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Questions on Truck O Matic in the 53 1/2 ton


888

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I've been looking for an older Dodge truck for quite a while, I've had a number of 89 to 93 Cummins trucks and an 84 D100, but nothing older. 

 

I came across a barn find 53 5 window 1/2 ton that has been sitting since 1973, it died somehow or another and the farmer parked it and that was that.  Plates are still on it so it seems legit. 

 

Lots of surface rust but pretty good overall except for a orange sized hole in the front corner of the floor by the drivers side cab mount and some deep rust at the front fender/supports.  I have some concerns about what's hiding behind the bolt on plates above the running boards as well.   If it wasn't for the fenders, I could pretty much just leave the body alone otherwise.  It's all there down to the hubcaps.  Engine is locked up but the plugs are in and I'm told no one has tried to force it. 

 

I saw 3 pedals in the photos and assumed it was a 3 on the tree but it's badged a Truck O Matic and I saw a weird torque converter at the end of the driveshaft.  I thought he wanted a lot for it for what it was and I wanted to check out what exactly the Truck O Matic was so I passed until I could figure out what that was.  I found the service manual online and after reading the description of how it worked, I determined it's not something I'd want to drive so I'd like to swap in a conventional manual 3 or 4 speed from that era.  

 

I told the seller as a courtesy that the Truck O Matic would have to come out and the engine was iffy so I was going to pass.  These guys flip barn finds as a secondary business so I thought that was the end of it but he invited me to make an offer.  It has been on Craigslist so long that the ad expired so maybe they will cut a good deal on it but.....

 

Million dollar question which probably means the difference between a project that may have a chance and a PROJECT that would probably never leave my barn:

What all has to change to make this swap?   Driveshaft, transmission, bellhousing, shift linkage?   Rear end geared differently? 

How difficult is it to find a donor for the parts I need?  

What am I getting myself into?

Thanks!

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A Truck-O-Matic would be cool to have. It’s essentially the M6 transmission behind a Fluid Drive coupler. The same setup that Chrysler, DeSoto, and Dodge cars used under different names. Prestomatic, Tip-Toe Shift, Gyromatic. It may have been a 1 year only in the trucks. Shortly after that the automatics came out.  As you may have read, it’s a 4 speed trans with semi-automatic shifts between 1st/2nd, or 3rd/4th. You have to manually shift between the low and high range gears. For most driving around you could put it into high range and drive it like an automatic vehicle. Only need the clutch to get into gear initially, or to shift ranges or directions. 

 

If you could get the engine running you could probably just swap in a standard 3 speed behind the Fluid Drive. That was also an option in the trucks. Or, sometimes you can come across a complete drive train and swap out the engine trans combo. As you can guess, the bell housing and everything would have to be swapped out to remove the FD. The axle can remain as is unless you want different gearing. You can always find a 3.90 or 3.73 diff out of a car from that era that will swap right into the axle housing. 

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On 6/18/2019 at 8:02 PM, Merle Coggins said:

If you could get the engine running you could probably just swap in a standard 3 speed behind the Fluid Drive. That was also an option in the trucks. Or, sometimes you can come across a complete drive train and swap out the engine trans combo. As you can guess, the bell housing and everything would have to be swapped out to remove the FD. The axle can remain as is unless you want different gearing. You can always find a 3.90 or 3.73 diff out of a car from that era that will swap right into the axle housing. 

Thanks for the response.  I did read up on the Truck O Matic and there were some diagrams and troubleshooting included and it all added up to why I always get manual transmissions in everything I own.  It looked way simpler than the automatics and usually more fun to drive.

 

I've been doing some research since you mentioned the M6 and it mentions a fluid drive coupling attached to the flywheel and conventional clutch mounted in tandem.   I saw something attached to the end of the tranny tailshaft as well that looked like a torque converter.  That wasn't part of the Truck O Matic? 

 

So the conventional 3 speed manual transmission from that era can mount with the fluid coupling in place?   Does it require a special clutch from that era to clear the coupling?   Will any later manual trannies fit?  I'd really like a 4 speed manual on the floor if I could find one

 

I really appreciate anything you can tell me!  The truck looks like a pretty solid unit but unless I can find a solution for the Truck O Matic with a good donor pool, it will probably just sit in my barn forever and I'll kick myself for buying it. 

IMG_1804[1].JPG

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On the tail shaft you’d have a parking brake. The Fluid Drive is like a self contained torque converter, without the torque conversion. It’s a simple fluid coupling without any toque multiplication. They reduce shock loads on the drive train and allow driving around town in 2nd or 3rd gear using only brake and gas. The clutch, which is on the output of the FD coupler, is still needed for shifting. The trucks also had an option for a standard 3 speed column shift, or 4 speed floor shift, behind the FD. The only difference from a standard clutch setup is that they’ll have a longer input shaft for the FD. To change over to a standard clutch setup you’ll have to change bell housing and all. 

My truck is equipped with FD and a 4 speed. In 1950 they were still using spur gear 4 speeds, so my trans doesn’t have synchronizers for shifting. I still have to double clutch my shifts. When driving around town, up to 30-35 MPH I usually just leave it in 3rd and drive it like a sluggish automatic. If speeds pick up a bit more I’ll double clutch and shift up to 4th. 

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28 minutes ago, 888 said:

.   I saw something attached to the end of the tranny tailshaft as well that looked like a torque converter.  That wasn't part of the Truck O Matic? 

 

So the conventional 3 speed manual transmission from that era can mount with the fluid coupling in place?   Does it require a special clutch from that era to clear the coupling?   Will any later manual trannies fit?  I'd really like a 4 speed manual on the floor if I could find one

 

As

 

 

That thing on the tailshaft is the parking brake.  Little internal expanding drum brake.  Some Mopars have eternal contracting band brakes instead.

 

Trucks Came with 3sp and four speed granny gear transmissions behind the fluid drive setup. But the main drive gear for that application are unique to the fluid drive.

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7 hours ago, Merle Coggins said:

On the tail shaft you’d have a parking brake. The Fluid Drive is like a self contained torque converter, without the torque conversion. It’s a simple fluid coupling without any toque multiplication. They reduce shock loads on the drive train and allow driving around town in 2nd or 3rd gear using only brake and gas. The clutch, which is on the output of the FD coupler, is still needed for shifting. The trucks also had an option for a standard 3 speed column shift, or 4 speed floor shift, behind the FD. The only difference from a standard clutch setup is that they’ll have a longer input shaft for the FD. To change over to a standard clutch setup you’ll have to change bell housing and all. 

My truck is equipped with FD and a 4 speed. In 1950 they were still using spur gear 4 speeds, so my trans doesn’t have synchronizers for shifting. I still have to double clutch my shifts. When driving around town, up to 30-35 MPH I usually just leave it in 3rd and drive it like a sluggish automatic. If speeds pick up a bit more I’ll double clutch and shift up to 4th. 

Thanks very much for the info, I've never seen a parking brake like that. 

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7 hours ago, kencombs said:

That thing on the tailshaft is the parking brake.  Little internal expanding drum brake.  Some Mopars have eternal contracting band brakes instead.

 

Trucks Came with 3sp and four speed granny gear transmissions behind the fluid drive setup. But the main drive gear for that application are unique to the fluid drive.

Thanks!

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My 52 B-3-C has a fluid drive 4 speed and I use it here in Southern California as my daily driver. They are great trucks and honestly the FD is a nice feature to have in heavy traffic. Your Truck o Matic is a fairly rare option and a great conversation piece. With a good running flathead I would not be afraid of using it. I have put around 20,000 miles on my FD since putting it back on the road and I am glad I left it as it was built. Dodge did a good job on these trucks. If you don't mess about with them too much the driving experience is a lot of fun. Basically they are old work trucks...... and very functional time machines .

Enjoy

Jeff

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Yup, what Jeff said...

I just made a 300 mile trek to Minnesota for the Back to the 50’s car show. I had many opportunities, going through multiple small towns, to sit at red lights with my foot on the brake, and not on the clutch. Light goes green, mash the gas and go. It’s especially nice in stop and go traffic. 

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I appreciate the information and responses. 

 

There is some significant rust in the front fenders at the brace mounts and in front of the cab doors and it appears like the front end is one piece?  I'd like to leave it all original but the fenders need attention so I'd probably have to paint it if I replaced that metal.  As mentioned, there are some other concerns about rust in the cab floors and the areas by the running boards/steps etc.  It's an Ohio truck and it was on the road for 20 years before being parked in a barn for the last 45 years so it's got rust from driving and sitting.It needs glass in a few areas as well, I'm not sure how much is available aftermarket for these trucks, I know I couldn't find front fenders on the web. 

 

I had to make a decision so I told the guy I was going to pass.  He wanted $5,500 for it, he asked me to make an offer and I really didn't know if I wanted it regardless of price so I declined to make an offer.  He's relisted it and dropped it to $4,700 which is still a lot more than I am comfortable with considering the farmer parked it for something terminal and too expensive for him to fix which would be probably engine or drive train.  

 

Thanks again for the info. 

IMG_1803[1].JPG

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That is a quite high asking price for a non-running truck with a questionable engine. I don’t blame you for backing out. 

The rust spot on the fenders is quite common on these trucks and not difficult to repair. But you would loose the patina in that spot if you want to preserve that. 

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2 hours ago, Merle Coggins said:

That is a quite high asking price for a non-running truck with a questionable engine. I don’t blame you for backing out. 

The rust spot on the fenders is quite common on these trucks and not difficult to repair. But you would loose the patina in that spot if you want to preserve that. 

Thanks for the opinion on the price.  I rarely see one of them come up for sale but I did see a nice running older restoration for $7,200 that was on CL for a really long time so that told me this was high.  It was much worse in person than in the ad, I thought maybe $3k tops after I saw it. 

 

I would like to keep the patina so the fender repair would create a problem there. 

 

Here's the ad with more photos. 

 

https://limaohio.craigslist.org/cto/d/kettlersville-1953-dodge-pickup/6914671704.html

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11 hours ago, kencombs said:

Wayyy to high IMO.  Keep looking, they are still out there at more reasonable prices.  Maybe not the rare truck-0-matic though.

Thanks, I'd rather have a conventional standard, appreciate the opinion!   Just don't see them around Ohio any more so I thought it was worth looking at. 

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10 hours ago, Los_Control said:

I paid $1800 for my avatar, and it runs but still needs lots of work.

I just gave away a 52 and a 49 truck, went for free to a good home, hope they get one running.

That's a good reference, thanks.  Gotta be more options down your way than up here in the rust belt. 

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  • 1 year later...

888 the M6 trans and fluid drive coupler by its nature is a rugged old slug.

Unique yes, but hard to get yourself out of its own way, real dogs off the line.

Yes you have low range, drive to like 12 mph take foot off gas and trans upshifts to lowrange 2.

Same idea in high range, i have driven a few cars with this setup and while a novelty, way to much of a dog for my wants.

Yes you could go to a regular dry clutch and a 3 spd, overdrive and other transmissions too.

You could keep the fluid coupler and go 3 or 4 speed truck trans too.

Heck you coukd go 25 inch flathead and dry clutch setup too.

All is your choice.

In my opinion the M5/6 while an interesting trans, is not my idea of fun cruising..

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