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motor oil


derbydad276

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ok.... I know probably has been posted before

what oil is the current favorite among everyone ?

I taking the 53 on a 800 mile trip next week figured I had better change the oil 

 

20 w 50 ?

15w40?

10w40 

30w ?

 

I plan on using ZDP additive  

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15 minutes ago, Plymouthy Adams said:

many folks get excited about getting a different car and forget to ask the owner what diet the engine is on.....do you have a means to ask the PO this at this time.

I think the kid used 10w40 in it ... he was also using lead additive in the gas... not needed...

I have the owners manual.. and the factory repair manual ...

engine oil has come light years ahead since both books were written...

I'm leaning towards Lucas 20w50 for warm weather

 https://lucasoil.com/products/hot-rod-high-performance

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How has the oil pressure been? Going to a thicker oil might not be the best idea because it will be harder to get to the bearings. Does it smoke oil? You tend to go that thick of an oil jump when your on your last legs. These motors were designed around 30w straight oil. 10w-40w should be good for it. If oil pressure is low, that's when I think of going to a thicker oil like the 20w-50

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Oil is very specific but sold to the very subjective.  Personally, 10-40W, Amazon Basics high mileage Semi-Synth with ZDP additive.  But only as of the last change, previously it's been mostly SAE 30W non detergent oil.  I just got tired of oil technology from the 50s.  

This is in the all original car, but she's been a smoker for years now, it's a terrible habit she can't seem to shake.  

 

Also, I've never trusted Lucas or any other 'additive' maker, this includes the current ZDP I use.  Amazon Basics comes from the Warren Oil Company LLC, http://www.warrenoil.com/  I'm not pushing this oil on anyone, but I know it's the first question you'll ask.

 

These days engines are designed for certain oils and oils in that grade and rating tend to improve faster than the engineering in the engines.  It would be a matter of someone digging up the past to see if that even crossed their minds in 1952 when Edna was made.

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Well after many years of due consideration I have arrived at the following conclusion which I posted on the POC face book page in the discussion of the same question.

 

We should run a cocktail of lubricants that honor the past, wonder at the unknown, and utilize modern technology.  So let's mix up a quart on non detergent SAE 30 to full fill the factory lubrication chart.  Then blend in a quart of 10W-30 detergent oil because some high school pump jockey added one in the 60's after being completely distracted by a pretty young lady's mini skirt.  Then  because it smokes a bit a quart of 50w and a can of STP or Motor Honey, then a quart of new high mileage 10w40 with seal conditioners and friction reducers.  And let's add a pint of Marvell Mystery Oil because it's good for upper cylinders.  And maybe a can of Rislone cuz you thought you heard some valve noise. This still leaves room for somee Bardhall, Bars Leak seal conditioners and Whynns Friction Proofing. Then put the rest of the MMO in the gas with a can of Heat dry gas because we need to deal with the ethanol problem by adding some more ethanol.  If there is any thing left on the bench just feel free to top up every hundred miles or so.

 

And here is a completely radical thought for older engines that have good compression but smoke and use a quart of oil ever hundred miles or so..

We are all aware of sludge build up in the oil pans of old non detergent oiled engines.  Guess what?? It's normal, it's how it's supposed work.  Oil circulates some of it 15% or so goes through the filter,most doesn't.  So the carbon and contaminants, and little pieces of metal from friction wear settle to the bottom of the pan and accumulate as sludge and goo.  This is good as long as the level of the goo stays below the pickup strainer all is dandy.  And as long as some comes out when you drain the oil at change so much better.

 

It works as designed with the products available at the time.  However it doesn't all come out and time and distance may allow the sludge to build up enough to affect the amount of liquid oil that can be put in the pan before it's considered over filled. What does an engine do when it is over filled?? It burns it, is sucks it by valve guides and expells it under pressure past seals and gaskets.  Suppose then the only reason your oil pan gasket is leaking is that there is oil above it when clearly it should be below it. So now as it sits with no circulation it weeps oil past the gasket.  Some folks my father stupid but he may have been stupid like a fox. When his cars got to around 50000 miles, he never put in more oil than it took to bring it to the add line on the dip stick, he never added oil till the level went to a pint or so under that mark,  no smoke no leaks, hmmmm?  My uncle who checked and added oil every half tank of gas had a Pontiac with similar miles had a car that leaked and wanted oil according to the dip stick every 100 miles or so.  While Dad was adding a couple pints between changes

 

Ok, step down from the soap box and put the jar of motor honey back on the bench...

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27 minutes ago, greg g said:

Ok, step down from the soap box and put the jar of motor honey back on the bench...

 

Exactly, subjective, and thus I agree completely.  Also a fantastic example of why oil type questions are really hard for online forums.  We're all just dudes and gals doing what we want for fun and try to use our technical experience to help others.  There's no prerequisite for opinions or anecdotal findings and no resume posted with profiles.  But there are no wrong answers, but if you're lucky maybe some good smart ass sarcastic ones. ?

 

Also, our projects, like our pets get only the best.  The best is completely based on what we can find for information we'll accept as factual.  Even if it's an anecdotal test from a completish stranger.  As long as you're happy with what you choose, that's all we care about. ?

 

Also, I'm very aware I'm currently facing the choir. ?

Edited by bigdaisy19k
Forgot something
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So let's consider your vehicles let's assume Edna is a high mileage car with an unknown service and maintanence history. If it runs, I would three tests to determine basic engine condition.  A cold dry compression test.  Remove the plugs attach a compression gauge taking care not to insert any further than the spark plugs go in. Crank the engine till the highest reading is attianed and record the reading. My guess is it wine between 70 -80  do each cylinder in order front to back. The fdifference between highest of 10% or so is normal. Greater difference may indicate a problem with that cylinder.  For step two squirt about a teaspoon full of oil down the sparkplug hole and repeat the test again recording the readings, they should be higher as the oil will call the rings to the cylinder wals allowing for more pressure.  Here you should be around 100 to 130psi.  If you have a cylinder that doesn't increase, you can assume that cylinder has worn rings, or in cars with no or very low readings that don't improve you can suspect stick or leaking valves but you will know which needs attention.  Have seen these engines run just find on fifty pounds of compression, run fine but have no power for acceleartion or climbing grades.

 

Now for the vacuum gauge.  Attach the gauge to the intake manifold there should be a plug meant to power the vacuum wipers on older models, the plug will come out and allow the gauge to be hooked up through an adapter fitting that should be in with the gauge. With the engine running at idle 450 to 500 rpms fully up to operating temp. The gauge should show pull of 18 to 22 inches of Mercury, and be steady. When you rev the engine it should drop to zero to five inches but sna back to the higher reading when back at idle. This would be a sign of a healthy engine.  If you have a low reding or a needle that flicks around, these readings can be interpreted to indicate certain problems.  For a good rticle on these readings go to the Secondchncegarage web site check out the vacuum gauge section.

 

When you get these done we can proceed with a reasonable investigation f what the goo in the oil pan consits of and how to go forward. 

 

Report back with your results.  There is a method to this madness. 

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Oh, Greg I get you, I just hope you don't think I was slighting your personal experience when I mentioned anecdotal results.  I mean anecdotal is just a term for experience we can't confirm ourselves, it doesn't mean it's not true.  Just unconfirmed by the guy on the other end of the magic keyboard argument device, but isn't that how all personal experience works?  My point was for derbydad276, he can do what he likes for whatever reason he chooses.  But we hope he doesn't mind our personal input and finds it useful.

 

I really enjoyed the suggested testing, I'll for sure save it for later.  Are you sure you don't do technical writing for a living?

 

Personally, I'm almost scared to put a compression gauge on Edna, I'm afraid it's going to read in dollar signs. ?  With the white coming from the breather tube a swiss piston worries me more than rings.  She doesn't use oil like you'd think.  But I definitely agree about crud in the pan and oil levels and oil pan leaks.  For now I'm leaving the car as it is, we don't take it out much and it's certainly no parade car.  

 

 

I hope this reads right, I was sincere about the technical writing, it was pretty good for providing direction.

Edited by bigdaisy19k
There's no tone in text.
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my only opinion, worth exactly what you paid for it.

These old engines had a very small selection of options when they were made ... 30 weight seems to be the most common.

Todays oils are way ahead of the curve, compared to the 1950's.

I am only yard driving my truck at this point, changed the oil twice since waking up the engine, using castrol gtx 10/40

I figure it is 5 times better then anything available at the time, and will work for me today. I also run the same oil in my 350 sbc.

 

With that being said, We inherited the wife's mother, 1993 dodge caravan. The father inlaw was running the same 10/40 Castrol in it, and he said it used a little bit of oil.

We drove it 1800 miles on fresh oil change, WA > TX, and it was a quart low. I switched the oil to 5/30, and it no longer uses oil in between 3k mile oil changes..

The car simply likes the thinner oil better and told us what it wants. ...... Possible that we changed the name of the car, father inlaw named it "The *******"

We changed her name to , "Lady Bell"

 

Guess my point is, we can ask, we can try, but time and experience and a little experimentation will lead us to the answer.

Anything you use today, will be better then what we had then.

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Blow by vapors coming from the breather cap after shut down is pretty normal for high mileage engines with no positive crankcase ventilation.  And alot of it is due to water vapor from condensation build up from doing a lot of low speed short trips where the coolant gets warm but the block stays cool.Gett her up to temp take her for a 20 to 40 mile run at a good clip as long as you have good operating temp 170 to 190, cruising oil pressure of 30 plus enjoy the drive, smile and wave more and have fun.

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For Daisy, you mentioned your cars are both Chryslers. Do they have bypass style filters tin can looking thing with two steel tubes attached, or full flow a cast canister bolted directly to the block?  The bypass style only get about 15% of total of circulating oil, the full flow gets all of it.  Both have replaceble elements and do the same job only differently and can have a bearing on your oil choice. 

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Running detergent oil in an engine that has not been running for it's previous life can be a problem in that when doing its job, breaks up the sludge and deposits and transports them to the filter.  With the full flow system,all of that is being passed through the filter, which is good. Until the filter gets clogged, then all of it gets circulated back through the engine, which is not good.  So the consideration to change to detergent oil, might make an investment in a bunch of filter elements, worth while which would be changed frequently to get the stuff out of the engine.  Dropping the oil pan will help get a lot out, but deposits in other areas of the oil circulation circuit,, can still hold a lot of deposits.  Not saying you shouldn't do it but to be forwarned of the situation before you do it. If these are limited use vehicles, you can appreciate the length of time it might take to get the old nasty out of the engines.

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I feel you Greg, the whole process would have been a lot cheaper if these filters didn't cost so much, lol.  But it's a good cautionary tail, be careful with additives, even seafoam in the oil will clean a lot of crud out in a hurry and put it all in the pan/filter.  You only need a plugged pick-up tube for a few moments to lunch the bearings.

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