretty sure Grampa was lessening the blow given what I had paid for a ridden hard and used often sports car. Down to the barn we went, Grampa with us and Gramma who never ever was down to the barn, was right behind us. She too was coming to see her only Grandsons new car. So in we went and Dad started to look it over.. He slide under the car and constantly was mumbling... "ah hah".. we still hadn't opened the hood and he says, so is that is the way you bought it. I looked at Grampa and then at Dad and said, well Grandpa Kingsbury and Bolton may have helped work on it a bit. I had forgotten the tranny was still out of the car and was over to one side of the barn in the tack room. Dad then says, so next question. do I need to check out the brakes, rear end, and front end on this car. Grampa says, of course you do, I am not a mechanic and Earl the Squirrel (my grampa Bolton) doesn't have a mechanics licence so who knows what we have screwed up. Dad just laughed and inquired who did the brakes.. Grampa fessed up and told him what all he had done. Dad looks at me and said something like, "well its a good thing your grandfathers have your back." So up went the hood finally and Dad took off the rad cap, then pulled the dip stick, shook his head and said, well Son, we have some work ahead.. This engine is smoked.. There is antifreeze in the pan, the 1 cast iron header was visibly cracked so it has been really hot and I will bet the head gasket blew on this head. There was also oil in the radiator so the engine has to come out. Well I don't know it to be a fact, but given the Grampas' didn't put the tranny back in the car I suspect they knew what was coming. So after a pretty close inspection, we were off for home and well.. yes you guessed it, time to tell Mom. We arrived home and I think I pretty much stalled and waited for supper. Then you know, I was busy eating, then well I am sure there was something on TV of great importance. You see while my Mom is only about 5 foot 2 and maybe 120-130 pounds, and at 16 I was 6 feet, 225 pounds and was not someone most would want to try to bully around and my Dad was likely about 240 pounds and had forearms on him that would blow you away... Even Dad and I combined, we were not about to take on my Mom... finally I thought I had gotten out of telling Mom as she said she was going to go get ready for bed and Dad pipes up and said something to the effect of - "Tim wants to tell you about the new car he bought".. talk about letting the cat out of the bag,.. So it was quite a discussion, and yes, what about insurance, how much did it cost, how did you pay for it, and a huge list of questions came from Mom. I can tell you the CIA, FBI and even the Canadian Mounties combined couldn't interrogate as well as my Mom could. The good news is I lived to tell the story, although I have to tell you a few times I thought I was dead, and my Dad was there trying to be supportive, but hey lol there was only so much he could do. I think it was the fact that I had paid more for a used car that needed work, that Mom and Dad had paid for a brand new 1971 car. Of course they got it through an employee discount program and well, it had a slant 6 in it, and mine had a hemi, but of course I wasn't mentioning that because that would have opened up the discussion about how much gas this thing used. Sunday we were going down to the farm for supper and Dad asked Mom if she wanted to go early to look at the car. So down to the farm we go and really, truly taking Mom to look at a car that wasn't running really wasn't exactly a great idea even though Dad and I thought it would be.. lol We all went into the house and after an hour with Grampa not saying to much, I asked Mom if she want to see the car. Down to the barn we went, and honestly it really wasn't as bad as I thought.. As Grampa, Dad and I looked on Mom opened up the door, got into the car and remarked that at least the car was fairly clean, and then muttered but of course for $4500 it should be. Then Grampa who really wasn't exactly a shrinking violet at about 6 foot 6 and 285 pounds says in a low voice. "Oh it was only $3000. Jean McLean dropped it by $1500.. Now I was excited about that news and Dad was nodding like he was impressed.. Mom... nope. she just says, so you just about over paid for the car by $1500. Now how do you respond to that one.. Easy... I think it is in the Kingsbury DNA when your Mother takes a shot like that.... you.......... of course, you stand there, say nothing and pretend your a statue ! Because there is nothing you can say that doesn't get you in more trouble. She then looks down kicks the back tire (honest she really did) and says- "well at least it has good tires so it couldn't have been driven to hard".. Again, Kingsbury DNA ... statue.. you don't say ****..because there is no way you can win or improve your position.. I don't remember, but I can pretty much bet all three of us Kingsbury Men were nodding.. So Mom knows, Dad knows, the car is $1500 less than I thought..Grampa Kingsbury and Bolton have helped fix things up.. we just have the engine to do... we should be away to the races right... well not quite. End of chapter two.. In Chapter 3.. Out comes the engine and the rebuild begins. Keeping in Mind, how bad could it be... lol... Punch line - "At least the block isn't cracked!"
  18. 5 points
    So this isn't about a flathead and to my one grand father, he like Richard Petty would turn up his nose as it wasn't a Plymouth ! lol I have tried to recreate the conversations from my diary posts and what I can remember of conversations. Most of which I think I remember very well... lol.. Whether I did.. well at least two of the people in this story are still alive (besides me), so maybe I will run it by them sometime! My 1st car, was a car my Dad purchased for me. It was a Plymouth with a slant 6 and an awesome car. The guy had painted it red with a white stripe like a Starsky and Hutch car which of course annoyed all the Ford fans. This wasn't my 1st vehicle as that was a Suzuki 250 Hustler motorcycle and the reason for starting with a motorcycle is you could in 1976, get your entire licence the day you turned 16 for a motorcycle. For a car, it was at least a three week process, so the day I turned 16 I was at the licence bureau when they opened at 8am. By 930am I was a fully licenced motorcycle driver ! But back to my story.. During the summer, I was on the motorcycle all the time, and I have no idea how many miles I put on, but it was a lot that summer. During the summer I got my drivers license and got to drive the Fargo at the farm for Grampa Kingsbury, Dad's pickup to the track hauling a trailer with tires, fuel and parts and had the Plymouth if it was raining hard and I didn't want to pull the Suzuki out of the garage. About 2 miles from the Kingsbury farm (where I live today) is a car wrecking yard which is owned by a cousin. Of course in the area we seem to have a lot of relatives, the reason being as Grampa would say ... a horse and buggy could only travel so far.. I was over picking up something for Dad or Grampa I am not sure which and there just being towed in, was a nice looking 1970 dodge. Sporty, Green, Vinyl top and it immediately caught my eye. I went over, didn't see any damage to body panels although there sure wasn't much rubber on the back tires. As I was collecting whatever I had came for, I said to my cousin John McLean, hey I see you just got a new Dodge in. He laughed and said, you don't want that Tim... its not a Fargo or a Plymouth, and your Mom would kill us if we sold you that, although your Dad might smile. I said ok, so what would that cost. John said, that one might just be a little to expensive for you. I said - "well it looks pretty nice".. he said well it is body wise, but it lost water, overheated and blew a head gasket and that is going to be expensive. I thought, expensive.. my Dad is an engineer, my Grandfather Bolton is an engineer, and my Grandfather Kingsbury could just about fix anything even though I am not sure he graduated from grade 8. I said, well John how much ? His reply $4500.. and I went oh.. I worked at a local Hardware store and did manage to save a few dollars, lol.. plus money helping both Grampas and Dad, and I likely had $2 grand in the bank. I said, well John, can I give you a deposit and see if I can round up the money. John said, look Tim, you want it, I will hold it till you can pay for it. How much money you got saved. I told him close to half, and asked how much of a deposit did he want. His answer, no I wont take a deposit. I will hold it until you tell me you don't want it or you can pay for it. So off I went... My Mom was the bank manager at the local bank so she is the 1st one I asked. Mom, I have some money saved for a car. I need to borrow about $3000 to get it. She smiled, and offered for me to go talk to the loans manager. Well that was a setup. I went in, talked to him about buying a car, and to make a long story short he told me he would take my application, but he didn't think he would approve it given my job at the hardware might pay the loan but that I was still going to school and I was also playing hockey during the winter, which paid $50 a week playing for a team in the OHA so he thought I should save my money. Lol.. and they didn't have any idea that this car didn't even run. So next up time to talk to Grampa.. I knew if I talked to Dad it would get shut down by Mom and would come out it needed work, big time work. So Grampa Kingsbury was next up. I went over told him the whole story, that the car needed work, was over at cousin Johns and I needed $2150 to buy the car, and wanted to borrow another few hundred to get it running. Well Grampa did what Grampa would do.. Well go warm up the truck.. lets go see this car. So over to McLean's yard we went. The Dodge wasn't where it was earlier in the week but Grampa didn't care.. Into the office, found out where John was in the yard, then Grampa headed to their house which is right beside the yard. He went in to talk to Johns wife and Mom for a couple of minutes. John's Mom was a Kingsbury, and then out to the yard we went. Grampa who was a large man, about 6 foot 6 and 280 pounds was easy to spot as he we walked across the 100 acre yard and John yells over.. well well its the Kingsbury Boys and I see you brought the big guns Tim.. Grampa just smiled. He then said, well John, I hear you have my Grandsons 1st car here somewhere. John said, well maybe. Grampa then said, well, how much are the parts to fix this car. John said, well I don't have that engine anywhere in the yard, but tell you what Charlie (my Grampa's name).. if you or Eddy (my Dad) or Earl (my other Grandfather) or Tim want to come out to the yard, anything you can find in my yard that you want for this car you can have for $1. So I do have what would be needed to get it on the road, from another engine, a rad, tires etc, but I just don't have exactly what is in that car. Grampa said - ok well I see.. and you want $4500 for this car. John started to explain how rare the car was and Grampa just help up his oversized mitt (hand).. John stopped.. Grampa said, John, don't try and sell us. I am just asking. John said, yes, if it was anyone but you guys it would be a lot more. Grampa said, ok John. Drag it over to the farm and Ill bring you over the money on Saturday. So there you have it.. my 1st car.. Grampa didn't look at it, he didn't see it, he didn't ask a lot of questions. Now maybe I was his only grandson had something to do with it, I am not sure. On the way home I said, I will get you all the money I have Grampa and are we going to the bank to borrow the money. Grampa said, oh no.. you go get your money sometime and I will get whatever extra we need. Then we need to break this news to your Mom and Dad and well, we maybe in a bit of trouble. I dug out the money I had at home, and then withdrew everything but $10 at the bank and down to the farm I went. As it turned out with a cheque I hadn't cashed, I had a total of $2300. So I needed $2200 to close the deal. Grampa and I went over to the Junk yard and into the office we went.. There was John and his wife and Grampa said well John I came to pay for the car. Johns wife Jean said, car, what car.. .. Grampa and I said nothing, and John started to explain about the car he got from a Ford Dealership that was a trade in, and they called him for an engine and when he didn't have one, nor did any other local yard he wound up buying it. She just smiled and said, ok and how much did you sell this car to your Mothers Brother and his grandson.. John told her $4500.. She looked at him and said, $4500.. really.. Poor John was on the defensive. Grampa looked at John then looked at Jean, Johns wife and said, well here is Tim's $2300 he has saved and here is $2200 I am loaning him. You folks can discuss it after we leave and if its $4500 ok and anything different, leave me a note in the mail box if I owe you or you owe us ! Grampa then looked at me and said, lets go look at this car you just bought. So back to the farm we went, and down to the barn we went where John had tucked it away. I said did you check it out Grampa and he said, not before you were here to show me. So we swung open one of the big barn doors and Grampa proceeds to look under it, open the trunk, open the doors and everywhere except under the hood.He looks at me and says - "you do like green don't you". I said, well for cars, yes, tractors no. He laughed. I asked him if he wanted to see the engine, and he said, well if you want to show me, but I know what is under the hood. Given all the trim badging and markings were removed from the car, I was curious if he really knew. So I said so you know its a slant six Grampa? He smiled and said, so have they upped the cubic inches of the slant six to 426 cubic inches. Obviously the gig was up and there under the hood was the legendary elephant that was a 426 Hemi. That's it for part 1. Now looking back, does this qualify as a barn find ? Lol In part 2 : Explaining this to Dad... maybe a lot easier than explaining it to Mom ! Also, the tail of "Kingsbury's stick together" and the $1500 rebate from McLeans.... making the purchase price $3000.. That was good news, lol, would have been even better if it came before I told Mom I bought a car that didn't run for $4500!
  19. 4 points
    Overview: We keep being asked about Mopar Overdrives, so I thought I would do a blog on spotting overdrives. I know from the start this is not the definitive guide, thus I have titled it - "The Rough Field Spotters Guide for Overdrives" and this will start off being slanted towards Plymouths ! This will definitely grow as I need to take some pictures of earlier (pre-1942) overdrives to put up. If you want to add replies with more information, super, more than welcome. If you want to send me pictures and add them in, again more than welcome. I will be putting a list of contributors on the bottom. I say that because my intention if to keep adding to this. As well I will put up a few pictures that I happen to have close at hand, but will adjust, add and change pictures as time goes on. I may also put in a tab with links to other sites, article etc on overdrives as I find them ! Chapter 1: Chrysler started using Overdrive Transmissions in 1934 and Walter Chrysler described it something to the effect, that the use of true overdrive transmissions were made for high speed cruising and award-winning economy should drivers opt for moderate operation. "Walter P. Chrysler at White House (cropped)" by Harris & Ewing, photographer There were several generation of early overdrives used prior to Walter Chrysler's death on 1940, starting with the introduction in 1934 and there use would extend to every part of the Mopar family before the retirement of the L-Head of Flathead Engine Line. We will concentrate here on the early overdrives, leading up to the "peak" of the Borg Warner Electric Overdrive coming out in the 1952 Plymouth Car line with the R10G1 Borg Warner overdrive attached to a 3 speed manual transmission. The R10G1 was used fro 1952 to 1956, when Plymouth then changed to the longer R10J1 Borg Warner overdrive transmission. Along the way in the 1952 Canadian Dodge and Fargo heavy trucks a 5 speed transmission was introduced with an option of having 5th gear as overdrive. Teamed up with a 2 speed rear axle, it provided quite a range for hauling heavy payloads, or rolling down the highway empty. Chapter 2: - The history of the overdrives (short version) On Monday April 13, 1931 when the United States Patent Office opened, Rex Keller was there to file application # 529,666, making 36 Claims for patent of a “Clutch”. This application would eventually be issued of May 16, 1939 as patent # 2,158,544 to Rex E Keller Los Angeles California. The application for patent was pitched to Walter P Chrysler, who would assign it to Carl Breer the head of Engineering to see if they could utilize the concept. In Carl Breers, book/autobiography entitled “The Birth of Chrysler Corporation and Its Engineering Legacy” there is an excellent explanation of what took place and here is an excerpt of that book. It would be during this process that the terms “Keller Clutch” and “Overdrive” would come forward. It should be noted that this “Keller Clutch” is not named after K.T Keller (Kaufman Thuma Keller) who was head of Chrysler Manufacturing at the time, and would upon Walter Chrysler retiring in 1935 become the “hand-appointed successor” as Chairman of the Board of Chrysler Corporation, but was Rex E Keller and inventor from Los Angeles California. Once Engineering had perfected the Overdrive Transmission Carl Breer discussed its manufacturing with K.T Keller, and both asked for a meeting with Walter Chrysler to discuss that matter. Breer and Keller made a presentation on both the “Keller Clutch”/Overdrive Transmission as well as its manufacture Their estimated cost to setup manufacturing was $25,000, to which Walter Chrysler is quoted in Breers book as saying “We can’t afford it; let Borg Warner make it.” What isn’t included in Breer’s book is how the $25,000 estimate was arrived at, or what the recommendation of Keller and Breer was. It is my belief that Keller, who was already stretched to bring the new Airflow to completion made sure the estimate was high enough that the joint recommendation of Keller and Breer would be approved by Walter Chrysler. My Grandfather’s opinion was that this was the most expensive error in Chrysler’s history and ironically mirrored that of Henry Ford with the Dodge Brothers. While it brought the Overdrive transmission to the Chrysler and Desoto lines well ahead of any other automotive manufacturer, it also opened up a Patent that was controlled by Chrysler to its competition through the manufacturing deal with Borg Warner. It would soon be referred to as “the Borg Warner Overdrive”. Well after my Grandfather’s death when Daimler agreed to sell the Chrysler unit to Cerberus Capital Management in May 2007 for US$6 billion, Borg Warner had a market cap value of almost twice the value of Chrysler. Unfortunately it seems Grandfather was indeed correct, and he often pointed out that it was not the 1st time where a smaller supplier was put into business and eventually dwarfed the larger manufacturer. Of course he was referring to the Dodge Brothers who prior to going on their own to manufacture their own Cars and Trucks, were major suppliers for Henry Ford. In 1903 the Dodge brothers had agreed to supply Henry Ford with 650 chassis (including engines, transmissions, and axles) for $250 each. In this case to avoid a further investment of $25,000 Chrysler put a much small manufacturer into a business, which later on would come back to bite Chrysler. To put it into relative terms Chrysler had purchased Dodge for approximately $170 million in 1928. On March 14, 1934 Rex Keller would file application # 715,513, with the United States Patent Office making 4 Claims for patent of an ”Automatic Transmission”. This application would eventually be issued of December 17, 1940 as patent # 2,225,174 to Rex E Keller Beverly Hills California. It would be in this application for patent that the first use of the terminology “Overdrive” would be used. Ironically this patent was not issued until after Walter P Chrysler’s death some 4 months earlier. So who was Borg Warner - In 1902 Thomas W. Warner formed the Warner Gear Company in Muncie Indiana to manufacture automobile parts, steering, and transmission gears. In 1909 the First manual transmission is manufactured by Warner Gear. The original Borg-Warner Corporation was formed in 1928 by the merger of Warner Gear, which itself was founded by Thomas Warner in 1901; Borg & Beck founded by Charles Borg and Marshall Beck in 1903 and Marvel Schelber Carburetor Co founded in 1905 by George Schebler and the Mechanics Universal Joint Company. Chapter 3: The patents - Work in progress. I now have them, just need to figure out how to get them in the blog entry Chapter 4: The overdrive generations This is a high level chart on the various Mopar Overdrives 1934 overdrive 1st used by Chrysler (I believe in the Chrysler Custom Imperial Royal and the Airflow) This was a Warner Transmission and Warner Overdrive Patent Image - R E Keller Patent: 2,225,174 Filed: March 14 1934 Walter P Chrysler showing of The 1934 chrysler airflow - equipped with overdrive 1935 Chrysler - Tr14 warner transmission with a separate overdrive unit. It expanded in the models it was used, some standard equipment and some Optional The models this transmission and overdrive came in were: CHRYSLER AIRFLOW, MODEL Cl OPTL. CHRYSLER IMPERIAL, C2 (1935) CHRYSLER CUST. IMP. CW* ('35), C3 ('35), DE SOTO, MODEL SG (1935)--OPTL. An early advertisement showing "over drive" 1936- This year is one on to its own it is a 1 piece - Borg Warner T86 1A overdrive transmission 1937 - This is the first year of the Borg Warner R6 transmission It is at this point that Chrysler really started to pump the overdrive in its marketing brochures. Not only was it featured in the Car Brochure but they produced a separate brochure just on the overdrive and its features. Here is an example of the car brochure Here is the rare 1937 Overdrive Brochure 1938 – The Borg Warner R6 transmission - still a top loader, floor shift only - More details to follow here and shortly I will have some pictures of a 1938 Chrysler Transmission to post. Here is a 1938 Chrysler Custom Imperial Brochure - extracts Here is he 1938 Chrysler Royal Imperial Brochure - extracts Here are some pictures of a 1938 overdrive transmission, freshly restored jan 22 2015 by the master -George Asche 1939 – The Borg Warner R6 transmission - "Electric overdrive" & Optional two formats So for 1939 you could have the top load or floor shift and you could have column shift which was done with a cable. 1939 also saw the first use of the solenoid so it would electrically kick it out of overdrive. Prior to that you have to go down to about 2 5-35 mph to get it out of overdrive. Illustration showing the cable used in the Column shift Here are some pictures of a 1939 overdrive transmission. 1940 – The Borg Warner R7 overdrive and Now Only column shift - 1 year only This is also the last year where the gear cluster and 2nd speed gear in the 3 speed transmission gave you a "fast 2nd speed". This was done with a cluster tooth count of - "14.19.25.32" and the 2nd speed gear was a 23 tooth count. After this the cluster was a tooth count of "14.19.23.32" I have a good reference document describing the "WARNER OVERDRIVE "KICK-DOWN1 CONTROL" dated 1940, which I need to try and get uploaded here at some point. 1941 - The Borg Warner R7 overdrive ends as a new car offering It seems very few cars in 1941 had the R7 overdrive in them although I do know that there was a Chrysler Service bulletin that described putting this R7 overdrive transmission in later model cars and I know of at least 1 1942 Plymouth which had an overdrive from the factory in it. Keep in mind Canada entered the 2nd World War in 1939, so civilian cars after 1939 were tough to get until the 1946 model year. This maybe one of the very 1st Plymouths to have an overdrive in it, as everything I have described earlier are Chrysler and Desoto vehicles. 1952 - 1956 - The Borg Warner R10G1 overdrive and the full introduction in the Plymouth line I will add a bunch more to this section over time. As well in the reference section will be pictures of the transmission. 1956 (late) more commonly 1957-1959 the Borg Warner R10J1 overdrive appeared I say late 1956 because I have known seen a Plymouth built on December 10th 1956 that has the R11 overdrive in it right from the Windsor Ontario Canada plant. I will add a bunch more to this R11 section over time. As well in the reference section will be pictures of the transmission. The other overdrives I know described in the article in the reference section below stated that it is 1954 that dodge trucks came out with overdrives and describes other models. Again keep in mind I think we all find new information that allows us to be more intelligent today than we were yesterday and that doesn't mean that at the time that article was written that was the best information available to its author. I do know that in 1952 both Dodge/Fargo trucks were offered with overdrives, as I have a 1952 Fargo 4 ton with a 265 ci motor, factory dual intake and exhaust, a 5 speed transmission, with 5th being overdrive I am also told by a very respected expert/researcher of Chrysler Service bulletins which provided information and part number to retrofit overdrives into cars without original equipped overdrives, which included year prior to 1952. This section will definitely be a work in progress. Chapter 5: Repair, Mix and Match, or Retrofit primer In this chapter I am going to try and go over taking transmissions and overdrives from one year/generation and putting them in earlier or in some case later model cars. I will be looking for help here as I know while we have some great knowledge on the subject there is much more information out there. As well, we will shortly enter into the discussion of putting a more modern overdrive transmission into your old Plymouth and it will not be a T5 conversion. Mopar !!!!! Here is a great resource document that covers the Overhauling of the 1935-39 Overdrives, thanks to Bert Platz, who is one of those guys who Is one of the specialists for the 1935-38 overdrives. The Reference Section: R1) One of the great articles I would like to refer to is one that I have been given Permission from “the living legend” - Jim Benjaminson to use here. Of course if you are not a member of the Plymouth Owners Club here is the place to Do that and catch other cool stuff and articles http://www.plymouthbulletin.com/index.htm http://p15-d24.com/blog/17/entry-87-borg-warner-overdrive-transmission-by-don-frolich/ R2) The Chrysler Master Tech Series - a section of the 1952 films put on you tube. Simply great stuff covering r10g1 overdrives and a few extras I will toss in. Here is the 1952 movie to explain the overdrive to the dealers.. no this is cool ! MTSC - 1952, Volume 5-5 Automotive Overdrive - Operation MTSC - 1952, Volume 5-6 Automotive Overdrive Controls MTSC - 1952, Volume 5-7 Automotive Overdrive Maintenance MTSC - 1952, Volume 5-8 Universal Joints And Propeller Shafts MTSC - 1952, Volume 5-4 Servicing Tips R3) A few early pictures I will attach here a few early pictures, lol and by early I mean early in the development of this blog post. Not early in the overdrives coming from Chrysler. That will come later. Right now, since I have been asked to show a picture of an overdrive I thought I best take this from draft to publish and will just keep updating it. So consider this a work in progress: R4) Reference Pictures 1952-56 Plymouth 3 speed standard with overdrive tranny (R10G1 Borg Warner) Total length of tranny from bell housing to back of brake band is 19 1/2" 1952-56 Plymouth 3 speed standard with overdrive tranny (R10G1 Borg Warner) with input shaft for a fluid drive bell housing 1952 - 1956 Borg Warner R10G1 overdrive attached to a 3 speed standard transmission looking from bottom - again with the input shaft for a fluid drive bell housing * You can adapt the R10G1 overdrive on to the 1953-54 Plymouth Hy-Drive transmission (has a different input shaft) 1957 and newer Borg Warner R10J1 transmission attached to a 3 speed standard transmission Total length of tranny from bell housing to back of brake band is 25" M6 Gyromatic "semi auto" with r7 overdrive (* Note: I need to put up a better year and identification description for this one) Dodge Gyromatic - had "fluid drive" without overdrive (* Note: I need to put up a better year and identification description for this one but believe it was a 1949) * Note: a 1949 Dodge Gyromatic has a external brake band for the hand brake and a 1950 and newer has a brake drum with internal shoes for the hand brake Reference Links: https://www.allpar.com/mopar/transmissions/
  20. 4 points
    3rd part in the series, its for me the Grand Daddy of them all, straight from the Chrysler Engine Factory in Windsor Ontario Canada, factory Dual Carb intake, and factory Dual exhaust which were options on Dodge Trucks. Most believe they were only on 265 ci engines, however that is incorrect. They were available through a factory order on either the 250 or 265 ci motors, and at Dodge truck dealers, they would happily put them on any new truck you wished to put them on. There is a local farmer who had a 1953 Fargo 1 ton pickup truck with a 238 ci motor, the dual carb and intake on it and always said he bought it right from Wellington Motors in Guelph Ontario Canada. After his death, his family found the original bill of sale for the truck and there on the bill of sale from the dealership was listed the Dual Carb and Dual Exhaust option, although it was not given an itemized price. I believe the reason he did that was he had purchased a heavier Fargo truck with a 265 ci motor for hauling livestock the year prior and when he bought the pickup at the dealership he asked for the same setup as he had on his truck. That is a bit of speculation on my part, however I did have the chance to ask him on a couple of occasions why he had the dual carbs and he would just smile and not really give me an answer. For this intake and exhaust I can provide more details as required as the setup is clearly in several Chrysler Manuals that we have, Tim Here are 3 pictures of a Factory 1952 Dodge Truck Dual Carb Intake and Exhaust that came off of a 4 ton Truck with a 265 ci motor Here is the Factory "Chryco" Parts Manual and the page illustrating the explosion view of the Dual Carb Intake and Exhaust Below Some Vintage Speed Advertisement and Articles - 1st up I belief is a page from the 1953 Bell Auto Parts catalog Show a Edmunds finned high compression head for Chrysler, DeSoto, DeSoto and Plymouth....$54 Courtesy of "Old Mopar fan, Don" who can be found over on HAMB http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/members/41-c28.10395/ 1953 Bell Auto Parts Catalog - Front Cover 1953 Bell Auto Parts Catalog - Aftermarket Mopar page 1953 Bell Auto Parts Catalog - Back Cover Courtesy of http://p15-d24.com/user/7710-charleyd/ who scored a copy of the October 1952 Hop Up Magazine, where the article which gives a big thumbs up to the Nicson intake and I will put it up under that intake thread as well as here. Here is the October 1952 Hop Up Magazine on Hopping up the Plymouth with some really positive endorsement of Nicson
  21. 4 points
    Howdy Folks - Well the good news is the new AoK dual carb intakes for the 23 1/2" USA small block flathead Mopars started going out the door last week. As well the AoK triples for the 25 1/2" Canadian Big block flathead Mopars that have been sold out for over a year are also available and shipping. More details and what the look like on this blog entry. The good and bad news.. Good: If your on the list for either a dual intake or a triple your covered. Your intake and if you want linkage, we will be able to supply them at the price point discussed. Bad: well Maybe Bad: If you haven't ordered an AoK dual intake there are 7 left not spoken for and there are 2 AoK triples for the big blocks not spoken for. After that, there will be no more at this price point that is for sure and whether we have any more made with depend on customer demand. As well we are now out of Carter Ball and Ball cores to build, so if you need George to build you up carbs, as of right now you will need to supply cores. Final piece of news is that if you order intakes, when paid for they can be shipped in less than a week. If you need linkage as well its up to 3 weeks lead time right now to ship and if you need carbs and haven't already ordered intakes and specified carbs, even with cores the lead time right now is at least 3 months and may be longer.. The super thing is George who just turned 85 is still doing them and is the best there is at doing them. The unfortunate part is George is slowing down and no one anticipated the new AoK intakes taking so long and the overwhelming demand for them and carbs when they were ready. Now that they are coming out of the machine shop all completed, the shear number is overwhelming so it will take some time .. George also has 4 Performance engine jobs promised and as of today will not be accepting any further engine rebuilds until further notice. On r6, r7 r10 Mopar overdrives, we will have to see what George has time for, and what his Sons and I can help out with on that front to be able to give anyone a leadtime. As I and many call him, the Flathead Mopar Living Legend is still going strong, but his ability to work on customer projects outside of the family, will now be very much slowed down. I am sure that is not a major surprise to anyone . Tim Kingsbury fargopickupking@yahoo,com
  22. 4 points
    I will start this Blog entry off with a cut and paste from an entry I recently posted on the forum. The preamble: I am not a fan of the non-mopar t5 transmission conversion. A great deal of those transmissions have gear splits that were meant for low horsepower, low torque engines and they just do not match up well to a flathead mopar. The are also in my opinion, a great deal of work to make the conversion. There are many models of the T5 transmission, with several having very little overdrive to them. As some have pointed out, when I posted a chart showing a great deal of the T5 transmissions, in at least one case a member who is a huge t5 supporter, editted his post as his transmission was not what he thought it was. That may should like a shot, it isn't meant to be, but what it is really is an illustration that a lot of guys have ventured into the t5 project without realizing what they are in for or what they even have. I do completely understand why so many having went though the conversion process, claim to be happy. They may indeed be, with all the work behind them and in some cases guys are not about to admit that they wished they have never went that route. At least one of those recently posted on the blog here, who was beyond frustrated with the project effort level and the results. Now having said that, there are some t5 with better splits and more overdrive than others, but given the work effort, the cost and the end product it still wouldn't be my first choice. The goal: I wont go into the ramble on why I still prefer the Mopar Overdrive solution, and why for me the 1952-56 R10G Borg Warner overdrive gives you in essence a 6 speed transmission, and concentrate on the pursuit of many. That being a easier to find Overdrive transmission that provides you with a decent level over overdrive, with a decent gear split and for many, the desire to have a floor shift in their car. There is also those with earlier (pre-1939) Mopar's that had a floor shift transmission and would like to keep that original cab look, but want an overdrive and cant find one of the floor shift overdrives from the 30's that came from Chrysler/Desoto. The Solution: A 1975 - 1987 Aluminum A833 4 Speed Transmission with overdrive. Yes, the A833 "bullet proof" transmission is the in essence the same transmission as the "cast iron" version of the 60's that went behind the 426 Hemi. Those transmissions tend to be very pricy and 4th is direct drive 1:1 so since were looking for Overdrive, the older cast iron A833 doesn't fit the bill. Although the 1975- 1987 Aluminum A833 certainly does! The details: Lets start with for the earlier Plymouth we have to deal with the "X" frame so the A833 becomes a great candidate for this application. I would use the Aluminum cased a833's 4 speed with overdrive which started part way into 1975 and went thru until mid 1987. Here is the gear splits: 1st: 3.09:1, 2nd: 1.67:1 3rd: 1:1 4th: 0.73:1 (Trucks used a 0.71:1 fourth) The overdrive configuration with a 23-spline input appeared in these vehicles: o 1975 to 1979 Valiant, Duster, Dart, Scamp, Swinger, Volare, Aspen (3.09:1 ratio first gear) o 1975 to 1987 Dodge light-duty pickups and Dodge and Plymouth Vans (3.09:1 ratio first gear) o 1977 to 1979 Diplomat and LeBaron (3.09:1 ratio first gear) The "Coles note" version of what you will need to do and I will mix in the details concerning the "X-Frame" which only becomes relevant in the models from the 1930's. You will be using the original bell housing, not the one that came from the vehicle that had your donor A833 4 speed and yes ones like the bell housing in the pickups are large and might leave you the impression your on the wrong track. You will need and Adapter plate and screws to mount the transmission up to you stock bell housing. You do not need to make modifications to your bell housing * The Adapter plate kits (Plate and screws) are available from AoK. We do not have A833 transmissions for sale You will need to change your clutch to fine spline and you will need to make an adjustment to the connection of the A833 transmission to the drive shaft. You can change the yoke on your drive shaft so it will connect up to the new transmission or in many cases this may be the opportunity to put in a modern rear end which will allow you to use a modern driveshaft with the A833 and the new rear end. Will talk about that more in a second. ** Note: Sept 2015 we sold the last Adapter plate and our Supplier cranks up the price to the point that we are looking for another supplier. Will update this blog entry when we have more details. Nov 2105 - as covered below, we have got a new supplier and have the adapters and bolts (as a kit) for $125 USD plus shipping. That is the price for the next 25 at least and is priced really based on what the cost of the aluminum stock price is. You do not need to change your pilot bushing as it is the same as original. On 1937 – 39 Plymouth cars (with the X-Frame), you can cut bottom of x frame loop off - (half off) to get the transmission in place. Some think it is fine to leave it with the piece of X-Frame taken out, although it is easily to get it back in place so that would be my preference. The the last one I saw done, they made a bracket to put the x frame loop and then fasten the half of the X-Frame back in. Depending on which A833 transmission you get, you may have to make a minor modification of the bearing retainer. It is the round plate that has 4 bolts holding it on to the tranny.. A couple of the A833's have a longer housing and you need to unbolt it and cut some of the housing off. About an 1” 1/8”, For the 1937 we recently had a hand in, he used a 1966 dodge cornet rt clutch (10 ½”) and pressure plate that he bought from napa (called a clutch pack), however there are lots of great and inexpensive options there. You can change the yoke on the drive shaft to hook up to the A833 or change the rear end. For the 1937 Plymouth project I just mentioned, he put in a 1963-64 Chrysler New York rear end and it fit in perfect. It also had 3” x11” brakes and positraction and a 3:55 rear end ratio which with the a833 gives you 2.59 results as well gave you the emergency brake on the rear axle since you loose the emergency brake drum when you swap out your original transmission. Here is a handy chart on mopar rear ends that may come in handy depending on your application For the 1937 Plymouth which already had a floor shift, the shifter had to be modified slightly so it came up in the original position. Basically the shifter was modified to move it to the right (passenger side) and then up towards the firewall slightly ,to have it come up the original shifter position. Despite the two bends it shifts perfectly. If you are putting the A833 in an early pickup the shifter had to be modified to go towards the passanger 3/4" and then towards the firewall 1 1/2 and it shifts perfectly. In the pickup if your interested, when the snow leaves (about july.. lol) I have to go have a better look at the rear end. I cant remember if the drive shaft was modified to put the modern yoke or if the rear end was changed. I do know the A833 came right out of my Dad's 1982 Dodge pickup. The net in either gives you a floor shift transmission with decent overdrive ratio (0.73:1 or on the Trucks 0.71:1) and decent gear splits! For cars from the 1940s and 50's you don't have to deal with the "x-frame" so the project is even simpler. In terms of the shifter position coming through the floor, you will have a slightly better starting point than other modern floor shift transmissions, and keep in mind you can modify the shift to bend it towards the passenger if you like or towards the firewall. Personally in a 1948 Plymouth business coupe, we made no modification left (towards the passenger side) but bent it forward towards the firewall a bit just because for the driver (6 foot 2 inches) that is just where it felt the best. The point being you have a fair amount of flexibility in where you want the shifter to come up through the floor and then bend it to work best for you. For the 1946-48,Plymouth it seem the US cars may have a slightly different back mount with a cross over member being notched for the standard 3 speed. To then accommodate the lower a833 transmission, I am told you have to notch that cross over frame piece slightly to use the adapter and A833 transmission. For the 1948 Canadian Plymouth we did not have that issue. * Jan 2016 - We have been able to pull stock transmission out of 1946-48, 1949, and 1950 Plymouths made in USA and every one would require modification of the cross member as the A833 4 speed being deeper than the stock transmission is going to hit the cross member.. Also remember that when you swap out your original transmission and move to any modern transmission, you have to consider what your doing for an emergency brake. As I covered above, the change of the rear end to a more modern rear end may solve that problem for you. There other options, 1 such option would be something like - E-Stopp Electric Emergency Brake with Remote Push Button http://www.estopp.com/ Here is the A833 illustration right from Dodge/Chrysler and then a view angles of a rebuilt tranny. ** Dec 22 2015 - Just to be clear, the A833 adapter plate is for Mopar 833 Aluminum 4 speeds for use in Mopar cars, and was not designed for use with the - 1981 -1986 Chevy/GM Truck Overdrive which I believe is a 833/RPO MY6. We were contacted in May by a customer and in the conversation it became apparent he was considering using a GM version of the transmission and he was told there appears to be a great deal of difference between it and the Mopar version of the A833. It appears he has been able to make modifications and get it to work and we will attempt to get a report from him, but up until now we have had zero experience trying to use A833 chevy truck transmissions with this adapter. That doesn't mean that this conversion cant be successful, but it does mean we don't have experience in doing this. There also appears to be interest in an adapter plate for the lighter truck bell housings, which as of now our adapter plate would be viable only for the 1955 and newer 1/2 tons using the column shift 3 speed and utilize the car style bell housing. The floor shift heavier 3 speed and lighter for speed (top bell housing below) and the heavier 4 speed in the 1 ton and lighter 2wd trucks with heavier 4 speeds that utilize the offset bell housing (bottom bell housing below) will not work with our current adapter plate and an a833 mopar 4 speed. Depending on demand we can make adapter plates for either. Let us know if you are interested. Feb 5 2016 - Well mission accomplished. We now have an adapter plate for the both heavy 3 speed floor shift and light 4 speed bell housings and heavier 4 speed bell housings. Bellow is the truck adapter which works for both, then a picture of it with the car and light 3 speed column shift for tucks, and then a picture of the two truck bell housings that the new adapter plate works with. Price is going to be $135 & shipping for the kit. The kit will be the adapter plate and 4 bolts required to mount the adapter plate to the truck bell housing. Bottom line: In the continental United States car adapter plates are $140 shipped and truck adapter platers are $150 shipped. Outside of that area cars are $125 + shipping and trucks are $135 + shipping.
  23. 4 points
    Shirley Muldowney's Mom, Mae Scarborough Roque passed away today, in her 100th year. I had the chance to chat With Mrs Rogue. What a wonderful lady. How proud she was of her "little girl" putting those boys in their place on the track. In her 100th year She had quite a life. Our condolences to Shirley and the entire family Mae Scarborough Roque JANUARY 3, 1918 - JANUARY 9, 2017
  24. 4 points
    In creating this spotters guide for Flathead Plymouth, Dodge, Chrysler, Desoto, Fargo intakes my hope was to show related information, pictures of various intakes, and attach any technical information and perhaps vintage ads for them. I am starting it here in hopes of putting something together with the help of many members and then maybe move it to the technical archives. . Why do it here ? Only because I or someone can edit and compile. #2 Nicson Engineering Nicson Engineering was we believe the very 1st aftermarket maker of dual carb intakes for the Plymouth and Dodge 23 1/2" motors. The 1st generation with several markings including the "Volumetric", and "Plymouth Dodge Cars" as well as "Plymouth dual Dodge" was for the earlier smaller 2 bolt Carter ball and ball carbs. The one pictured below was never mounted on an engine and was the only one I have ever seen. Here is that Nicson intake, now cleaned up, mounted with 1938 Plymouth carbs, nice new stainless linkeage all done by George Asche - AoK racing and heading out to be a new piece of jewelry for a 1938 p6 Plymouth ! The 2nd generation intake Nicson made was for the Chrysler, Desoto and Dodge truck 25 1/2" block as well as and intake for the "Super Big Block" engines up to and including the 377 and 413 ci engine. The 3rd generation intake was for the for the Plymouth and Dodge 23 1/2" motors taking the bigger Carter ball and ball carbs. Next the picture of a Tattersfield and a Nicson dual carb Plymouth and Dodge (23 1/2" flathead) I have also seen a Nicson triple made as a "Chrysler Special" for the 25 1/2" block engines, but never took a picture of it. That was back in the early 70's, well before the camera on every cell phone era and have not seen one since. Courtesy of http://p15-d24.com/user/7710-charleyd/ who scored a copy of the October 1952 Hop Up Magazine, where the article which gives a big thumbs up to the Nicson intake and I will put it up under that intake thread as well as here. Here is the October 1952 Hop Up Magazine on Hopping up the Plymouth with some really positive endorsement of Nicson #2 The Coolest Funky looking intake - Tattersfield Power Equipment This intake came only in small block form for the Plymouth and Dodge (23 1.2" flathead) It came in 2 different generations. The 1st pictured with the Nicson intake and the 2nd generation pictured with carbs on it. Notice the linkage tabs on the 2nd generation intake. Courtesy of : http://p15-d24.com/user/7408-hellyeah/ A later Tattersfield intake / exhaust combo with linkage. Note the intake has linkage tabs like Edmunds did on his later dual intake manifolds. As well a picture of a Tatterfield Aluminum head - all for the Plymouth and Dodge (23 1/2" flathead)& a letter from Tattersfield on their performance equipment then Courtesy of: http://p15-d24.com/user/5770-61farnham/ The Tattersfield instruction page with linkage illustration and picture of the Tattersfield intake with carb on it
  25. 4 points
    timkingsbury

    Happy New Years

    Happy New Years ! Well on behalf of all the AoK boys, we wish you a Happy New Years ! In the last few weeks, after being nudged by a couple of members, we started to blog. I figured we would give it a month and see if I got a few followers interested in the ramblings of a group of Mopar Nuts ! We have been sincerely humbled by the responses so far. While I cant guarantee I will have the time to post as regularly throughout 2015 as I have the last month, I will try and make sure a month doesn’t go by without some new post as long as you folks are interested ! If you have suggestions for topics, want us to go down some path or another, please don’t be afraid to make suggestions. For me this blog idea was all about giving those interested in a peak into the world of the AoK boys. Without readers, and your interest, this blog will just dry up and turn to dust. So what I am saying, is you folks and your feedback, comments, suggestions and ideas are the key to the success of the blog and my interest in doing it for you. Thanks again and hope you have an absolute awesome 2015 ! Signed Tim Kingsbury – on behalf of George Jr, Rob, George III, Eric and Evan Asche - the Southern Mopar Nuts, & Dan Kingsbury and myself, the Northern Mopar Nuts, who combined are.. The AoK boys !
  26. 3 points
    Well The Monster Lives... again.. As I hinted in past blog entries I knew and know where the legendary Plymouth Motorcycle is. I was in touch with its owner Louie Fisher a few years ago after he had acquired the motorcycle along with a buddy from the Dean Hensley estate back in 1992. They had actually taken it to a couple of antique motorcycle meets in the early 90s and eventually took the big plunge to restore it. Recently they have taken the project from a basket case with no viable drivetrain, to the point where I can say - "The Monster Lives Again!" I was excited to see the Legendary Plymouth Reporter - Jim Benjaminson with an updated article on AllPar and with it some pretty current pictures. Here is the link to the article: Enjoy! http://www.allpar.com/history/plymouth/motorcycle.html If you hadn't read my earlier blog entries on the Worlds Fastest Flathead Motorcycle, here is the link to the 1st parts of the series: Part 1: http://p15-d24.com/blog/17/entry-65-as-promised-the-story-of-the-worlds-fastest-flathead…-motorcycle-part-1/ Part 2: http://p15-d24.com/blog/17/entry-66-as-promised-the-story-of-the-worlds-fastest-flathead…-motorcycle-part-2/ Part 3: http://p15-d24.com/blog/17/entry-67-as-promised-the-story-of-the-worlds-fastest-flathead…-motorcycle-part-3/
  27. 3 points
    Howdy Folks - I thought I would do an update on a few topics. 1st the most important one being my buddy George Asche Jr. George who was hospitalized a few months ago continues to be regaining his health at a rate I think everyone including he himself find remarkable. I was down last week and helped him build another engine and a bunch of other thing. He continues to work through a long list of promised work, from engines and over drives, to intake, carbs and linkage. The last AoK racing triple intake for the big blocks was finished and shipped out. It is going on a 1937 Chrysler 6 cylinder. A very close to stock engine, with standard pistons, cam and new undersized bearings. I have enclose a picture of that as well as George finishing off a fresh engine built and one of the AoK - George Asche Jr tribute intakes for the USA Small blocks. We down to just 1 or 2 of those . Next topic, intake updates: As I have talked earlier, with our good friend Tom ceasing operations we had to move the casting of both the Triples for the Canadian 25 1/2" big block flathead and the USA 23 1/2" dual carb intakes. We also sadly lost the services of George long time friend Bob Stover who was responsible for the machining of the AoK triples from when we 1st started to make them over a decade ago until God gave him the checkered flag and he passed away. Moving to a new supplier also saw cost increases. We have worked closely with both suppliers as well as looked at other options for having them cast and machined elsewhere. In the end, we were able to reduce the overall costs, and get the minimum order quantity down to the point that we are going to consider another run of intakes. The cost of the new AoK triple intakes (for the 25 1/2" big block made in Canada) is going to go up approximately 6% and will be $525.00 plus shipping. Linkage will range depending upon what is required, but the standard 3 carb linkage with linkage that can be hooked up to linkage coming across the head will be $195.00. Carbs, are going to be a problem for us to supply rebuilt carbs. If you have cores and need them rebuilt we may be able to help. But intake and linkage we should have later this summer On the AoK - George Asche Jr limited edition dual carb intake for the 23 1/2" USA small block they too will be just under a 6% increase and will be $450.00 plus shipping. If your already on the waiting list and we have intakes set aside for you, your originally quoted price remains in effect for the intake. If your interested in either, drop us a note and we will get you on our waiting list and/or be happy to discuss your project(s). Thanks Tim Kingsbury and George Asche Jr fargopickupking@yahoo.com Below pictures are the AoK dual and triple intake that are being set up for the pre-WW2 cars ad all trucks, pickups and powerwagons which have linkage going down the intake/exhaust side of the blocks
  28. 3 points
    Well folks its back from the machine shop and for the last prototype before production it is awesome! Here are a couple of pictures.. The intake is designed to be able to accommodate a linkage bar on the inside or outside of the intake, as well as a casted section for truck usage, which will double as a spot for a serial number. We will try and early this week get an eta on getting the 1st batch, as well as George will make up a set of linkage and we will try and get a shipping price for anywhere in the USA. Shipping to other locations we will have to get the shipping estimate on a case by case basis. But the intake is $425, that is machined and ready to bolt on & $150 - $200 if you want our stainless linkage + shipping. So linkage will require you to reuse part of your linkage setup. Primarily trucks and pre WW2 vehicles. Its been a long time coming folks, but it is ever so close ! Thanks for everyone's interest and patience! Tim
  29. 3 points
    This was my Dad's original 1938 Desoto - Plymouth Approved Service Dealer Sign. My Grandfather had a later Desoto- Plymouth sign and a Chrysler - Fargo Trucks sign hanging on the outside of his shop, which he built after he retired from Chrysler Corporation. It was a 42" sign and of course Dad always admired it. When Grandfather passed away the signs were sold at auction and the pair sold for $18,500 and after their sale Dad almost immediately started looking for one. Years later on his first trip to our friend George Asche's he smiled when he saw George had one hanging on his garage. I took a picture of the pair of them in front of the garage and it became one of Dad and George's favourite pictures. The meeting of the Northern and Southern Flathead Mopar minds. In any case, it would be about a decade later when Dad would finally see one come up for auction and of course it wound up costing more than did the one that sold at Grandfathers Auction. During the lead up to the auction it came to light that dealer sign was an original 1938 sign and as we checked out the sign measured it, and then compared it to the one that sold at Grandfathers sale, there was indeed a slight difference in size. Grandfathers was 42" and this one was 45". Grandfathers, well it had made its way back to Chrysler and was on display at the Walter Chrysler Museum. Given its age, it was in remarkable conditions when found (see picture of the pre-restoration sign) but after speaking to George who wished he had restored the enamel instead of painting its spots missing enamel, and speaking to the Curator at the Walter Chrysler museum it was decided to have it restored by the best we could find. It underwent a world class restoration on the few areas that needed attention, by the leading enamel sign restoration company, Don Van Kannel - Van Kannel Sign Restoration and it is in absolutely spectacular condition. Sadly its restoration would take a number of years, and Dad would pass away without ever seeing it finished. The family has wrestled with keeping it, or selling it. It had been appraised at $10,000 prior to it being restored and with the restoration cost, the imminent sale of Mom and Dad's place it really didn't make sense to keep it. So we put it up for sale and also consigned it to a large automotive memorabilia auction. We got a few people express interest, and a couple of trade offers, but nothing serious, so off it went to the automotive memorabilia auction with no reserve but a guarantee for the auction company on the minimum sale price. As our luck has seem to have gone lately, the sign appeared to sell at the auction for well above the guarantee the auction company had provided us. But a couple of days after the auction we were told that the buyer had failed complete the sale. Grrrrrrr, what else can you say. So the Sign today will go back up for sale, on Ebay and locally. Here is the listing - http://www.ebay.com/itm/252734854732?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649 We have put it up for sale at way less that we have in the sign, but it needs a new home and we would really like to see it go to a new home. The asking price is $7500 and that is pretty close to a firm number. We might consider a trade for something, but it will need to be something one of the family wants, and then they will put the cash into the estate. If you have any questions feel free to drop me a note at fargopickupking@yahoo.com Thanks for your time Tim Kingsbury
  30. 3 points
    Well my convertible is sitting on the side lines for a bit. A new addition has been added to our driveway. ITS A GIRL! 1960 Ford Thunderbird. When my husband was young the carcass of a car arrived at his family home. Over the next few years he played in it with his older sister, kid stuff. Later his Dad started rebuilding the car and he was part of it. The car was finished after a few years and the family drove it. When my husband was 16 the car was sold, for unknown reasons to him at the time, teenage stuff. The sale broke his heart and he was angry. In 2002 he decided to start searching for the car. Unfortunately, with no success but has been searching ever since. One week ago today he received a call that there was a possible sighting of this beloved car in Durango! Thinking nothing of it he decided to go check it out anyway. Upon arrival he saw the car and still wasn't certain. He called me to come help check it out. The confirmation on the identity of this car was laying in the locked trunk, he said. We found he keys and unlocked the trunk. When the lid was lifted and I was sure my husband was going to his knees. To our surprise, there was an outline of a Thunderbird emblem made by his dad out of thumbtacks so many years ago. After over a decade of searching the 1960 Ford Thunderbird is back in the family, forever. There is a lot more to the story but I don't want to bore anyone. Please ask questions if you have any ;-)
  31. 3 points
    Its part 4 over time. Lol.. some pictures of the engine bay, the fuel block you will see on the fire wall as custom made by Dashman's Hot Rod and Speed Parts. They make super cool stuff.. You can get an idea on their ebay account (items for sale) or check out their website or give them a call. http://www.ebay.com/usr/68rrman http://www.dashman.net/ Oh yes, they are the supplier of the fuel distribution block and other cool stuff on the Worlds Fastest Dinasour ! Also pics of the beautiful restored hubcaps by hubcap.com , the alternator Rob built and the waterpump view of the dual pulley system
  32. 3 points
    Ellis - Made intakes for Chrysler Corporation for the Dodge 331, 377 and 413 ci "super big" block truck engine. They also made aftermarket intakes for both the USA small block and the Canadian big block 6 cylinder engines. This intake is believed to be off a feb 1950 built 377 ci engine which was 4" bore and 5" stroke producing 154 hp at 3000rpm and 330 lbs of torque, 7 main bearing crank. Here is an Ellis intake courtesy of http://p15-d24.com/user/296-ralph-d25cpe/ A nice example of the Canadian 25 1/2" big block - marked "Ellis Dual Power Manifolds" on the side and "Dodge" "2 ton" "1 1/2 ton" on the intake runners Here is another nice example of the Canadian 25 1/2" Big Block - " Dual-Power" intake with Carbs Photo's courtesy of http://p15-d24.com/user/4694-scotia-steve/ Attached is a picture of an Ellis dual crab intake for a 23 1/2" USA small block Advertisement and Instruction sheets: also to follow. I think I have some filed somewhere. Thickson - I believe I have seen 3 different Thickson intakes over the years. This was the one I had a picture of. If you look close there are tabs for the linkage on the intake of this example. It looks like a Tattersfield influenced intake and I do not know who made which 1st although given it is the later Tattersfield that had the linkage tabs, I am thinking the Thickson came after the Tattersfield, but that is just a guess. So this one is a work in progress. McGurk - More known for Chev intakes, however they did make them for the USA small blocks I am told. So this one is a work in progress. * Note: this is the 5th installment on intakes and the 6th with be on Sharp. After that I can't help thinking there may be others I am not thinking of. So if you have any more examples instruction sheets, advertisement, let me know and I will continue the series. As mentioned in the 1st installment my hope is to gather up the information and instruction sheets, maybe any technical stuff that came with them, examples of linkage etc so that eventually it can be moved to the forums technical information section.
  33. 3 points
    Thanks for all the awesome responses I have received from members with pictures of intakes, brochures and information as I keep putting together spotters guides on intakes and overdrives. I love the shout outs and stories behind your cars. They are great and should be up on the reference area as testimony to life lessons, great people and the stories behind their cars. From my super sleuth http://p15-d24.com/user/5770-61farnham/ from the other side of the Pond in England To Bob http://p15-d24.com/user/22-bobt-47p15/ from Missouri with incredible cars the challenge thrown at his family by mother nature and their perseverance. Id love to see all of his items I have seen up in a blog entry. To http://p15-d24.com/user/107-fargos-go-far/ for his help with intake pics, and his "Shout out to the AoK team" video that I couldn't resist putting up on youtube. or Ice Road Truckin... in a 55 Fargo pickup truck with a 251 flathead 6 Cruising on a cold snowy day in the Interlake District Of Manitoba Canada. and last but definitely not least.. http://p15-d24.com/user/7710-charleyd/ scored a copy of the October 1952 Hop Up Magazine article which gives a big thumbs up to the Nicson intake and I will put it up under that intake thread as well as here. Keep them coming folks.. If you have pictures with intakes, maybe car brochures that show overdrives (Mopar of any division), overdrive information, corrections to what I have in the blogs, whatever. Oh and if you have a posts somewhere on the forums from years past I should check out or want to share about your car, projects etc, please keep them coming. I'm definitely Lov'n them and I don't care if your guessing, or speculating on hp or how things work, if it is framed as your best guess, I am ok with that. The goal remains the same. To overtime put together some resource documents that others can look over and get information without some massive trolling of the internet, books, and resource places. Aka your one stop shop at the p15-d24 site. Tim and the rest of the AoK boys.
  34. 3 points
    Part 4 – The Plymouth gets trailered to AoK headquarters and is parked beside the “World’s Fastest Dinasour” & “Calling In Favors” Well the Plymouth wasn’t home long and pictures were shared with my friends and the ideas and discussion of what the plans were for her. In what I will call the round table discussion with George and Rob Asche we kicked around the idea of building a race engine that would still be streetable. We had just finished off the Velociraptor or the Worlds Fastest Dinosaur engine, and well we did have some spare parts.... tee hee When we were in the design of the dragster project, Dad had called in some favors from some of his drag racing friends and colleagues and we were able to get several sets of Venolia Forged top fuel pistons made, complete with HardTuf coating on them. Those and sets of custom Plasma Moly Gapless rings actually cost more than the 1949 Plymouth was new ! Actually a lot more come to think of it ! So with the pistons and rings at up to .125 over bore and a 1952 Dodge 265 Truck Engine, the start of the project was in hand. I loaded up the Plymouth in my enclosed car trailer, and headed south/east to AoK Headquarters, where the Plymouth was tucked into bed beside the Rear Engine Dragster. George and Rob pulled down the truck engine and the legendary and in my opinion the best Flathead Mopar Engine builder alive started the build process. Here are some of the highlights. The engine after hot tanked and checked for cracks and defect, was decked with about .20 removed from it. The block was bored and new custom valve seats and valves installed. The crank quick was perfectly balanced from Chrysler back in the day, was prepared with a few racing tricks, and nos 265 rods were balanced to the gram. Clevite 77 Bearings were secured, as was a brand new brass water tube. Not that the water tube being brass had a lot of a performance impact, but it was a rare part that had long ago been set aside for a special project. I will also attach a picture of the oil pump beside am OEM stock oil pump. It has been built, and I say built because it was NOS when we tore it apart and made a few mods to it ! Its all about getting some oil flow to an engine which we expect will touch north of 6,000 rpm ! A 1956 dodge 265 truck head was prepared, shaved .80, and modifications made to cc the head to 70cc’s. In the end the engine is about 10.5 to 1 compression ratio. A new custom cam with 435 lift was prepared for the project. This of course is a lot less lift and a lot less compression than is in the rear engine dragster but it isn't exactly streetable ! When the engine was in the discussion phase I really wanted to have a George Asche custom made triple from a stock intake used. That was really for sentimental purposes, but I got over-ruled, lol and of course an AoK triple carb intake was used for the project. George prepared 3 carter ball and ball carbs – model E9K1 which were original equipment for the 1956 Dodge 4 ton truck with factory dual carbs as stock equipment. These carbs are stock 1 11/16” throttle bore and 1 11/32 Venturis. Interestingly it was this throttle bore and venturi size that Lee Petty used in his 1949 Plymouth. Mind you he used 1 and well, we have 3 for this engine ! When finished these fully matched carbs sported over sized Grose Jets. Sadly Ansel Grose of Stoneham, Middlesex, Massachusetts who made the worlds best carb jets is no longer with is, and so far it does not look like anyone has taken over the business. Too bad, because his jets were unreal and the Kingsbury and Asche stashes of them is definitely pretty limited. While George and my brothers (Rob and George III) were busy on the engine, I was on the prowl to try and put together the ability to put air-conditioning on the car. We found a dual belt pulley from a past project and using 6061T6 aircraft gear grade aluminum had dual belt pulleys made for both the crankshaft and water pump pulleys. Now I am sure your now thinking, air conditioning, how are you doing that with 6 volts.. Well the truth is for a number of reasons, we decided to change to a 12 volt system. Brighter lights, a better wiper system etc etc. Which of course brings up one of my many Christmas presents from George. Lol.. Hidden away from plain sight would be an upgrade from a vacuum wiper system, from a late 1940’s Chrysler George completely rebuilt an electric wiper system for the car. By now I am sure you can see this “build a high performance flathead” project got a little wider scope. “Brother Rob” would specially build the high amp 12 volt alternator for the project. Something he and George III do regularly as they have for the last decade or so taken over the Family Business – Asche Mechanic and Asche Mechanical Distributors. If you want some starter, generator or automotive electrical component rebuilt, they are definitely the boys for the job. Some time I will do a blog entry on their diamond in the rough business. I believe “Brother George” actually built the starter for the car for the project. I will attach a few pictures of the engine as it was built, and may have to put up a few other parts just to get the pictures up. I think we were about the fall of 2013 when the engine was complete and was set aside, actually I believe right beside the dragster, as if it was a spare engine. Somewhere along the way I acquired a 1953 Chrysler Windsor with a 265 ci motor, and while it wasn’t the motor we wanted for this project it did yield some donor parts. The rear end gear set or Pumpkin, which was a 3:54 ratio was a far more “highway friendly” set of gears than what came with the Plymouth. As well Chrysler’s being a much heavier car had bigger brakes, so the thought of much more power and speed, naturally shifted into the need to upgrade the brakes. So the Plymouth brake system was converted to Chrysler 12” brakes and that also required different rims to handle the bigger drums. Again George and Rob would be the master behind the project and restored all of the parts, as well as brass sleeved the master cylinder (poor man power brakes) . While that was taking place, down in George’s work shop a specially prepared 1952-56 Borg Warner R10 over drive was prepared. The top secret 1940 cluster and 2nd speed gear set was used for the project. I call it top secret because it’s a not widely known fact that the 1940 only gears give you a much faster 2nd gear. It was a trick used by one Lee Petty back in 1949 and does indeed make a huge difference. The r10 can be set up as 6 or 12 volt, this one obviously being 12 volt. Shortly after the piece of art, that would be the overdrive was completed it was coupled up to the engine. But not before we pulled out another mopar secret; that being the pressure plate and clutch setup of a 1956 plymouth and went to Fort Wayne Clutch for the project. Now AoK doesn’t do anything 1 off very often, so a dozen of these special heavier spring clutch and pressure plate system were made and the 1st of which was put into the plymouth, along with another secret, a custom modified flywheel which provides the perfect balance for a high performance engine. The Plymouth's new heart was put in, and you can see the engine here on Youtube as it was fired up. While everyone wanted me to do the honors, I couldn’t take that smile away from Rob and you can see him fire it up as George smiles in he back ground and of course I am running the video. The picture of her shortly after rolling out of the garage, still had the hood off and looking like it was ready to go to the drag strip. The rims were all prep’s and powder coated red as was a number of pretty famous Mopar Stock cars in the 50’s. Thanks to Lorenzo Martinez of Hubcaps.com they restored a set of 1949 full hubcaps to NOS condition. I cant say enough of their work, it was absolutely unreal The steering wheel which had cracked over time needed attention, and here is another AoK secret. . Koch’s steering wheel restoration took car of the restoration of the steering wheel and it came back better than NOS ! http://www.kochssteeringwheels.com/productcart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idcategory=3&idproduct=4 Another neat part that obviously didn’t come with the zero-optioned car was its clock. In one of those urban myth stories my Dad had been following up a lead about a 1949 Plymouth that was specially built for the man who would be the Canadian Prime Minister John Diefenbaker. Well 2 years ago, one of Dad’s friends called me from Saskatoon Saskatchewan, where Diefenbaker is buried and told me that he had located the 1949 Plymouth my Dad was looking for. It was located near Neustadt, Ontario which ironically is where Diefenbaker was born. Neustadt is super close to where I live so out I went to check it out. It is in the heart of a German Mennonite and the black 1949 Plymouth was living behind a barn of an Mennonite family who make old style wooden windows. They have no electricity in their house or telephone and have an old d21 Allis Chalmers tractor with the wheels off sitting on blocks, running a big generator to run the power for the window plant. When I inquired about the car, the owner said to me that it was John Diefenbaker’s 1st wife’s and he had actually tried to give it to a couple of museums over the years. Sadly the car had the front suspension rusted out, the engine seized. Now you would think with such a story, and little proof in hand of the story that the price of the car would be out of sight. No sir. The price was pegged at what the car weighed and the price of scrap ! So home came the 1949 Plymouth, and while many I am sure are rolling in their graves, the 1949 clock was pulled from the car, gone over and will find its way into my Aunt Thelma’s Plymouth. Aunt Thelma was a big Diefenbaker fan and I thought it was a fitting and appropriate upgrade for the old girl. The car with temporary dual exhaust on it was taken out for a couple of test runs. OMG talk about a car that can smoke tires. I think that is where the project sits at the moment . Still to come is a brand new end to end stainless steel dual exhaust system with a pair of specially made polished stainless steel mufflers courtesy of another friend. As well, while the car has few miles , never saw winter and I doubt it saw rain very often, a lot of the chrome was done over pot metal on those cars and so a great deal of the pieces need to be replace or rechromed. The pursuit of air-conditioning is still ongoing with that challenge right now being I can’t find a small enough unit to fit under the dash… grrrr.. As well Rob in looking really close at the wiring, a lot of it is old and brittle, so he is busy rewiring the car in a lot of places. I call it a labor of love that you couldn’t even ask your Brother to do, but he is a man on a mission ! In the future, I may freshen up the interior and touch up things here and there. As things progress or change I will try and update the blog, and who knows we may test it out to see if it is faster than the average Echo ! lol
  35. 3 points
    Well as the year is coming to a quick end, a shout out to a great guy and fellow Mopar Nut! I am not 100% sure what year it was, but sometime after the earth cooled, my Dad, George Asche and I were hanging out at Chrysler Carlisle (or I guess All Chrysler Nationals) when I 1st met Mike. I think we hit it off immediately and as my Dad said, that guy has that same twinkle in his eye as you do.. Full Throttle Trouble ! Over the years we would see Mike and his buddies, and somewhere a few years ago as we were building the AoK triple Mike commissioned George to build a high end, bore out 265 big block with an AoK triple on it, for the sole purpose of burning tires ! When we purchased the our AoK dragster, I remember bringing the attached picture to Chrysler Carlisle to show a number of people, including Mike. The picture is as it left the dragsters previous owner. He had bought it from Bartone Racing, sold off the big Top Fuel Hemi, took off the wing and tried to run in a class with a big block chevy. He was never successful. In any case, Mike had one look at the picture and it was "holy crap" and his eyes lite up like a Christmas Tree. I know Mike has been around drag strips for a long time, but I like to think between the Mopar only Drag races on the super old track associated with Chrysler Carlisle and maybe the Worlds Fastest Dinosaur, Mike got inspired to switch his drag racing from cars to dragsters. Now, that may be for many,be out of the frying pan and into the fire but the more I get to know Mike, the more I realize he isnt afraid to take on the impossible or the projects that have a lot of other saying -"why bother".. A few years ago Mike had brought his 1951 Dodge Business Coupe to Chrysler Carlisle. We had heard him talk about it, and the cool part is just how much of it he did. It wasnt a farm the whole thing out project. I remember like it was yesterday, over went George, my Dad Eddy, George's son Rob, his Son and myself for super by the grand stand, and then over to the show field we went to have a look at Mike's car. We walked up and I think my 1st words were likely like his when he saw the dragster... "holy crap". lol What I saw was absolutely the nicest Dodge coupe I have ever seen. The workmanship, the paint, and the interior was just jaw dropping. It was the kind of thing you see on $100,000+ resto-mods that someone plows a modern hemi in it etc. But what he had done was keep true to the drivetrain that came with it, and his custom changes were things that the Dodge Brothers would have given 2 thumbs up. Next when Dad and George gave it a good look over and gave it 2 thumbs up, you know Mike had built a show winner in the eyes of the Asche's and Kingsbury's.. Over time, and as Mike started other projects I had to ask, "So Mike what will it take to buy her!" Well, it was clear, it just wasn’t for sale, and you know what, I understand and respect that. As time past, I found not the original car that my Dad had, but a 1941 Plymouth that was very close to his 1st car. Rob Asche and I had driven 3 days in my race car.. well that is another story for another time.. and purchased the 1941 Plymouth. As we were coming back, having just left a huge pile of US $100 bills for the 1941 Business Coupe I remember sending a note to a few guys, Mike being one. Later on I would find out, that had I asked the day I bought my 41, I could have pried the 51 Dodge out of Mike's arms. After a big run of car shows, with Mike finding winning as a regular occurrence I think other projects that cost $$ and a lack of using and enjoying the Dodge made it available. Unfortunately I just wasn’t in a position to buy both. I have to tell you I thought about it, and I thought about selling the 41 Plymouth to buy the 51 Dodge, but in the end I couldn’t pull the trigger. Over the last year, for other reasons there just is no chance I can swing the 51 Dodge business coupe still, so when someone posted on the forum looking for a very similar car, I thought, well maybe it’s a sign, I can give Mike a hand. So today as we end 2014 Mike has moved from sort of putting the 1951 business coupe for sale, to it is definitely for sale, to the right home. And believe me , the right home is the real story. Mike asked me yesterday what I thought he should ask. I gave him a number and to be honest I was a little surprised to see him listing it well below the number I suggested. The other super news, is in the process, and with some help of his kids I think, is Mike has signed up and is on the P15-D24 site. That to me is the big win win as this guy is an absolute diehard Mopar Nut. Oh.. also below his "brand new slingshot" dragster. Finished to the point he has fired it down the track, been successful and is already spending the off season making more changes. So yes, Mike is way faster than us AoK boy to get to the track... but hey, at least brother Rob (Rob Asche) took the dragster for a spin. Attached is the picture of him in the car, and yes, he literally drove it out of the garage and lite it up on Main Street Fertigs ! And who knows, maybe the AoK dinosaur may have to square off against the Meier-Mania (my words) dragster ! of course he has 8 cylinders and we only have 6 so he should give us a 25% head start.. lol.. 25% more cylinders, sounds fair doesn’t it ? rofl.. Well again, a huge Shout Out To Mike.. and while I am sad in some way to see his car listed... http://p15-d24.com/classifieds/item/806-relunctant-sale-1951-dodge-wayfarer-business-coupe/ Well maybe I can kidnap him sometime and redo the paint of my baby, the 1949 Plymouth Business Coupe.. To be honest while I can find tons of guys with way more experience, I cant think of anyone I would rather have. Just think in his 1951 Dodge, you get "ground zero" which was the labor of love for hundreds and hundreds, if not thousands of hours !
  36. 2 points
    Okay, here we have it, the no nonsense "Mopar For Mopars" solutions blog. This is a blog where any or all Mopar solutions can be entered, added, discussed and debated. I am not limiting this to the Chrysler flathead 6 engine, so other Mopar Engines, Drive lines, Transmissions, Ignitiion, Electrical and Suspension, Steering and Brakes. So please share what and how you have done something, utilizing Ma Mopar components and Parts. If you are contemplating some modification however radical post your progress and results. Off topic brands and posts will be deleted, so keep this Mopar as the title suggests. There has been a lot of discussion, Thread Themes, and Ideas that are not Mopar based, so here we have the Topic that focuses on a Chryco answer for our needs.
  37. 2 points
    All of these intakes are still being manufactured or substantial amounts of new product still exists. Offenhauser - still made, available at many suppliers, even the big chains like Summit Racing, and they also sell "connection kits" with linkage. These dual carb intakes are for the 201, 217 and 230 USA small block engines. http://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/ofy-2691/applications Fenton - still readily available although I did not see them on the big chains. These dual carb intakes are for the 201, 217 and 230 USA small block engines and a couple of new ones I saw for sale had linkage, and instruction sheets included. Courtesy of: http://p15-d24.com/u...5770-61farnham/ A Fenton intake pictured with a home made dual exhaust manifold A Fenton Aluminum Head Fenton Head Details as well as Fenton Header Instruction Pages I will apologize right now as I had these along with a bunch of stuff sent to me and I have lost the note as to whom they came from. please drop me a note so I can edit in the credit for the find ! Tim * Fenton Patterns were sold in a Bankruptcy auction to Al Sharp, so see part 6 which is the Sharp Blog Piece Edgy Speed Shop http://www.edgyspeedshop.com/products.html Dual carb intake for Dodge/Plymouth 201,218 & 230 USA small block engines. His casting mounts two, 3 bolt carburetor's such as Stromberg 97's. He also makes Heads for the small and big block and I will attach a picture in passing. Adapter can be found on ebay to change the two barrel mounts to Carter Ball and Ball carbs as well. Earl makes his Cast Finned Aluminum cylinder head for both small blocks (Plymouth/Dodge 23 1/2") and big blocks - Canadian 25 1/2" engines * If you have the instruction sheets for anyone these let me know and I will be happy to post them.
  38. 2 points
    We hear from people regularly who want another opinion on something, or feel the general forum doesn't fit their needs because they want to ask - where can I buy ???? Or is "$x" to much for this or that. This is not a replacement for the buy and sell section of the forum, and for what it costs it is hugely under utilized. But if you maybe need a picture of a part you want to use to put up on that section asking to buy one, maybe we or a member can help you with it. Post away and we will see if we can get you some help. We maybe delete and restart this thread if it goes stale, but will try and provide folks a fair amount of rope. Tim
  39. 2 points
    As an owner of a B1 truck with an original 4 speed crash box (aka non syncro tranny with compound low) one story you hear is you can shift without using the clutch. Having learned to double clutch to avoid the "grind them till you find them" syndrome of shifting I have to say I was always intrigued by the myth of clutchless shifting. For our owners who always lived in the world of fully synchronized transmissions, double clutching is the technique used to shift a transmissions with "straight cut gears' or no synchronizers. Internally the transmission is pretty simple and very reliable in service. To double clutch you use the clutch normally to get rolling and when you are ready to to shift your depress and release the clutch once to take it out one gear and a second time to go into another the next gear. The process basically slows down the shift so the gear speeds match and allow them to slide into the next gear. Downshifting is similar except you have to remember to bring up the engine revs as you go into the lower gear. But what about clutchless shifts? Well, as professional OTR drivers know it is not a myth but a useful technique to drive your truck with less wear and tear on the clutch. Success is all about getting the engine speed right and feeling the gears as you slide them in the gearbox. Again use the clutch normally to get rolling. As you near the shift point lift off the gas slightly and slide the shifter into the gate for the next gear. As the speeds match the shift will smoothly drop into the next gear with no grinding and no clutch needed! Don't be frustrated if the first few times you miss and grind the gears. With a little practice you will be able to tell with engine speed and feeling it in the shift lever when it is time to shift. Downshifting is also possible but requires a little more finesse with engine speed and shift lever. Remember since your are going down in gears you need to raise engine rpm to match the the gear when you downshift. So instead of a slight lift off on the throttle you need to give it a little bump up. Again with the gear speed and engine speed match you can fell it in the gearshift lever as it will easily slide into gear without a grind. And what about the compound low (AKA, granny gear)? It's function is to help you get moving when you have a big load on board. A while back I had half a yard of sand loaded in the bed. When I started to pull out of the loading area in first it was immediately evident I would have to slip the clutch quite a bit to get rolling. Dropping into compound low we just pulled out like a normal start, just slower. Once we got past the the initial start up resistance from a dead stop it was easy to drive. Have any of you mastered the art of clutchless shifts?
  40. 2 points
    In this chapter: Its locked down, who knows and who cares how much HP it has, its time to take this puppy to Toronto International Dragway ! Lol.. the NHRA 1/4 mile track, not the now Toronto International Airport ! What had started off as a young guys spotting a dream car in a junk yard, had really become the ultimate family project in my family . Really made possible by my Dad, and both Grandfathers playing significant roles, as did a great deal of the family. I fully realize without the support of my Mom and Grandmothers in the background, the project would have long ago ground to a halt! By its initial completion I think all of my relatives were aware of the project and many had contributed. I likely also used up all my birthday and Christmas presents for a decade along the way. Heck even my 1st cousin got involved. She and her friend came over washed and waxed the car without my knowing. They had just left a note with a smiley face on it and a note "Finally clean and ready to roll! Don't forget to take your favourite cousin for a ride.. hint hint!" My Dad had spent what I thought was a lot of time "tuning the elephant" as he would say. I am to this day still suspicious he was just delaying the launch date until he had a day off. One Saturday morning which was really only a couple of weeks after the interior had been put in, Dad said to me - "want to go for breakfast with grand-dad. I said sure. I walk out got in his pickup and he yells as he is coming out of the house, to move the truck out to the road. I remember like it was yesterday thinking what does he want to do that for. I moved it out and came back to the house as he had went back in the house. We had a garage that was integrated into the house and had bedrooms over top of it. Usually Mom's car was in one side and there was "stuff in the other bay" What I didn't realize is Dad had brought up the Challenger and parked it in the garage. It seems everyone else in the village did. Dad heard me come back in the house and yelled from the garage, - "I am down here, lets take this one".. I remember thinking, take what one, Mom's car? Why would be want to take that. I walked down and there with the garage door rolled up was Dad sitting in the passenger seat of the Challenger.. Wow.. talk about a kid at Christmas.. I walked over opened the drivers door and said - "when did you sneak this in here" and who cleaned it?" He smiled, handed me the note my cousin left and in I got. I had heard it run what seemed like a hundred times, and even sat in it and fired it up many times, but today it seemed to be a little different. As the starter engaged and the elephant came alive, it was like she was finally ready to get out of the cage. I remember it seemed like it barely turned over when it flashed up and as I feathered the gas peddle and let it warm up you could hear the power. I pulled off the emergency brake and off we went. Pretty much with my foot on the clutch, the other on and off the brake all the way out the drive, down an incline and down to the stop sign. I am not sure who had the biggest smile on their face, Dad or myself, but I do know it took a lot of restraint not to lite it up right there. But I turned right, let the clutch out and barely above an idle, drove it the couple of blocks to the main street. I looked both ways, and as I turned left onto the main street, I heard Dad say "flash it up a bit" which was coincidental as it was straight and pointed down main street I put my foot into it. Oh my god did it go. The front tires came up, the back wheels broke loose and the monster under the hood came alive. Its about 730 on a Saturday morning, and I am launching the Challenger on the main street of Rockwood. Its a sleepy little village with 995 people at the time, and everyone knows everyone, believe me. The speed limit is at the time 30 mph and well I may have been slightly above that as I shifted into 2nd opened it up for about 10 seconds, and then had to shut it down for the up and coming stop sign! I looked over at Dad, he was looking at me, both smiling, and he just pointed his finger forward. I took it pretty easy as he rolled out of town and I was wondering if I was fouling the 16 spark plugs(2 per cylinder) as I was moving barely over an idle going out of town. As we hit the edge of the town, and the ironic sign "Rockwood Settles here", which is ironic as the cemetery is right beside the sign, I down shifted from 3 to 2nd, and hammered it. The front tires came off the ground, the back tires were lite up and the smoke was rolling out the wheel wells and we were off. The front end came down straight and I never took my foot off the throttle, until the revs hit the red line and I speed shifted it into 3rd and again the tires broke loose momentarily. It was pedal to the floor and we may not have had wings but we were flying. Into 4th and I back off as the speedometer was well north of the speed limit. Dad looks over and says to me - "ok its officially broke in, so you can stop babying it! Butttttttt if your going to drive it like you stole it, we best take it to the strip!" And so the seed was planted. We went down and picked up Grandpa Kingsbury who had really long ago finished breakfast. He literally would be up before the crack of dawn, and would have a half a days work done and breakfast made and eaten by 730am. We got down to the farm and he was sitting out on the front porch. He could hear us coming for likely 2 miles but sat there and seemed to enjoy us rolling up the lane. I said, "do you want to drive Grampa" and he chuckled and said, "nah there maybe too many police out." Dad had gotten into the back seat behind me and was wedged in with his feet over to the passenger side because Grandpa was well over 6 foot 6 and with his long legs had the seat all the way back and it well tilted into the back. The Challenger definitely was only a slight step up to a Plymouth business coupe when it came to 3 generations of Kingsbury's in the car. At 6 feet and 225 at the time, I was definitely the smallest member of the family in the car as we headed off to Guelph for breakfast. I don't remember a lot of the trip in, but I do remember as we pulled into the restaurant's parking lot, my Grandfather Bolton had his car parked right at the front door. During breakfast as more and more of Dad's buddies or employees or Grandfather Bolton's friends arrived it was clear this was well planned. There were no cell phones or instant messaging in those days. Heck, both Grandfathers were on a party line telephone service still in the 1970s. What started off as Breakfast turned into a 1 car,car show with us sitting at the front window and Dad or one of the Grandfathers out doing a show and tell with the car hood up. After breakfast Grandfather Bolton says something to the effect of "lets talk her out to the strip" and he lead us out to the edge of Guelph where a good friend of his owned the private air strip. I remember thinking there is not a chance they are going to let me take my car out on the strip, but hey I was just driving. We drove in the airport and up close to the middle of the track was and still is a little restaurant. In we went for coffee and as we were being given a table by the window, Grandfather was walking right past the employee only sign, through the kitchen and into the office that was in the back where the owner of the airport spent his Saturday mornings. Out he came with Grandfather and both sat down and we had coffee. A few minutes went by and he looked over at my Dad and said - "well Eddie, so your boy has a new race car I hear". I cant remember exactly what Dad responded with, but the conversation soon turned to maybe having a little match race down the strip against his Sons Corvette. His son had a 1967 corvette with a 427 in it. the engine was built by the local speed shop and had a big blower coming through the hood a couple of holley carbs and some crazy velocity stacks on top of that. It looked like something out of a cartoon. They had a few planes scheduled to take off or land in the next 40 minutes but after that there seemed to be a window. I just sat there at listened. Heck the car wasn't on the road for 1/2 a day yet and were talking about drag racing it. Dad looked over at me at one point and said, well what do you think. You want to take it out for a tuneup and see what we have. I do remember saying something like - "well if you think we should be really racing it, and if you think I can handle it, I guess". I do remember him saying back to me that given how I handled it so far, and given the airstrip is real wide, there should be lots of room and he wasn't remotely worried about the engine. So an hour later we roll out onto the air strip for an old school start and a car parked down the strip at the 1/4 mile marker. To be honest I had seen his son drive the Corvette through Guelph many times, and even had him come up to the lights beside me when I was on my motorcycle. The Vette ran like a complete ****-house with some wild cam and questionable ignition system that seemed more like it was missing more times than it was firing at low idle. It really wasn't much of a race, as despite the Vette leaving the line early, I was going by him in 1st gear as it was sounding more like a hit and miss motor than some high performance drag racing car, and when I crossed over the 1/4 mile marker he was 30or 40 car lengths behind me. It really wasn't close. He wanted a rematch and his Dad who owned the strip said, ok but this time if your tires start moving before my flashlight goes on your disqualified and paying for Tims fuel for the next month. This time he most certainly didn't leave early but about the time I hit 3rd I looked in my rear view mirror and couldn't tell if he had left the line yet or not he was that far behind. I crossed over the finish line and I could see him coming behind me, but he was a long long way back. We all wound up back in the airpark restaurant and not only did the owner shake my hand, but he also said to me if I ever needed any high test aviation fuel that all I had to do was drop by to see him and then directed me to take the car over and fill it up on him, before we left ! To say I had fun with the car was an understatement. There were more than the odd guy wanting to run me across the lights, but the reality was there was nothing even close to touching it. It could pass anything but the gas station, and I pretty much always had the trunk 5 gallon gas cans as it was pretty fussy about what fuel it ran on, and 105 octane fuel wasn't just on every corner. The car was definitely not a daily driver and the reason was strictly because even with a great part time job, that seemed me really working 40 hours a week while I was going to school, I just couldn't afford the fuel to drive it all the time. It wasn't long before Dad and I wound up with the car at Toronto International Dragway. The strip has officially closed as an NHRA track but there was still Friday and Saturday night racing taking place and Dad knew the manager Ted Bosma. There was pretty much everything short of top fuel and jet cars at the track and there were no sunday racing. We would drive the car to the track, change the back tires to slicks, and away we went. The licence for the dragstrip to operate seemed to have major restrictions. So some how Dad got us in to do a bit of testing early so for several Fridays we got there at 4pm and were able to get a few passes. Then came my chance, we were in a Modified Stock class and honestly I am not sure what the restrictions were. I know there were no blowers, and they were always checking the block casting #, but it didn't seem to be an issue with obviously nonstock heads and 2 distributors. Nor did they seem to be testing fuel, or at least not that I remembered. I have a ton of Friday night and Saturday afternoon drag racing stories, tons of pictures, time tickets and pictures of some pretty famous drivers who Dad worked for or with at some point that happened to drop by the track to see "the kid". On thanksgiving weekend we had a record 95 degree day with humidity that was approaching 100%. Dad had swapped out in carbs, and components to run Alcohol and in a cross over class race with the Pro Stock winner, the Challenger is 9.95 seconds 135.07 MPH in the 1/4 mile to break the 10 second barrier. Remember this is well before electronic boxes, and this is a 4 speed car, so back in the day, breaking the 10 second barrier was quite a feat. It also got the attention of the tech crew chief. Shortly after Toronto International would shut down as subdivisions crept ever closer and the one time country side drag strip that was one of the 1st to see Jet cars rocket down the track, quickly become under major attack by local politicians and just about as quick faded into the history books. Despite being encouraged by a number of well known drivers and racing teams, probably for the best I didn't pursue the lure of a career in drag racing. Lol... that doesn't mean that I don't have a signed ticket by a very famous driver and managed to keep a top fuel car in the lane at well north of 200 mph, but of course, that is another story !
  41. 2 points
    Part 3 - 1st car I purchased! .. Out comes the engine and the rebuild begins! We left off in my story with Mom knowing and surprisingly wasn’t quite ready to kill me. Of course my Mom is about 5 foot 2 and 120 pounds, and at 16 I was 6 feet and 220 pounds, but then, even I knew if she had it in for us Dad and I would be dead, lol figuratively speaking of course. In any case, the week after Mom found out about the car and we had the little family show and tell, Dad and I started on the motor. Off came the hood, and off came the intake. Dad shock his head, and soon off came the passenger side head. Not happy with what he saw, off came the other head. I remember Dad saying, well we have a project here alright, and off he went to get a engine tree as Grandpa called it. It was and adjustable frame that went over the car and that you could put a chain fall from a mounted hook and pull and engine. It was something Grandpa had made and it really was a heavy duty piece of equipment that could be taken apart and moved by 1 person, however assembled had no problem to pull a big motor out of a tractor or bulldozer. Up went the engine tree and before he left the hemi was out of the car and sitting on the barn floor, with its 4 speed transmission coming with it. The heads went into the back of Mom’s Fargo pickup that we had driven to the farm and home for supper we went. Mom of course wanted to know if it was back running yet, and Dad with a straight face said, nope, we need to freshen it up a bit. Lol.. yah freshen it up a bit was one way to put it. After supper Dad and I were in his shop attached to the house, and disassemble of the head took place. What we saw wasn’t pretty. Numerous valves were burnt, there were seats cracked and it was pretty clear, the engine had been driven hard. The next day Dad took the head to work and when he got home, the report wasn’t good. Both heads had cracks, the one with the blown head gasket and the most burnt valves was warped, cracked and pretty much not repairable. Next thing to move up from the farm to the shop was the short block. We knew there was antifreeze in the pan, so the question was, how long had it run with antifreeze in the pan and what there the bearings like.. Lol..well pan off and a couple of caps off, and it wasn’t pretty. Bearings were ruined,crank was damaged, rods were marginal, 3 pistons were damaged, and things were not looking well. Everything got checked for cracks, damage,and in the end Dad would say – well son, at least the block isnt cracked.. So much for this hemi needing a head gasket and away we go. This went from that to a rebuild, to a major rebuild, to the need for a lot of new parts. The truth is the list of parts was extensive. New crank, rods, pistons, rings, cam, heads, valves and on and on.. So with my part time, after school and summer time job at Rockwood hardware on the go I was literally saving nickel I could for parts. A couple more part time jobs and I was certainly putting in the hours. I think both Grandfathers, a couple of uncles, and heck even my Mom was feeling sorry for me. When people asked what I wanted for my birthday or Christmas, out came the parts list.. lol Dad help me find a good crank courtesy of his Chrysler contacts, and I sure lots about modifying a perfectly good crank to make it better. In Grampas shop we bored out the block and Grampa pulled some stings to get me a set of top fuel h-beam rods that actually were likely worth more than I paid for the car. I quickly learned there are balanced rods, and well there are rods my Dad and Grampa were willing to accept as balanced. Out came a rod balancing tool Grampa first built in the 1930s and that had undergone a few modifications and I got to watch the master at work. A so called balanced set of rods, under went about 30 more hours of work Partly it took so long as I was undergoing training Grampa and Dad style and partly because it started to become the pursuit of a perfect set of parts. At one point in time, Dad went into his parts room in the shop and out he came with a set of heads. These were no normal Hemi Heads and they had already undergone extensive modifications. Dad said to me, “well if were going to do this, then lets really do it”.. and it was really game on. I remember one Saturday morning, it wasn’t even light and Dad was waking me up to head to his shop. Assembly was about to start. It was more than a little father-son time, as Grampa Kingsbury was already in the shop with everything lined up ready to roll.We started assembly and after lunch Grampa Bolton arrived with the “mystery cam”. I say mystery because he and Dad were back and forth of cam specs, and Grampa had cut and parkerized 3 or 4 cams, had them put in the block checked things and out they came again. So he had mystery cam #7 as it was known because he had it wrapped in an old hockey practice jersey of mine, and you guessed it, it had a #7 on it. I figured I was there to make coffee, run for stuff, but oh no.. I most certainly was under heavy supervision, but the expectation was I was to by the chief assembly guy. By Sunday afternoon, the engine was complete and hooked up to a test bed Dad had for testing engines. I figured ok, lets fire this puppy up…. But oh no.. It seems I was the only one that didn’t know this was going to be a command performance. So we cleaned up,went home, got ready and headed to Grama and Grampa Kingsbury’s for Sunday night dinner. It was darn near a family reunion with aunts and uncles and cousins. After supper was over the two Grama’s standing at the head of the table asked if anyone wanted to go see what ‘Tim, and the cast of automotive tinkerers were up to”. I am sure I blushed a bit and my Grampa Kingsbury burst out laughing as my Grampa Bolton rolled his eyes and my Dad just shook his head. So everyone loaded up, and off to Dad’s shop we went. I thought it a little odd for about 20 people to have interest in test firing my engine, but what the heck.. So we all arrived in the shop and fired up the monster. With open headers dumping into hoses going outside,2 huge 4 barrel carbs on top, it definitely barked as it was 1st fired. The heads we were using had 2 spark plugs per cylinder so when my cousin said- “no wonder this thing is so loud. A v16 is so cool”… Of course that lead to my mom commenting that “no wonder it is so expensive” … and so the misinformation continued. Thanks Mom! Then came the real reason everyone was there. It wasn’t really to hear the engine start up, it was because my aunts and uncles had got together and had the interior redone, had it put into the rolling chassis, and they had brought it up from the farm and rolled it into Dad’s shop after we had left for home. It was a few days before my birthday and well “Happy Birthday!” was the theme as my Uncle got me over as he pretended to look in the car for the 1st time. So there it was, the engine done, the car done, it was just a case of getting the engine bolted back up to the transmission, and sliding the “big elephant” back into place! In the next chapter: Its locked down, who knows and who cares how much HP it has, its time to take this puppy to Toronto International Dragway ! Lol.. the NHRA 1/4 mile track, not the now Toronto International Airport !
  42. 2 points
    Sharp Speed and Power Equipment - Al Sharp First up a vintage decal from Sharp Speed and Power Equipment. Yes this is the Al Sharp who under the banner "Sharp Engineering" Sponsored (and built the Hemi Heads) for the famous - "Mooneyham & Sharp 554 1934 Coupe" that can today be found be found at Don "Big Daddy" Garlits Drag Racing Museum oh and of course of the famous Hot Wheels collection ! It seems Al Sharp acquired the Fenton intake patterns at a bankruptcy auction from Aaron Fenton. He used the Fenton intake patterns to cast the Von Esser, Jet, Ralph's muffler Shop, Don Cherry and others. Among those patterns he casted Plymouth/Dodge small blog intake under his own name "Sharp" and for Douglas Speed Shop (D & S on those intakes being Douglas and Sharp) Al Sharp had worked for a pattern maker before he joined the Navy and spent World War 2 in the Navy. When he got out he founded SP pattern service. I am lead to believe SP stood for Sharp and Pilkington (Gordon Pilkington). I believe the SP tops were designed for the Stromberg 97 carbs by the SP pattern service. So the reason why Sharp Intakes for the flathead Mopars perform like the Fentons, seems to be because they are the exact same except for the name/markings ! What I didn't know until very recently was after Al Sharp passed away in the fall of 2004, the Sharp brand continued and on July 26, 2013 the "Sharp Speed and Power Equipment" Brand has been sold to H & H Flatheads/Navarro Racing Equipment. Here is a picture of Al Sharp holding a flathead intake, the above aforementioned drag racing coupe. Here are a few shots of a Sharp intake for a 23 1/2" USA small block courtesy of http://p15-d24.com/user/3672-deathbound/ I have recently spoken to a member who has a D&S branded intake and it was he who jogged my memory about Sharp intakes as I had posted a picture of Al last year in response to another thread. While it is not really this thread/concept, it may be a good idea to do a piece or thread on the Legend Al Sharp and his partner and Racing Legend Gene Mooneyham. Gene a member of the NHRA hall of fame passed away January 2006, only a few months after Al Sharp. But to Sharp or D&S intakes, heads, instructions, advertisement or other documentation please bring it forward! Tim Update: Here are some pictures from http://p15-d24.com/user/5770-61farnham/ of his D & S intake and right below I will put the Fenton so you can see just how similar they are ! Amazing The Fenton -
  43. 2 points
    In Part two - The 1949 Plymouth raises its head again or the World is a small place contest winner .. The 1949 Plymouth would disappear and fall out of mind after Aunt Thelma had passed away. Then in 2009 at my Dad’s funeral a friend of mine told me about an old Plymouth that was for sale that I might be interested in. A couple of weeks past and I really wasn’t looking for project, but after being nagged a few times to go see the car, we embarked on a ride to St Thomas. My friend was following directions written on a piece of paper and I remember thinking boy we are closer to London than St Thomas. When we arrived, I thought to myself what a cool old brick building this was and how it looked like a garage or commercial building built at the turned of the century. It really was a large building that had garage doors and enterances on the main street and a side street. We walked up to the side door and out came a gentleman, I would guess in his 70’s and I remarked what a cool building he had He said it was his Grandfathers had it built in 1905 by one of the foremost builders of the day and he proceeded to give us a tour. It was like a time capsule with several bays of projects that looked like they hadn’t been touched in decades. We then went down a long hall and came through the small office that was obviously for the garage and into what was more an old retail office space. He had offered us a coffee and we proceeded into a small kitchen area. He remarked that this was his Mom’s office really and that is why it was a lot cleaner. While it most certainly was, it looked like it had been pretty much mothballed for years. So as we got coffee, he said - “well you have come to see Mom Baby” and the truth is all I knew was it was a Plymouth. I didn’t know what year, what model or anything really. My friend was quick to jump into the conversation and said, yes we were there to see his Mother’s Baby and then went on to explain what major Mopar fans my family were. Later on I found out that my friend had heard about the car from a mutual friend, but heard that its owner really only had interest in selling the car if it was going to a good home and apparently he had tossed a guy who looked at it and suggested it would make a good project to put a 350 chevy in it. He said, well I will take you over to show it to you. I thought we were going to be going for a ride. Instead he exited that office space in another direction and walked into another part of the building. This part of the building had garage bay doors on a side street. As I walked into the garage, coming down two steps my jaw dropped. There in front of me was a 1957 Fargo PowerWagon. But the truth was, while the light blue Power Wagon was pretty impressive it was what sat on the other side of it that caused my jaw to drop. There was the 1949 Plymouth Business Coupe and the second I saw it I knew exactly what it was. There was Aunt Thelma’s Plymouth. I looked at my friend some how thinking it was a surprise, but nope, no one in the room seemed to know what I knew. I walked over, looked in and there on the odometer was just under 17,500 miles. I said, nice garage and he said, oh yes, this is Mom’s garage, which means its heated, clean and only her vehicles get parked in here. As he talked it became clear his Mother had passed away and the Power Wagon and the Plymouth had not moved since. On the seat of each were maintenance books, and every year he changed the oil and serviced the car, but the mileage listed had changed only 3 miles since 1989. He said, well Im sure you want to hear them run and I hesitated, because the truth was I didn’t need to hear it run. I said, that would be nice, but I hope you don’t mind if I ask how much you want for them. He said, well the Power Wagon isn’t for sale, and the Plymouth, well it might be for sale. If it is it will take “$.....censored” to buy it. I said, well, you say it might be for sale, what do you mean might. He went on to say it was important to him that is go to a good home. My friend piped in and started to become my personal marketing department and I stood back and smiled. Then it was time for a confession. I said to him, well this isnt the 1st time I have seen this car, and I am almost positive I can tell you a little bit about the car. He smiled and said, oh I would be surprised at that. I went on to tell him the rest of the story and about the time we got to Aunt Thelma’s wedding he was half laughing and half crying. He said, well well, you may know more about this car than I do. About then he did remember where he had seen me before, and that was the MC at Aunt Thelma’s wedding. My fear was of course. that once he knew how much I wanted the car, the price would skyrocket. That turned out to be unfounded. Oh and my friend, thought it was supposed to be a 4 door Plymouth with an overdrive. Call it the world is a small place, call it my Aunt Thelma was somewhere directing me to get back her car, or call it blind luck, it really doesn’t matter. After 30 minutes of talking and we hadn’t even started the car, he looked at me and said well should I start the car and give you a sales pitch on the car, or are you about to tell me you want the car and it doesn’t really matter. I reached out shook his hand and said, I think we have a deal. Then I remarked I actually thought his Mothers was unmarried and didnt have any children. Turns out it was his Aunt, but he, his brothers and sisters and a lot of the neighbors kids all called her Mom. Yes I realize it adds to the confusion when you call your Aunt Mom, but it certainly started to get a lot clearer for me. It turned out that the car was driven from a garage on Waterloo Avenue, about 4 miles to the Garage which had the license Bureau at one end of the building and the car was parked inside while she was at work. If it rained, apparently she drove the power wagon home and come the fall the Plymouth stayed in the heated garage all winter and she drove the Power Wagon back and forth to work. When she stopped driving, the car stayed at the garage and only really came out when she wanted to go somewhere in her car, like her best friend Thelma’s wedding. Her nephew lived across the street from the garage and when his Aunt “Mom” passed away they sold the house on Waterloo Avenue to settle the estate and he wound up with the garage and everything in it. He was the youngest of his family and so when his Mom and Dad passed away he inherited the small house across the road and with all his siblings moved away he became he Aunts right hand ! It also seemed his real mother worked with his aunt at the license Bureau and his Dad worked with his grandfather and ran the local gas station and garage. So it all became pretty clear what had happened. Or at least clear to me ! Part of the deal was the Plymouth could remain in its heated garage until spring. So it got to spend one more winter in its garage, and in April 2010 my wife and I took the Dodge Diesel Pickup that I inherited from my Dad along with my car trailer down and picked up the Plymouth. The picture of it sitting on the grass was taken the day I picked it up. He had taken it on to the grass yard across from the garage and gave it a bath before I picked it up. We drove home, and I took it over to a buddy’s garage for him to give it a safety. He laughed as he put it up on the hoist, then took the wheels off to look at the brakes and about an hour later called me and said – So I was going to service the car, but I see by the log book it was serviced 2 days ago. I checked the oil, checked he rear end and the antifreeze and sure enough it looks like it was all just changed. He said, so come pick it up, it didn’t really take a dam thing to safety. So up to the Garage we went, got the ownership/title, and went and changed it into my name.The 1949 Plymouth Business Coupe, was back in the family ! In Part 3 - "So what would my Aunt do.. What would me Grandfather’s do and ultimately what would my Dad do !"
  44. 2 points
    So I had a bit of spare time tonight so I wrote part 3.. so a little 2 in 1 night bonus, or extra stuff to put you to sleep ! Part 3 - So what would my Aunt do.. What would me Grandfather’s do and ultimately what would my Dad do ! So The 1949 Plymouth Business Coupe, was back in the family and I had spent all winter thinking about the car and what I would do with it. While I realize many people would try and make this super low mile car a 100 point trailer queen, that was really not in the cards. Nor would it be to wreck it as some would do by putting a 350 chevy … spit…… or a V8 in the car. Definitely if I wanted to there is actually a 1969 426 hemi around here that I could have popped into the car.. but nah.. Now as for what my Aunt would do.. oh I am very confident I know what that would be. She wouldn’t do anything to it. Oh she might have it washed and definitely would have had it serviced as per the schedule my Dad gave her when she bought the car (and was still in the glove box) but that would be it. My Grandfathers.. Well my Mom’s Dad, the Chrysler Engineer, likely would have been the guy, if he was alive, to put in the absolute maximum horsepower he figured the car would hold. He would likely put some supercharged v10 viper motor or something in it with a 6 speed transmission. My other Grandfather, Grampa Kingsbury, well he would have went into the back yard and yanked out a 265 Dodge/Fargo motor with a factory dual carb and dual exhaust setup on it and built up a hot rod flathead motor that would be period correct for the generation of the car. Finally my Dad, he would have been right in line with his Dad’s idea, but then like my Mothers 1956 Fargo, or his 1941 Plymouth, or several other vehicles, he would have put a 3 speed over drive transmission in it, and just maybe would have moved it to a floor shift like he did with Mom’s pickup. Without question, he would be looking for his good friend George Asche to build the overdrive, as he built the engine. The engine would be as close to a hot stock car or drag engine as he could make it with a Vintage Flathead 6. It also would take advantage of today’s technology and sport the AoK triple intake that was his last performance project before he died. So what was my plan… well of course, put in a 350 chevy in it.. rofl.. not a snow ball chance in hell.. I am just messing with you folks ! The plan was to take a little bit of Grandfather Bolton and use the AoK triple which was the ultra-modern, then take a whole bunch of my Grandfather Kingsbury and use a 265 Truck Engine, which in 1952 had more horsepower than any vehicle sold my any manufacturer in North America.. and of course take a bunch of what my Dad would do including the AoK intake he had a part in. Then to add in a little bit of my 20 year old son Daniel ideas and of course use a lot of my 2nd Dad and my brothers (from a different Mother), in George Asche Jr and my brothers Rob and G3 (George III) ideas. Heck I may even use the odd idea from Lee Petty in the project. Daniel's was one who thought we should get a personalized license plate for the car, exactly like George Asche's 1950 Plymouth and so.. ta dah.. that one was pretty easy to complete ! "6 in arw" Ontario version, just like George's PA version.. Next up, Part 4 – The Plymouth gets trailered to AoK headquarters and is parked beside the “World’s Fastest Dinasour” & “Calling In Favors”
  45. 1 point
    Howdy folks - Coming from another blog topic, which strayed down a back road, came the idea of transmissions for Mopar Cars and Trucks that were post 1940 that came with Column shift and the normally column shift transmission was modified or the linkage was to turn it into a 3 speed floor shift transmission. So this isn't about taking a vehicle that had column shift and putting a transmission for the 1930s or a modern floor shift transmission to make the vehicle floor shift. This is taking say a 1950s r10g1 overdrive and putting it into a 1930s car or a 1950s pickup and making it a floor shift. It could also be taking a standard 3 speed column shift and making it into a floor shift in that same vehicle. Its not a new concept by any stretch. My Dad put an r10g1 overdrive from a 1952 Plymouth into a 1951 Fargo pickup truck which had been a 3 speed column shift pickup. He had taken a Fenton floor shifter kit that was a kit to move column shifts and made a bunch of changes to get it to work. The truck is long gone but we actually recovered the shifter which had been cut off at some point by the person who got the pickup. I will take some pictures at some point for the fun of it. We got it moving again but it would be too expensive to try and duplicate. George has also built a very simplified for racing which is super simple, although I am not sure would work for regular street usage, and he also has one his Uncle Harry Hein's made but duplicating it, is a project that hasn't quite made it to the top of the pile. We also have several pictures of guys who have done them, although most are pretty heavily involved and some quite clunky looking. All that being said, the reason I started this was - Paul aka pflaming had posted a picture of his project of making a traditional 3 speed floor shift Plymouth transmission, and turning it into a floor shift, which really was the impetus for this blog idea. "The shifter I fabbed from a photo, not my design. It is uncomplicated and will serve my purposes very well. The tranny and OD are not on the engine yet."
  46. 1 point
    This is my attempt on a run down of the work done so far on the interior. 1. The seats were reupholstered from a maroon-color vinyl to a black/grey leather-like vinyl. The back seat was out of a 1980 something blazer. Perfect fit and with new fabric looks perfect! Also notice the maroon carpet trim. I used VHT black plastic/vinyl spray paint. Saved the expense of resewing the trim :-D 2. If I would have been on top of my game I would have taken before pictures of the gauges. They were Dakota digital and green. Not a good combo for a convertible. The sun is most always on top or behind you, so it was always a guess as to how fast I was driving. I chose Autometer gauges and an aluminum dash insert. The dash was disassembled and removed. My husband and I debated on painting it with an automotive glossy black. A few months later we decided powder coating was far more durable and not too expensive. The local company we use gently sandblasted the dash, glovebox and windshield frame then powder coated. They look great and will not scratch as easily as paint! 3. The steering wheel was a task. I originally chose a Grant three-spoke wheel that the company rep said would work with my steering column (1970 Imperial with tilt and telescoping). SHE was incorrect. In my 13+ years dealing with the automotive industry I have learned that just because a girl can answer the phone or stand at the parts counter does not mean she knows her **** (pardon the language). So, the grant kit does not accommodate telescoping steering and there is no way to "rig" it to work. The husband did some research and found the Lecarra company. They made an adapter kit for my steering column and carried lovely steering wheels. I chose one that looked more retro and decided not to paint in because I'm going for a more "ratrod" look. 4. My biggest achievement was the driver's side door trim. There was not one on the door and none to be found anywhere. I contacted a few local metal workers until I found one that had experience in fabricating parts on older cars. Luckily, the passenger door had the trim and the guy said he could make one to fit the driver's side. $200 later I have NEW door trim that looks original and fits. Hazah! Stay tuned for my next update on the exterior (we put in the engine/tranny today!)
  47. 1 point
    If an engine has run for many an rpm, it will change the insides, most notably the top of the cylinders, for a ring of 'carbon' will build up. This ring reduces the length of the piston's travel. To compensate for that loss several things must happen, the rods must torque a bit, or the bearings must give a bit, or the crankshaft or the piston or some of all of these must compensate for a shorter available stroke. Eventually, especially when the engine must pull a heavy load, or climb a long hill, or is suddenly called upon to run at significantly higher rpms, or is run hot or on less oil something will give. Thus the reason to pull the head on an unfamiliar engine and check if there is a ring and remove whatever is there for with that removed, the engine now is able to run it's rpms with full freedom. By assuring that the piston has full range of motion the engine's life is extended. In like manner the valves, cleaned and seated provides the air flow required thus a cooler temperature and thus less fatigue. Now these improvements do not a new engine make, but they may provide the amount of extended time one needs until a complete build is required or desired. I find the basics of the mechanical arena as interesting as the infinite details, important as they may be and by knowing and improving the basics I can enjoy this hobby without spending lots of money. Now if I can refrain from burning down the shop, I may be able to play a bit longer.
  48. 1 point
    As referenced in my blog thread - The Rough Field Spotters Guide for Mopar Overdrives http://p15-d24.com/blog/17/entry-79-the-rough-field-spotters-guide-for-mopar-overdrives/ One of the great articles I would like to refer to, is one that I have been given Permission from “the living legend” - Jim Benjaminson to use here. Of course if you are not a member of the Plymouth Owners Club here is the place to Do that and catch other cool stuff and articles http://www.plymouthbulletin.com/index.htm FROM THE PAGES OF... Borg Warner Overdrive Transmission by Don Frolich The first production offering of overdrive on domestic automobiles was on the 1934 Chryslers and DeSotos, an event no doubt greatly overshadowed by the radically-new Airflow theme offered that year by those same two marques. It’s perhaps ironic, then, that this option was not available on Plymouths until mid-year 1952 production an, only a few years before its popularity would wane in favor of the ubiquitous automatic transmission and a resurrection of the 4 speed manual box. Detroit had tried to compensate for the power and RPM limitations of the early thirties engine by means of four speed transmissions, but these were expensive. Moreover, drivers apparently were then unwilling to cope with the additional shifting necessary to take full advantage of them. In the fact, surveys showed that a great deal many 4 speed owners seldom, if ever, used all four ratios in normal driving. The 1934 Chrysler and DeSoto overdrives (Borg-Warner units, developed in conjunction with Mopar engineers) offered a good compromise solution to this problem, and between 1935 and 1942 eight other marques jumped on the bandwagon with the same Warner overdrives, which soon acquired reputations for both high speed and economy. Both as originally conceived and in its later generation format on the 1952 Plymouth, the overdrive was essentially a small case bolted to the back of the regular 3 speed transmission having a planetary gearset, which when engaged, reduced engine RPM’s by 30 percent at a given car speed. The first overdrive had no "kickdown" feature; once above the engagement speed (45 mph on the 1934’s) you momentarily let up on the gas to engage the overdrive, at which point the car was locked into that drive ratio until you again dropped below engagement speed. It could be locked out manually by a dashboard cable, but only below engagement speed, thus the engineers’ trade-offs in selecting the engagement speed were formidable problems. Too high, it would seldom be used; too low, the car would always be lugging, with very poor responsiveness in traffic, especially at higher attitudes. The fully automatic electrically operated version was introduced in 1939, and its final form, first appeared in 1946, was operationally unchanged but was simplified and less bulky that its ancestors. Having pioneered the use of overdrive, it‘s surprising what a meager use Chrysler Corporation made of it over the years. Chrysler and DeSoto offered it from the 1934 to 1940 (and 1941 eights); it next appeared in the fifities on Dodge and DeSoto (until 1956) and Plymouth (through 1959) Dodge trucks could be ordered with overdrives from 1954 to 1956. Most independents relied heavily on the overdrive from the thirties until 1963; Ford and Mercury used it from 1949 to 1963; and Chevrolet (the only GM user) from 1955 to 1963. The basic element of an overdrive is a single epicyclic or planetary gearset, consisting of: (1) a central, externally toothed sun gear; (2) a set of smaller externally toothed planet gears arranged around (and meshing with) the outside of the sun gear, their "axles" collectively supported by a carrier; and (3) an internally toothed ring gear surrounding (and meshing with) the several planet gears. A planetary gearset is in constant mesh. And it can be made to step rotational speeds up or down, or even reverse direction, by judicious choice of which of the three elements is driven and which is prevented from rotating. For example, if the planet carrier is made to rotate around a fixed central sun gears, than the planet gears "walk" around the sun gear and at the same time revolve about their own individual axes as well (just as heavenly planets both spin on their own axes and also travel around the sun, hence the nomenclature). The planet gears in turn drive the ring gear (output) at some rate faster that the input speed (1.4 times as fast in the overdrive). Planetary Gearset As used in the overdrive, automatic shifting from conventional to overdrive and vice-versa is dependent on an electric-solenoid-operated pawl which can be made to hold the sun gear stationary, an over-running clutch on the output shaft, and three electrical circuits: control, solenoid and kickdown. The control circuit (Fig. 1) closes the overdrive relay when: the ignition switch is on, the dash control handle pushed in (engaged), car speed is above the approximately 25 mph (sensed by a governor switch on the transmission output), and the kickdown switch plunger in not depressed. Fig. 1 Control Circuit The solenoid circuit (Fig. 2) simply provides current to the solenoid when the relay is closed. Fig. 2 Solenoid Circuit When the kickdown switch (Fig. 3) plunger is depressed, two things happen: (1) the normally closed contacts in the solenoid circuit are opened, de-energizing the solenoid; the solenoid spring attempts to withdraw the pawl but the engine torque holds it in. (2) A normally open set of contacts is closed, which completes a circuit from the ignition coil to the solenoid and thence, inside the solenoid, to ground. This interrupts engine torque so the solenoid can retract, which in turns opens the ground contact inside the solenoid, thus immediately restoring ignition function and thus engine power. On the upshift into overdrive, the free wheeling effect of the over running clutch when the accelerator is lifted unloads the torque path (drive line) sufficiently for the solenoid to engage without ignition interruption. Fig. 3 Kick Down Circuit As the interchange list indicates, several fifties era Mopar overdrives can be interchanges directly with the transmission assembly (with extension) on many non- overdrive cars back at least to 1941. The overdrive units themselves are all the same; also the transmission in overdrive equipped cars is essentially the same (as non-O.D.) except for a rail which runs internally from the transmission to the overdrive and serves to lock out the overdrive whenever the car is put into reverse, otherwise the over-running clutch would not transmit reverse torque to the rear wheels. Thus if you find an overdrive transmission that seems correct in most details, but differs, say, transmission input shaft, you can interchange parts between the two transmissions. However don’t try to attach just the overdrive part onto your non-overdrive transmission: it can be done but is tricky, requiring special machining of the case and some other parts. In addition to the complete transmission-overdrive assembly, the following control parts are required to complete the conversion: the solenoid, control lever, and governor switch, all of which fasten into of onto the overdrive housing: the control cable and dashboard handle; a kickdown switch and bracket, which mounts on the carburetor linkage; and the overdrive relay, which mounts under the hood. Try to get the wiring harness also, either to use of for a pattern for replacement. On my 1949 Plymouth, I mounted the kickdown switch through the floorboard but under the mat just to the left of the clutch pedal pad, so I could get kickdown without dumping the carburetor accelerator pumps, or if I wished, go from second overdrive to high "overdrive" by rolling my left foot outward so as to hit the kickdown as I depressed the clutch for the shift. Later, to accommodate my wife, whose natural action when she wanted more power was to press down the gas pedal, not the left floorboard, I added a second kickdown switch in the conventional location on the carburetor. The normally closed (control circuit) contacts on the two switches must be wired in series, and the two sets of normally open (ignition grounding) contacts connected in parallel. Anyone who makes the conversion should be aware that a given replacement overdrive (or any other) transmission may have come from a car with a different rear axle ratio, especially since in most years standard ratios were different for cars with and without overdrive. Usually, just replace the speedometer drive pinion in the new transmission with the one from the old to correct the speedometer. Also, be certain that the solenoid circuit is wired with No. 10 wire, and that it is protected with a 14 amp fuse at the battery terminal on the relay. As to standard rear end ratios, from 1949 through 1952, the 118-1/2 " wheel base cars used 3.9 except the 4 door wagon used 4.1 and the 111" wheel base cars uses 3.73. In 1953 and 1954, non overdrive cars used 3.73 and overdrive, 4.1. A car with 3.73 gears may no work too well with the overdrive: what with Dr. Fed’s Magic Elixir, the Great 55 MPH Hoax , you may never drive fast enough to avoid lugging the engine in overdrive. My ’49 with 3.9 gears seemed to be just fine, but of course I drove a lot then at speeds that are now illegal. Note the effect of the 0.7 overdrive ration on overall drive gearing: Rear Axle Ratio Overall ratio in O.D. 3.54 -> 2.48 3.73 -> 2.61 3.9 -> 2.73 4.1 -> 2.87 4.3 -> 3.01 The literature is somewhat contradictory on transmission interchange, so judgment and especially visual comparison is important. The swap should work on any standard transmission Plymouth 6 from 1941 through 1956. However, it appears from the interchange listings for the short wheelbase P-17, P19 and P-22 cars a transmission with a shortened extension housing was used. So to use the same drive shaft as the larger cars would mean that installation of an overdrive would require shortening or switching the driveshaft. On the other hand, as far as I can tell, the 1952 P-22 was available with overdrive, yet the interchange listings show no short drive shafts to accommodate the extra length. So on this switch, your guess is as good as (probably better than) mine. One warning after you have successfully completed your conversion: in order to lock out the overdrive while moving, depress the accelerator so as to be sure it is kicked down to "underdrive", then while continuing to accelerate simply pull out the control handle. It can be engaged at any time- just push in the control. In these days of ever-increasing gas prices, especially on tour cars, this conversion makes a lot of sense. It can also save wear and tear on the engine, and add considerably to the flexibility and thus your pleasure, in driving the car.
  49. 1 point
    Topic Moved to this thread/blog topic http://p15-d24.com/blog/17/entry-88-the-rough-field-spotters-guide-for-mopar-overdrives/
  50. 0 points
    Folks - I started to write this note on Monday on what was the 80th Birthday of my good friend, George Asche's wife June's 80th birthday. June has been in extremely poor health for the last 14 months and has surpassed all of the medical experts estimates. The last few weeks have been a struggle but when I dropped by to visit with flowers as I have done for now close to 20 years, she smiled, thanked me and tried hard to carry on a conversation. She was a very cool lady. She was both extremely talented musically as she was up to Nascar races and what Mopar projects were going on around the AoK world. So I started my blog entry to pay tribute to the lady who called me her third son, which always got a both smile from both of us as I would say, I am always proud to be your oldest son, even if I was your last child.. Well, Monday was her 80th birthday and on Monday we started the celebration of her life as God called her home on her birthday. I apologize as I should have put up notification of her passing, but I just wasn't feeling up to it. On Wednesday evening there was a celebration of her life and the outpouring of love and support was incredible to see. At the end of the evening the count of the people who visited, was some how appropriate, being the magical Mopar number of 426! Thursday was her funeral service and it was a terrific service appropriate for just how special June was. It was an overflow crowd and was followed by a reception at the local church with enough food to feed a large army.... and I am not kidding. Here was the notice in the paper. http://www.fallerfuneralhome.com/obits/obituary.php?id=608005#.V18oeWWOgfE.facebook For those wondering how George is, I would say this. George and June have been married 60 years later this month. The loss of a spouse is a life changing event, but I know George well and he is at peace that his beloved June is today in a better place. June, like George was born again, and all of the family and close friends know that while June's time on earth has ended, her impact will go on forever and she is with God today, and likely either playing a guitar, piano, or watching a Nascar or NHRA race in heaven. George who was at June's side in the end as he has been on a constant basis during the last chapter of her life, I think finally got his 1st full nights rest in over a year this week. For those wishing to send a note to George, since I was asked today, George's address is 1693 Fertigs Road, Fertigs PA, 16364


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