Bbdakota Posted August 10, 2019 Report Share Posted August 10, 2019 I'm looking into what aftermarket aluminum radiator will best fit the 46-48 D24. I have a hi freq TIG and modified plenty aluminum radiators and know I'll have to modify whatever one I get. Champion has 2 that look close as far as the measurements but one measurement not shown on their website is the depth position of the bolting flange. I'm hoping someone here has one of the 2 and can measure where the bolting flange is in reference to either the front side or the back side of the radiator. Part number EC52PLY looks to be the best choice but the height and shape of the tanks are different. Looks like it will fit being it's about 2 inches shorter than my original. Part number CC4749 is a little narrower, easily fixed but the best picture I can find looks like the bolting flange is in the wrong place fwd/aft. Whatever one I buy, I'll document all required modifications here. My original radiator had a leak when I got the car so I took it to a local radiator shop, won't go back, bad experience with that thief. He didn't rod it out like I told him to, he plugged the overflow, said there is a pressure valve in there not working and fixed the leak. That was fine until now. By plugging the overflow, the radiator will be under pressure when hot, 7psi cap. The problem is when it cools, it goes into vacuum. I didn't know until it recently cracked around the fill neck. Opened the cap while under vacuum and the tank around the neck flexed back into position. So it's been "breathing" each heat cycle until the metal cracked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bbdakota Posted August 10, 2019 Author Report Share Posted August 10, 2019 Just for reference, the measurements of my original. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kencombs Posted August 10, 2019 Report Share Posted August 10, 2019 Your radiator cap should have a vacuum breaker valve. there are two radiator cap functions, one is to release excess pressure, the other is to allow air entry under the conditions you describe. info:https://www.freeasestudyguides.com/engine-radiator-cap.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bbdakota Posted August 10, 2019 Author Report Share Posted August 10, 2019 Um. Looks like I have a bad radiator cap. Maybe my best option is to fix the original radiator and replace the cap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bbdakota Posted August 10, 2019 Author Report Share Posted August 10, 2019 I took a good look at the neck of the original radiator, it doesn't appear to be designed to seal at lower lip like a coolant recovery type system. Looks like it's been sealing at the top lip rendering the pressure relief valve on the cap useless. Even if it sealed at the lower lip, the top lip wouldn't let pressure escape. I could replace the neck with a coolant recovery type neck but I still have a 70 year old radiator subject to leak anytime. Although the rest of the radiator seems to have held up fine under abnormal circumstances. There's no telling how much pressure this thing has seen with that cap setup. I'm still favoring a replacement at this point. Anyone have requested measurements? Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plymouthy Adams Posted August 10, 2019 Report Share Posted August 10, 2019 (edited) have you contacted Champion for drawings.....and recall even if you upgrade to a modern pressurized coolant system, you still have concerns with the heater core of your original system. While it has never been subjected to pressure I am sure to some degree it will be able to operate at some moderate pressure level. These vehicles are not really prone to overheat and little needed to do the job. A sealed system of 7 lbs will give you an boost of 21 degrees rise in operation parameters. It is unfortunate that the rad shop owner did what he did to your system..there is zero way to rod to a honey comb core. The closing of the system such as he did and sealing it without ability to breath what else could you expect but fracture. This man seems to know very little except color of money. I have not been to the Champion site, I often use other brand radiators but my mods are also including modern and often larger engines...if not larger, clearly higher output. While this may not be correct, but looking over their products, the do not say 100% but for all practical intent in their advertising the radiators they make for X application will bolt direct for that application. Edited August 10, 2019 by Plymouthy Adams Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bbdakota Posted August 10, 2019 Author Report Share Posted August 10, 2019 I bypassed the heater core but don't remember if it was before or after I had the radiator "fixed ". There was no shutoff valve in the heater hose so it was getting hot inside the car. Around here I don't need a heater. We don't have anywhere we want to take the 48 when it's cold enough to need a heater. The car never runs hot but prolonged driving in August type heat the temp gauge gets to the beginning of the red (I'm guessing maybe 200°) but never boils. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plymouthy Adams Posted August 10, 2019 Report Share Posted August 10, 2019 todays modern cars average a constant 203-205 degrees....I know apples and oranges but certain amount of heat is beneficial. Are you reading this at the rear of the engine where the engine is hottest and the location of your stock sender or at the thermostat where the control and exchange is taking place and is where all modern controls measure the engine for constant state of tune and stoichiometric fuel ratio adj. have you measured the inlet and outlet of the radiator for efficiency...one cannot or should I say should not depend on a single temp sensor as its position is monitoring only one segment of a system...it does not balance out or define other aspects Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bbdakota Posted August 10, 2019 Author Report Share Posted August 10, 2019 Stock temp gauge with the probe in th back of the head. Have not measured inlet vs outlet temps. I do want a pressurized system and would like having a recovery tank. Just not convinced I'd be going in the right direction spending money on the original radiator. I'll either put recovery type fill neck on the original radiator or buy and modify a aluminum radiator. The aluminum radiator is cheap in my opinion. But 10 times the cost of a fill neck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plymouthy Adams Posted August 10, 2019 Report Share Posted August 10, 2019 even if you were to modify the original for look or whatever reasoning.....you will be left using metal of x age and countless heat cycle...and coupled with the flexing left to you by the last rad man....I think for the money and I know my choice would be a modern aluminum. Now in aluminum you have full weld style and combination of weld and epoxy. This may be you only real choice in the long run..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ194950 Posted August 10, 2019 Report Share Posted August 10, 2019 I think I may prefer the EC52PLY mainly as the top rad. connection is easy to find a curved hose to fit as compared to cutting off the top connect on the CC4749 which is the wrong angle and will not work as is. Experience with that rad. in a 47 Ply..? The 3 row model really is overkill as this cools very well as compared to originals. 2 row is plenty- But 3 row is only a few $$ more so why not? ? Just 1 opinion ! DJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bbdakota Posted August 11, 2019 Author Report Share Posted August 11, 2019 (edited) I'm in the mindset I will replace the radiator but I warmed up the car, felt the radiator and it was hot at the top, just warm at the bottom. It's dissipating heat good. It held pressure up until the neck solder let go. Think I'll try replacing the neck with a recovery type neck, add a recovery tank and see what happens. The cost of trying this route is about 14 bucks for the radiator and whatever I decide to use for a recovery tank. So at most I'll be out 14 bucks and a little time since I'll need a recovery tank either way. Edited August 11, 2019 by Bbdakota 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptwothree Posted August 13, 2019 Report Share Posted August 13, 2019 The 3 row model really is overkill as this cools very well as compared to originals. 2 row is plenty- But 3 row is only a few $$ more so why not? A 3 row on my '52 won't let me use the stock type fan..too thick. Have to go with a pusher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bbdakota Posted August 13, 2019 Author Report Share Posted August 13, 2019 5 hours ago, ptwothree said: A 3 row on my '52 won't let me use the stock type fan..too thick. Have to go with a pusher Certainly something I was concerned with, I do want to use the original fan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bbdakota Posted August 13, 2019 Author Report Share Posted August 13, 2019 I ordered a ec52ply. Decided I'm not going to be able to trust the old radiator and the new one should be more efficient. I'll post necessary modifications needed to make it fit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptwothree Posted August 13, 2019 Report Share Posted August 13, 2019 You might want to rethink using a fan that's almost 70 yrs old. They do suffer from fatigue and can easily sail a blade thru the hood, inner fender, radiator or you. Iv'e had to repair an inner fender because of this. I'm using a pusher electric fan on mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hi_volt Posted August 16, 2019 Report Share Posted August 16, 2019 I'm considering changing my old radiator, which is in unknown condition, to an aluminum one in my P15. I want to keep the stock cooling fan and keep all of the mounting brackets original if possible. Looking through all of the threads on radiators, I haven't seen a post where someone has just been able to bolt one in. It seems that the closest match would be the Champion CC4749 with the 90 degree top connection, and then cutting off the 90 degree section. Has anyone done that, and will the radiator clear the fan and mount to the original brackets? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ194950 Posted August 16, 2019 Report Share Posted August 16, 2019 Just measured a P-15 clearance for you. This 47 Ply. has the Same champion rad. you mention but has 16" electric fan in front of it. Purchased with a different electric fan and no motor driven fan. So I measured from the radiator fins to the front side of the water pump face which is 2-3/8" between the two. Should be close with stock fan but might work fine. I think stock setup is very close originally, is yours?. Measure from your pump pulley face toward the forward most edge of the fan blade to see on your p-15. Hope that info tells you what your asking, Also, holes in new rad. matched pretty well ,only two needed slight opening toward the sides. Yes the neck needs to be altered as you said. DJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hi_volt Posted August 16, 2019 Report Share Posted August 16, 2019 Thanks! The clearance from my stock radiator fins to the water pump is just about 2-3/8" as well. The stock fan blades get as close as about 1-1/2" away from the radiator fins at the bottom of the radiator - their closest point. I should probably check the dimensions of the CC4749 in relation it its mounting bracket to make sure it clears the fan blades on the engine side and the horn bracket on the grille side. I don't mind having to make some simple adapters, but I'd like to keep my horns original as well as the cooling fan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HotRodTractor Posted August 17, 2019 Report Share Posted August 17, 2019 I feel like I just read somewhere that someone was sending Champion an old radiator to get the outlet made correctly. In any case the aluminum radiator works well in my P15 - I didn't install it, but I think it is a Champion. If I dig through Don's threads I'm sure the info is hiding in there (or his Photobucket). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Elder Posted August 17, 2019 Report Share Posted August 17, 2019 I do believe that Don made alterations to the upper outlet in order to make his rad work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HotRodTractor Posted August 17, 2019 Report Share Posted August 17, 2019 10 minutes ago, Frank Elder said: I do believe that Don made alterations to the upper outlet in order to make his rad work. I believe that to be correct without going through threads and pictures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bbdakota Posted August 17, 2019 Author Report Share Posted August 17, 2019 2 minutes ago, HotRodTractor said: I believe that to be correct without going through threads and pictures. As I recall reading his post, he just cut the mitered cut off straight and found a radiator hose with the appropriate molded angle. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hi_volt Posted August 17, 2019 Report Share Posted August 17, 2019 (edited) Well, it appears that the CC4749 is pretty much unobtainum unless I want to pay $400-$800. Seems that they used to go for around $225 but every distributor is out of stock. I guess I'll keep my old radiator for a bit until I see some stock come in. Edited August 17, 2019 by hi_volt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Buchanan Posted August 17, 2019 Report Share Posted August 17, 2019 35 minutes ago, hi_volt said: Well, it appears that the CC4749 is pretty much unobtainum unless I want to pay $400-$800. Seems that they used to go for around $225 but every distributor is out of stock. I guess I'll keep my old radiator for a bit until I see some stock come in. https://www.jegs.com/i/Champion-Cooling-Systems/166/CC4749/10002/-1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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