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Motor Frozen


Tom Skinner

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Mopar Specialists:

I have a buddy with a 1947 Windsor with a 250.6 6 cylinder motor that will not turn by hand. He removed the head, droped the pan and some connecting rods caps, but it is pretty much frozen.

He PB Blasted it numerous ocassions.

He even tried to jack a wooden stick up into the piston to free it with only

a tiny bit 1/16" movement. My question is do you think the rings are frozen?

How do free it, and go about fixing the problem?

Tom

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Stuck valves can also make it nearly impossible to crank over.

The engine in my truck was so seized up when I got it I had to pull it out and remove the crank with the pistons still in the block. I then could hammer the pistons down with a block of wood and a BIG HAMMER. I then cleaned up the bores as much as possible with a wire brush on a drill. I could then drive the pistons out with a large rubber mallet.

The next task was to free up the valves enough to get them out, and the cam out. I was able to rotate the cam back and forth and gradually moved the valves enough to get the cam out. Then I removed the tappets and drove the valves the rest of the way out with a hammer and a long punch.

A .030" over bore job with new valve guides and seats later and it runs like a top.

Merle

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stuck valves made me ruin an 8CM mercury flathead due to my impatience.

i like PB Blaster, although i have a suspicion that it's really just a kerosene and gasoline mixture.... and speaking of kerosene, lots of guys i've talked to have soaked stuck engines with it and had good results.

having a good supply of hickory blocks and a mallet helps.... from my own experience, pine will break all to pieces and be a mess to clean out of the bore.

i guess the best advice is take it slow!

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My engine was stuck but the guy I bought it from dad it disassenbled before I bought it. He showed me the pistons (or what was left of them). He had to hammer on them until they broke and came out in pieces. A .030" bore job, new pistons, and all wear parts, and my engine now runs great.

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Here's another way that's somewhat complicated but has worked for others;

you need the cylinder head fully installed to try it. Take an old spark plug that fits the head, then remove the ceramic and center electrode. Get a nut with the same threads as a zerk fitting, weld the nut to the gutted spark plug, and install the zerk fitting. Screw this contraption into the cylinder head on a cylinder where both valves are closed. Attach a hand grease gun to the zerk, then pump the cylinder full of grease. The grease gun puts out a couple of hundred PSI, which should then uniformly push on the piston to get it to move.

I've never done this, but I've been told it works.

Let us know your results.

Harold

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just soak it with something and keep trying to move it , some day it will free up. I heard a guy did it this way: connect a long pole or bar to the front of the motor, say, like from the damper pully or crank handle hole, like you would for a bar to turn the engine over, only this one would be about 10 feet long, and hang a wieght (cement block or something) on the end of it. One day the wieght (and bar ) will fall to the ground....engine will be free.........

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If you have the head off, the grease gun trick wont work. Additionally, if the valves are open on that cyldener it wont work. I hate to say this but if after trying a little bit of all the above soaking and nothing else works, you are going to have to get them out in pieces. That probally your best choice: do it the right way the first time.

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  • 8 months later...

I freed up a very frozen Ford 8n tractor by pulling the head, putting 1/2" of Marvel Mystry oil in each cylinder every week or so until all 4 cylinders would pass the oil through the rings in a few days.

I shaved the corners of a 10" 4X4 until it fit in a cylinder. Then I took a sledge hammer to the 4X4 on a piston that was not at TDC. Once I got some movement (1/8" or so), I reversed rotation by smacking a different piston. After a half hour of this, I got full rotation on the crankshaft.

I continued to rotate the crank and used rags to clean cylinders walls until there was no debris left in the cylinder. I put the head back on and it been running fine for 30 years.

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Old thread I know but one way to help is Marvel Mystery oil. Let it soak a few weeks and it should help free things up. Sometimes nothing will work and you have to take the harder approach by shattering or breaking the piston out like someone here mentioned doing. I know with my 251ci (250.6 to be exact) in my 46, even though it turns by hand by the crank pulley, I am still going to put a few drops of Mystery Oil into the cylinders and let it soak for a few weeks. Then start running Marvel Mystery oil in the oil itself. Usually in my old cars I use one quart of Marvel Mystery in my oil so if something is 6 quarts, I use 5 quarts of 10W30 or whatever I use and one quart of Marvel. It's supposed to lube the motor better (less friction) and keep moisture out like SeaFoam does.

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  • 4 months later...

My son in Montana has a very nice Dodge B model COE truck that he would like to get running, but the engine is siezed. He has been soaking it wit various sorts of Panher Pee for nearly three years, and still no joy. We've pulled it around in high gear, pried on righ gear teeth and tried all sorts odf cute tricks. It's still seizd. My guess is that a head gasket went south and antifreeze got into the pistons and rings - mebby even the beaings - and really siezed everything up.

This is not the easiest engine in the world to work on, what with the COE cab sitting on top of everything. Thoght I'd start by pulling the front off and then the timing cover and chain. That will eliminate the valve train from the "siezed" equation, and maby help a little. Then we'll put a socket on the crank and a six foot cheater and see who'se boss.

Yet one other thing I have heard of but never tried is a mixrure of half gasoline an half brake fluid. Soak this in a while, then light it off. The heat exp0ands the rust and metal, and the brake fluid fills up the new voids created by the heat. Mebby bring marshmallows?:)

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My son in Montana has a very nice Dodge B model COE truck that he would like to get running, but the engine is siezed. He has been soaking it wit various sorts of Panher Pee for nearly three years, and still no joy. We've pulled it around in high gear, pried on righ gear teeth and tried all sorts odf cute tricks. It's still seizd. My guess is that a head gasket went south and antifreeze got into the pistons and rings - mebby even the beaings - and really siezed everything up.

This is not the easiest engine in the world to work on, what with the COE cab sitting on top of everything. Thoght I'd start by pulling the front off and then the timing cover and chain. That will eliminate the valve train from the "siezed" equation, and maby help a little. Then we'll put a socket on the crank and a six foot cheater and see who'se boss.

Yet one other thing I have heard of but never tried is a mixrure of half gasoline an half brake fluid. Soak this in a while, then light it off. The heat exp0ands the rust and metal, and the brake fluid fills up the new voids created by the heat. Mebby bring marshmallows?:)

And the local news crew!!! :eek::D

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I have unstuck a few, been lucky so far. Takin your time is the main thing. I used a product called Aero Kroil by Kano, In my opinion it's the best penatrating oil bar none.I've used it on the job for years and I deal with stuck or broken bolts daily. The last flat 6 I freed I pulled the head and valve covers sprayed around the pistons and valves put a sockett on the crank and rocked it back and forth easy. You dont want to force it.Take note of how much it moves now leave let the oil do it's job come by every now and then spray some more rock it a little. I'll then take a block of wood and a hammer and tap easy on each piston. Spray it all down rock it some walk away.Repeat process untill free.Worked for me, took about 3 days just messin with it here and there.Good luck!

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  • 4 months later...

This thread has been soaking for a long time, too. In the meantime, even old guys like me keep learning new tricks. Last week I spoke with a man who has a 52 DeSoto that was stuck. He pulled the plugs, soaked it for a few months, and then tried an approach I never heard of before.

The DeSoto has a starter button on the dash, and he took a good hot 12-volt battery and hooked it up. Each morning he would go to the car and hit the starter button fifty times - bam, bam, bam, and then walk away and let it sit another day. After nearly a month of this treatment, he saw the fan blade begin to move just a little.

The rest is history. He now has it running nicely. It still smokes some from stuck rings, but a few serious heat cycles, and an oil change or two, and I'll bet a milk shake it will live to fight - and mebby sieze up again - another day.

The idea here was that the starter drive and the hot battery worked sorta' like an impact wrench, jarring the flywheel and crank, over and over, until it finally got the message, and came loose.

Like the tractor jockeys say about their old stuff, "It's just stuck lightly.":D

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This thread has been soaking for a long time, too. In the meantime, even old guys like me keep learning new tricks. Last week I spoke with a man who has a 52 DeSoto that was stuck. He pulled the plugs, soaked it for a few months, and then tried an approach I never heard of before.

The DeSoto has a starter button on the dash, and he took a good hot 12-volt battery and hooked it up. Each morning he would go to the car and hit the starter button fifty times - bam, bam, bam, and then walk away and let it sit another day. After nearly a month of this treatment, he saw the fan blade begin to move just a little.

The rest is history. He now has it running nicely. It still smokes some from stuck rings, but a few serious heat cycles, and an oil change or two, and I'll bet a milk shake it will live to fight - and mebby sieze up again - another day.

The idea here was that the starter drive and the hot battery worked sorta' like an impact wrench, jarring the flywheel and crank, over and over, until it finally got the message, and came loose.

Like the tractor jockeys say about their old stuff, "It's just stuck lightly.":D

I wonder what the ring gear on the flywheel looked like after this beating. And how many years of life were taken from the starter after this beating. If the problem with this engine was a stuck valve I believe he could have broken the camshaft with this approach.

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  • 7 years later...

My engine had some stuck valves. After soaking everything for a couple of weeks without success I finally decided to weld nuts to the top of each valve and break them loose with an impact wrench. Yes, I sacrificed the valves, but it sure did work!

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  • 3 weeks later...

Great post Jocko_51_B3B !

I have a 1948 B-1-B with a spare engine which I have started to rebuild and has several exhaust valves frozen to the guides. The one that was frozen partly open I was able to use a large channel lock pliers to rotate back and forth to free up, BUT of course, those in the closed position don't permit grabbing with a pliers. So if you don't mind, I have a few questions relating to your post regarding welding nuts to the top of the valve head to provide a place to grab and twist free.

1. would you mind providing as many details as possible about your weldments: (all around the hex, inside the thread area, etc.)?

2. how large of a size nut did you use?

3. How critical was centering of the nut to minimize shear forces? 

4. What welding system did you use (ie. Stick, MIG, Oxyfuel, etc.)?

5. How readily did the valve face bead accept penetration?

6. Did you end up replacing the offending valve guides along with those valves?

THANK YOU very much for any and all information you would share, I'm determined to save my engine block.

James

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  • 9 months later...

James,

Sorry for taking so long to reply. Just got too busy with other things. Welding the nuts to the valves wasn't rocket science. I just grabbed a few 5/8 or so diameter nuts and stick welded them in two or three spots around the nut perimeters. The valve heads and nuts melted together without a problem. I haven't yet replaced the valve guides because I got working on a different engine, but if it were me, I would replace them without a question. I'm sure MIG welding would work just as well.

Jocko

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