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what to do about hard to find front brake parts/manual disk brake?


mburtis

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New around here but I bought a 49 plymouth special deluxe the other day and now am now starting to dig into it with the goal of getting it back on the road. Car was a project that the owner lost interest in for about three previous owners, so hasn't been on the road in some time. Right now the car is basically all original with the flathead 6 and three speed. I have been tearing into the brake system lately and it needs a complete rebuild. Haven't taken the rear drums off yet, but the front shoe lining just crumbled and appeared to be stuck to the shoe with double sided tape, and one front drum has a huge groove in it probably at least a 16th deep, front wheel cylinders rusted, about what i was expecting. 

 

The master cylinder and wheel cylinders are no problem, local napa can get those. Found the shoes online (expensive but available) or i could figure out how to reline them but seems like the front drums are hard to come by and likely really expensive. This brings me to a sort of impass. My intention is to drive this car a lot, year round and I live in Wyoming. Not exactly a parade car, so I really don't want to have to always worry about wearing out hard to find brake parts. Preferably i would rather keep it original but due to parts availability I am contemplating other options.

 

Seems the wheel bearings are pretty standard sizes so disk swaps are pretty common. Are people around here running the front disks with a manual master cylinder? Im normally not a real big fan of disk brake swaps or power brake swaps but disks may be the easiest. Likely will investigate adding a dual  master cylinder and building a bracket to remount the pedals anyways. Also been browsing through various car wheel bearing sizes and brake parts to see if maybe a later cars drums could be adapted (may be able to adapt bigger or wider brakes). Seems it could be possible however it would require a lot of trail and error to get parts to fit right, adapting the backing plates and a lot of other little details that would take a long time to figure out. 

 

Just looking for opinions on whether finding stock parts is worth it and how well the disk set ups work without adding a power booster. 

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there are many BUY IT NOW kits swap to disc mentioned here from various suppliers, there are a couple DIY from items you collect at the auto salvage yard or if you wish across the counter for same application as found in the yares….  As you are new, it would be a very good idea for you to do a search of the forum on disc brakes and read, read read and get an idea of what is involved in work, initial cost and proven workable mix and match of components....they are also many and various...other will more than not chirp there findings to assist...but again...not all kits are equal, but most are very doable upgrades....the search will bring you up to speed rather quickly I think.

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The brake shoes are not that hard to get.  I have serveral cross reference catalogs that refer to brakes, wheel cylinders, transmissions, autolite electrical and tune up parts speedometer cable. Send me your more email and I will send you my catalog listing.

Also would suggest that you get a service manual and alsoparts manual for your car they tell you a lot of great info on how to keep the car running.

 

Rich hartung

Desoto1939@aol.com

cell 484-431-8157

 

live near Philadelphia PA

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Do a search on here on dual master cylinder.     I used a Mustang II non power MC on my 48 Dodge.   Kept original pedal, etc.

I used Ford shoe linings to redo my original braked shoes, using the rivet process.

There should be plenty of good original parts available, with so many people going with disc setups now....

 

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Per memory only-1949 Plymouth front (only) brake drums were/are a one year - Plymouth only item, which may make replacements hard to find.

 

I will check for sure later or tomorrow, but I had some 50 Ply. brake drums available at one time and I was checking to see what else they may fit when I saw the info on the 49 only.

 

DJ

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I am aware of a couple of the disk brake swap kits available (ie rustyhope, scarebird, etc.). Ive never felt the need for disk brakes like some do but if it increases longevity due to parts availability... I would like to hear from anyone using a manual master cylinder on a disk setup. I have heard mixed thoughts on it in general through the years due to drum brakes being self energizing, disk systems requiring much higher pressure, etc, etc. 

 

I considered trying to reline the shoes, got several buddies who have old obscure cars too so might be a useful skill to have. Would be interested in any recommendations for possible friction material. I have heard that for these cars you want the older style softer woven style friction material vs the harder ceramic type stuff typical of modern shoes. May have to find a set of original shoes to reline, as the ones that are on the car do not have the rivet holes or drill the existing ones. 

 

I will have to do some digging at the parts stores and see if i cant come up with a drum that i can modify to rivet onto the old hubs, luckily i got a machinist buddy with access to some very large equipment so modifications are possible.  Discussed welding the drums up with a welder buddy of mine, the engineer in me has a bad feeling it wouldn't work very well and even if it did may not provide very good performance, on the other hand the industrial mechanic side of me says it may be worth a shot. 

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20 hours ago, DJ194950 said:

Per memory only-1949 Plymouth front (only) brake drums were/are a one year - Plymouth only item, which may make replacements hard to find.

 

I will check for sure later or tomorrow, but I had some 50 Ply. brake drums available at one time and I was checking to see what else they may fit when I saw the info on the 49 only.

 

DJ

 

Well my info was close but not 100%.

Front brake drums for your car are Plymouth only BUT 1949 And 1950 fit. No other cars of any brand work per my Classic edition of Hollander interchange manual.

My extra 1950 brake drums were already worn to the +60 max wear and slightly rough so I nfinally donated them to the alleyway metal scroungers.

 

DJ

Edited by DJ194950
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6 hours ago, DJ194950 said:

 

Well my info was close but not 100%.

Front brake drums for your car are Plymouth only BUT 1949 And 1950 fit. No other cars of any brand work per my Classic edition of Hollander interchange manual.

My extra 1950 brake drums were already worn to the +60 max wear and slightly rough so I nfinally donated them to the alleyway metal scroungers.

 

DJ

 this might explain why you cant find them at the parts stores like you can the rest of the parts 

 

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forgot to mention that luckily the car came with a factory service manual lots of neat special tools in there that i will have to build. Would like to keep the original brakes just because they are a little different and would be fun to tinker on. Always been a ford guy so having to learn everything about plymouth

 

 

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Front disc brakes are one of those things that you may not need until you need them, especially if you drive it a lot as I do. I did the drum brake thing for a few years but eventually gave in. I installed the Rustyhope kit on the front of mine and retained the stock master cylinder and no power booster. All I had to do to the master was pull the internal check valve out.  I did also go to a newer rear axle with modern drum brakes and the car stops extremely well with a light pedal. Total costs for the front discs was less than rebuilding the drums and I’m not concerned with originality. 

 

Adam

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20 hours ago, Adam H P15 D30 said:

Front disc brakes are one of those things that you may not need until you need them, especially if you drive it a lot as I do. I did the drum brake thing for a few years but eventually gave in. I installed the Rustyhope kit on the front of mine and retained the stock master cylinder and no power booster. All I had to do to the master was pull the internal check valve out.  I did also go to a newer rear axle with modern drum brakes and the car stops extremely well with a light pedal. Total costs for the front discs was less than rebuilding the drums and I’m not concerned with originality. 

 

Adam

I did basicly the same as Adam , only on my truck , and after rebuilding the drum brakes . Brake fade is very real and scary . I sold my front drums and that helped pay a big portion of the cost for the conversion . I have had to do two emergency stops with the discs and some quick stops at highway speeds . 

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My 39 Dodge coupe has a disc brake kit from Master Power Brake,  a huge improvement over the stock drums.  For a master cylinder I used  I used a non power disc drum set up  for a Mopar product  like a Fury or a Polara, from Napa.  Rear brakes are 11" x 2" drums on an 8 3/4 rear end.  Car stops very well without a lot of pedal effort.  The master 

cylinder is mounted on the firewall like a modern car.  In my opinion, the disc brake kit is the best thing I've ever done to the car.  You can save the stock parts, and if you sell the car, the new buyer has everything to convert back to stock if desired.  The cheapest new car on the road has four wheel disc stop-o-matic brakes.  Your stock drums are fine untill the seventeen year old girl texting almost misses her turn, and slams on her Kia's brakes to make a turn.  You will hit her.

 

                                                                                                                                                                             brian b

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