A couple questions about shifting and grinding problems

[47heaven]

I recently had a new clutch put in my P15 and was wondering why when I first start driving, after starting the car, I can shift the gears smoothly, but as the engine warms up and I have been driving for a little while, there is minimal grinding with the gears when I shift. This happens more with first and second. I push the clutch pedal all the way in, but still get the grinding. What could be causing this when the car has been driven a for a while? Is it merely a clutch adjustment needed?

Also, does the clutch pedal return spring tend to snap after a while? What are the warning signs to be aware of? Mine has been making a squeeking sound lately. Could use some lubricant oil probably.

[bob westphal]

Could be just an adjustment needed. How much free play is there in the pedal? You should have about 3/4' to 1 1/2". If there is more than that, readjust it. Lube the spring pivots while you're down there. If the linkage is out of adjustment the return spring will make a snapping noise.

[greg g]

There is a trunbuckle type deal on the rod to the throwout fork. Lengthening this rod by turning the turnbuckle will give the clutch plate a little more travel, ie. it will cause the throwout fork to push the throwout bearing further putting a little more distance between the clutch and the flywheel when the clutch pedal is depressed. Three or 4 turns to make the rod longer should do the trick.

[D25_Steve]

Hmm, a squeeking sound? That reminds me!

Ours has been making a squeaking sound for quite some time right now, but I have yet to actually check it out to figure out what it is. Its more like a screeching sound, often as I shift into second. Not a typical grind noise.

[Normspeed]

Darin, another post reminded me of your question. Mine is a little different but similar. Mine likes to grind a bit going from 1st to second when cold. Once it's really warmed up and the gear oil has warmed, it shifts just fine. So mine seems to prefer a lighter weight (thinner) gear oil. Yours may be asking for something heavier if it shifts well cold but complains when warmed up. You might try a heavier gear oil, it's easy enough to drain and refill.

Also, a habit I developed years ago is to always shift into second before shifting into first or reverse. Even if you don't really need to use second, like if you're in neutral, just shift to second before hitting 1st or reverse. Or if you're coming up to a red light, go from high to second before you stop even if you don't let the clutch out in second. You'll get a lot less grinding going into 1st or reverse.

[47heaven]

Darin, another post reminded me of your question. Mine is a little different but similar. Mine likes to grind a bit going from 1st to second when cold. Once it's really warmed up and the gear oil has warmed, it shifts just fine. So mine seems to prefer a lighter weight (thinner) gear oil. Yours may be asking for something heavier if it shifts well cold but complains when warmed up. You might try a heavier gear oil, it's easy enough to drain and refill.

Also, a habit I developed years ago is to always shift into second before shifting into first or reverse. Even if you don't really need to use second, like if you're in neutral, just shift to second before hitting 1st or reverse. Or if you're coming up to a red light, go from high to second before you stop even if you don't let the clutch out in second. You'll get a lot less grinding going into 1st or reverse.

That's a good idea on the gear oil, Norm. I never thought about that. I do have what seams to be a seal leak from the trans. It's slow, but it's still leaking. Right now, the car is back in the shop because the carb started messing up and flooding. The problem is the old gas line and all the crud that's in it. I thought the new gas would clean it out and the filter would catch it, which it did, but some minute stuff gets through which clogs the needle which causes the flooding. Anyway, I took it to my carb guy and he said blowing out the carb was no broblem, but be fore he did it I had to do something about the fuel line, first. Also, he mentioned that the fuel pump probably has a lot of stuff in it, as well, and it also had to be blown out. So, he recommended me to a mechanic friend of his who took a shot at blowing out the crud, but when he did it, the tube formed a small hole when a rusted piece came lose. He said he couldn't believe how much crud came out of there

(old dried gas, dirt and rubber). I asked him if this stuff was coming out of the gas tank also and he said the gas out of the tank looked clean.

So to make a long story short, he had to order some kind of flex tube and will be installing it on either Monday or Tuesday. Then, I'll drive it back over to the carb guy and have him clean out the carb. The car should run real smooth after that.

When I get the car back, I'm going to try shifting to 2nd before putting it in 1st or reverse. The car doesn't like when I downshift to 2nd for slowing to either stop or make a turn. It grinds a little on that. Not sure if these cars were meant to down shift. In the owner's manuel it mentions that when you are coming to a stop, you are to put the car into neutral and then brake. That could wear the brakes down pretty quick.

[Normspeed]

When all is well in the tranny they downshift into second real smooth. As they get a little worn, and the synchros aren't fresh anymore, you might get a little grinding. The good side is, these cars have a lot of low rpm torque so you can lug them down in high gear and they won't give you a struggle, so downshifting isn't always needed. I'm running my backup trans right now until I can get around to rebuilding my original 3 speed with OD. Let's see, all I need is some parts, and some time, an oh yeah some money....

[Don Coatney]

The squeaking sound you are getting is quite possibly due to worn pedal bushings allowing the sides of the clutch pedal to make contact with the floorboard as the pedal is depressed and released.

If your clutch overcenter spring is adjusted correctly your clutch pedal will move smartly (you might hear it pop to the top) from the mid position to the fully released (top most) position and it will require very little pressure to push the pedal from the midway point to the floor with the clutch fork rod disconnected or removed. A turnbuckle is used to adjust the overcenter spring.

Too much free play is bad and not enough free play is bad. A threaded rod with a lock nut (not a turnbuckle) is used for the free play adjustment.

[greg g]

The adjustment I was speaking of is actually the collar and lock nut on the rod to the throwout fork. In the exploded view they are numbered 6 24 1 and 6 24 3. Loosen the lock nut, turn the collar counter clockwise to affect the adjustment then tighten the lock nut to retain it.

[RobertKB]

As mentioned in one post earlier, could be tired synchros. My '53 Plymouth has a tired tranny but once in third runs great. I tend to slowly double clutch going both up and down with just a few extra RPM. Had the car over 30 years (92 5,000 miles) and it really hasn't got any worse over time. I have a spare tranny but will likely rebuild the original at some point. I also shift into second quite often before going into first or reverse.

[Normspeed]

Don, good call on the screechy squeaking noise. I had that with my P14, I think it was a combination of linkage wear, old body mounts settling and motor mounts settling as well. I slightly enlarged the holes with a Dremel and installed new draft pads which cover the holes when the pedals are up. Easiest temporary cure for my old beater.

[Don Coatney]

Don, good call on the screechy squeaking noise. I had that with my P14, I think it was a combination of linkage wear, old body mounts settling and motor mounts settling as well. I slightly enlarged the holes with a Dremel and installed new draft pads which cover the holes when the pedals are up. Easiest temporary cure for my old beater.

Thanks Norm;

I will be in San Francisco tomorrow afternoon and staying for a while. Any chance for a connection?

[Plymouthy Adams]

Dang Don..this new job you sure scoring a lot of travel...of course that is good otherwise we could not have gotten the e-brake on your car...here I am stuck at home..we had some major rain..ground is saturated..we need the rain but this 98 year old country farm house has a grease trap for the kitchen..guess we all know what that mean..has been a bit slow due to the fact it has been about 5 years since I serviced it..time to get in deep so to speak.

[Normspeed]

I'm in L.A., I was in SF mid December for a meeting but back in the south now. If you get south, holler. I'm in San Gabriel valley, 30 miles east of L.A. and just minutes from any freeway.