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Help ID-ing Mopar Transmission


keithb7

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Just remember anytime the Direct Speed Clutch Sleeve moves forward to engage the input shaft... the Constant mesh Gear Control Sleeve dis-engages the constant mest gear.

I think you are missing that the Direct speed clutch sleeve is always mechanically connected to 3rd gear via those six splines on 3rd gear hub.

3rd gear includes the splines that the direct speed clutch sleeve rides forward and back on...look at the end of your mainshaft...spin 3rd gear..It spins freely on the mainshaft unless the manual clutch sleeve is moved forward locking 3rd to the mainshaft... manual clutch sleeve moved back locks up 1st gear to the mainshaft.

In second gear the constant mesh gear just free wheels...

****So manual clutch sleeve pushed to rear ... locks up 1st gear to output shaft

****Direct Speed Clutch Sleeve pushed forward ..locks 3rd to input shaft and die-engages Constant mesh Gear...3rd gear rotates independently of mainshaft

So..............Powerflow is thru locked up  Input shaft and Direct Speed Clutch Sleeve..then to 3rd gear & hub splines.

                   3rd gear drives lower  back half of countershaft... back up to 1st gear locked onto the output shaft....then on to driveshaft

 

 

 

second.PNG

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We never got these new fangled gearbox thingys here in Oz so have never seen nor played with one so its good to see and hear what we missed out on........we got just the standard 3 speed, 3 speed with overdrive, Fluid drive & 3 speed, Powerflite and Torqueflite.........not sure that we suffered too much lacking these M6's etc............lol...........but its good to see and learn new things.....keep the posts coming..........andyd  

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  • 2 weeks later...

Holiday season has passed, and all the house guests have been here and gone. Now I am getting back to this transmission learning project.

I have pulled the main shaft from the rear housing. Output seat, retainer and bearing. The bearing feels rough. Not surprising.  Here is how the rear housing looks, apart.

Seal, bearing and clip seen here too.

 

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I am stumped trying to pull the pump out. The mainshaft bearing retainer plate is fastened to rear housing with 4 bolts. This retainer plate doubles as the pump housing end plate. I removed the four bolts, but can't seem to find a way to get the retainer cover off.  I referenced 3 manuals that I have. All just say "remove 4 bolts. Remove bearing retainer, inner and outer oil pump rotors.

 

Well I tried and I got a little rammie. I tried a drift and a small hammer, going in from the output end of the housing. There is little to nothing to push forward from the back side. I accidentally put my drift on the pump rotor and  I split the rotor.  My bad. As this is a spare tranny for me, and a learning experience, this is not devastating to me. I hate breaking up any old parts though. They don't make any new ones.  I am learning though!  So I come back here to ask for tips. 

 

Seen here is the rear housing. Pump side. You can see I have the retainer plate out a little on the left side. Tips to get the pump plate off are appreciated. Thx. Keith

 

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Edited by keithb7
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That bearing retainer is a very close and accurate fit to the extension housing. It's NOT a press fit though.

If there is any rust or dry grease holding it it can be tough to remove. It's down in the housing about a 1/2".

I assume you already pushed out the mainshaft.

If you look at the bearing retainer it has an oval slot opening on it's outer circumference. I use a large screw driver and wedge on that side prying up while using a 6" long drift pin or bolt on the opposong retainer bolt holes trying to rock that side loose and up. Going back and forth side to side working the retainer up..

The retainer will come out...they can be tough. Lube it well with your choice of lube.

That reatiner on an every day driven car will come out pretty easy.

M-6 Bearing oil pump retainer (1).JPG

M-6 Bearing oil pump retainer (2).JPG

M-6 Bearing oil pump retainer (3).JPG

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Yes, Dodge, I have been prying on that little oval slot opening. That is why that one side is slightly lifted up in the image above that I posted.  Thanks for the reply. That assures me.  Now that I know there is no special tool or procedure I will try getting creative and prying up both sides of the retainer somehow.

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Got it. I got a bigger, longer pry bar so I could get more leverage. It was almost out, but still hung up. I figured, I already broke the rotor. So what's one more tap from the back end with a drift? That did it. That oil pump is a cool simple eccentric design. It works well. Low pressure, it gets the job done. Looking at the photo you can see a notch in the inner centre of the rotor. This is for a small pin that is set into the transmission main shaft going through the pump centre, and out to the drive shaft to the diff.  The car moving, is turning the driveshaft, which turns the tranny main shaft, which in turns this oil pump. This pump provides pressure for the hydraulic shift piston action. Neat stuff...

 

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This next pic shows the oil passages on the back side of the pump. Neat castings here.

 

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Here you can see a good full shot of the main shaft. 1st and 3rd gear are on here. The last biggest on to the left end, is reverse. Of note, is the worm/spiral cuts seen in the main shaft toward the left just past the rear main support bearing. These cuts, mate with a gear and turns the speedometer cable drive. Depending on the car,  factors such kilometers or miles on speedometer, or stock tire size, different sized matching speedo drive gears are used. This tranny was used in many Mopar applications.

 

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Last pic of the day, here are my work conditions and my '53 in hibernation over the Canadian winter.

 

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Those pumps should  run at 40 PSI or higher.

I have seen many M-6's with badly scored rotors and housings.... causing low  oil pressure partial upshifst causing grinding and banging out of high!

Not something you ever want to see or feel in your car?

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I wanted to document what I learned, and post a video for others to learn from on You Tube.  This video was done from memory, based on what I learned here from @Dodgeb4ya and from reading through my shop manuals. I learned a lot here about these M6 transmissions. 

 

I realize there are other good learning sources courtesy of the Mopar Master Mechanic series. They are great. This was my way of explaining the workings of the tranny in simple stripped down terms. Maybe not 100% accurate in my word choices, as it was on the fly. No script, no editing. You Tube seems to be the Go-To place these days for most young people looking to learn about new things. So I thought it best to share my learnings there. Hopefully a future generation of Mopar finds something useful in my video. Thanks again Dodgeb4ya. Your help is much appreciated. I am not done yet with this tranny. I still want to get the countershaft out. However other projects have taken priority. I will get back to this tranny at a later date.

 

Cheers, Keith

 

https://youtu.be/DtqjLNEOpqc

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