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Head stud torque?


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I'm putting my 230 Dodge engine together for my '54 truck.  It has a Felton aluminum head which was machined to "flat" with not much removed.  The manuals do not reference torque recommendations for aluminum heads-only stock heads..

 

The head studs, washers, and nuts are new ARP stuff.  Any ideas on a torque value for my project?

 

Thanks!

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Marty Bose a member here told me he learned on his old cars 230 with a Edmund's alum. head and ARP studs/washers/nuts  to torque them to 55 lbs. with a good light lube on the threads/ washers and nuts.

 

He sold his 47 Plymouth Bus. Cpe. to a friend of mine, a year or so ago now, but I still see Marty  drops the forum from time to time.

 

DJ

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Do you have the proper sequence at to which order to tighten in?  Do you know that a retorque is necessary after the engine has run through a heat cycle? Are you aware of the levels of torque to apply in cycles to full torque?

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To all interested in this info, I would suggest a PM to martybose on this forum to get all of his info.

 

Sorry, but I only asked Marty the torque used as we removed a couple of studs and resealed them as the were leaking coolant.

 

DJ

Edited by DJ194950
correction for marty's sign on & PM
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18 hours ago, greg g said:

Do you have the proper sequence at to which order to tighten in?

Do you know that a retorque is necessary after the engine has run through a heat cycle?

Are you aware of the levels of torque to apply in cycles to full torque?

 

Yes to all of the above.  Thanks for the help.

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On 5/29/2019 at 1:54 PM, DJ194950 said:

Marty Bose a member here told me he learned on his old cars 230 with a Edmund's alum. head and ARP studs/washers/nuts  to torque them to 55 lbs. with a good light lube on the threads/ washers and nuts.

 

He sold his 47 Plymouth Bus. Cpe. to a friend of mine, a year or so ago now, but I still see Marty  drops the forum from time to time.

 

DJ

 

I also used ARP studs and nuts and the value of 55 ft-lbs sounds about right, although I would recommend checking with ARP technical. They are pretty helpful when you call...

 

A set of studs should come with a wee packet of ARP thread lubricant, which is good shite!

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  • 6 months later...
On 6/1/2019 at 11:38 AM, John-T-53 said:

 

I also used ARP studs and nuts and the value of 55 ft-lbs sounds about right, although I would recommend checking with ARP technical. They are pretty helpful when you call...

 

A set of studs should come with a wee packet of ARP thread lubricant, which is good shite!

JT, which ARP studs did you use?  I ordered a kit and it appears that its for a slant 6 and not enough studs in the kit.

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On ‎12‎/‎16‎/‎2019 at 8:48 AM, 40desoto said:

JT, which ARP studs did you use?  I ordered a kit and it appears that its for a slant 6 and not enough studs in the kit.

 

At the time that I dealt with ARP, there were no kits sold for the flathead Mopar engine. I called their hotline and we figured out what I needed based on the dimensions of the stock head bolts. This is the same situation for any bolt, stud that you need that's not listed in a lit. ARP also supplied me with cam gear bolts.

I might still have the exact information for the studs , let me know if it would help and I'll look.

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The short studs for a small block chevy will work.  I've used the bolts from that location successfully so the studs should work also. 

 

I'm Curious:  what is the attraction of studs for this app?  I just don't see any upside.  These are low pressure engines and added clamping isn't really needed and studs can be a pain to remove the head sometimes.

 

I recall way back when they used to sell a kit, like a really thin holesaw to remove heads from flathead Fords.  That was because of the corrosion that caused them to stick.

 

I understand the need on supercharged/turbocharged or really high compression engines, but under 8:1 normally aspirated???

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I agree that extra clamping is not needed and that is not the reason that I used them on mine. Here are four pros and cons that I see with studs. For me, the pros outdid the cons.

 

Pros:

1. Original bolts are often corroded and won't seal properly into the water jacket. Original style bolts might be hard to come by.

2. Re-torquing. With studs, the thread sealant down in the block is not disturbed in the process.

3. The fine thread nuts with machined washers provide a more consistent and accurate torque reading, which translates into more even clamping pressure across the deck. When my engine had bolts, I blew out the head gasket a couple times. Since studs, no blow-outs.

4. Studs look cool and generate banter.

 

Cons:

1. Increased initial cost and labor.

2. difficulty installing and removing the head when in the vehicle.

3. If not painted, the stud tips, nuts, and washers eventually rust. Bolts can be painted with the block, but the paint gets disturbed when re-torqued.

4. Difficult removal if the thread sealant leaks (only on Ferds, though!)

 

EDIT: Photos below.

 

IMG_9851.JPG

IMG_9898.JPG

Edited by John-T-53
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many here used the studs for application when utilizing an aftermarket aluminum head as the stud, nut and washer combination provided better displacement of clamping force to the softer material...for any stock application, studs are trick but the value stops there in my opinion..

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I'm leaning toward using studs on my 265 rebuild.  The main reason is that, if I order long studs for all 21 locations, it gives me added flexibility for locating the brackets and things associated with the dual-carb throttle linkage setup I plan to use.  It also gives me added flexibility for accessories like the horn, but the main reason is for the throttle linkage.  I don't think I would have such flexibility in a bolt setup, since only a small handful of bolts have the threaded recess in the head of the bolt.

 

I also like the idea of having more uniform clamp-up across all studs, regardless of whether the stud goes into the water jacket or not - as opposed to the somewhat less uniform clamp-up that you get with bolts, because some need sealant to go into the water jacket and others don't (friction varies from the dry bolts vs. the bolts with sealant).  I suppose I could overcome this by using sealant on all bolts, regardless of whether they go into the water jacket or not.

 

I may take the time over the holidays to use ARP's catalog to figure out which studs would be right for my application.

 

Matt

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This was provided in a previous post by one our members.  I cant seem to locate the post to link but I had the info saved to my notepad.

 

 

ARP, Ventura, CA    10/12/16    

AP3.750-ILB     Head stud- 7/16/x 3.75 Long broached (21 @ $5.38)     $112.98 


APN58              7/16 x 20 Hex nut (head) (21 @ $ .80)                             $16.80 


APW1316N       7/16 ID 13/160D non-chamfered washer (21 @ $ .98     $20.58 
                                                                                               Shipping     $18.20 

 

I plan on ordering these in the near future

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Regard the benefits of studs....  When the shop rebuilt my engine the installed ARP studs without me requesting them.  They mentioned that they are best to produce less torquing pressure against the bolt thread on the block itself.  What they mentioned was that when torquing down the pressure woul be mostly on the finer pitched top part of the stud.   In my opinion without understanding too much on the mechanical advantage I would think the benefits are:

 

- Finer thread groove on top for finer torque alignment

- better gasket, head, and block alignment when istaling the head. (use stud as a guide)

- and......  third but not last , they look a hell of a lot cooler..

Edited by 40desoto
grammar
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If you had an old core engine using head studs you'd hate studs?

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