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suggested master cylinder conversion 1939 New Photos


Dennis Detweiler

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i recently purchased a MC kit for my '50 from ECI.

it has been pretty problematic.

right now i'm dealing with not getting any fluid from the rear chamber to the combination valve.

the master cylinder comes with a fabricated bracket to fit the master in the old bracket holes.

that requires a linkage type push rod. the adjustment on it is limited and i'm not sure if i can adjust it far

enough to work the way i need it to.

there is VERY little information in the instructions they provide. they have been nice enough

when i've contacted them, but i still have some problems i need to work through.

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A few months ago had front disk brakes and dual master cylinder installed on my 39 Ply. Business Coupe.  Purchased the kit from Andy Berbaum which sells a kit provided by Engineered Components, Vernon, Ct. (860-872-7046) .  No complaints with how it works, the pedal is more firm and definitely stops better . Attached are photos of the master cylinder's location, it had been moved back several inches.  It is too long to fit into the original section of the frame, push rod had to be lengthened.  It comes with a plate which is fastened to the frame, and the master cylinder bolts to this plate.  Definitely  recommend a remote fill and or cut an access opening in the floor.  If you decide to use ECI recommend indicating when it is ordered that a remote fill is to be used, I didn't find out until later that ECI offers one.  I purchased a remote fill from Summit works great, however did not work with the master cylinder provided, the clip on the lid didn't match the lid with the remote fill, ECI won't take the master cylinder back.   Basically using the same master cylinder with a different lid. This winter, I am going to cut an access opening in the floor in the event that it would need servicing, as it is very close to the underside of the floor. 

Master_cylinder_location.docx

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I've been reading several previous posts concerning brands of adapters, brand and model M/C's, installation and function reviews. I have a Scarebird front disc brake conversion on my 39 Plymouth. It uses Chevy S-10 calipers.  

Scarebird makes a universal M/C adapter which looks like it can be positioned and drilled out to mount in place of my original M/C. Scarebird recommends using a Wilwood 260-7563 M/C kit which has a 1 inch bore which may be a Corvette M/C, but I have to look into it a little more? The Wilwood M/C kit includes the remote fillers. Summit and a few others carry this same kit.

So, my next question; has anyone used the Scarebird adapter along with the Wilwood 260-7563 M/C kit on a 39 or another year that had the identical frame and floor pedal setup? This M/C has ports on the bottom.

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  • 1 month later...
On ‎11‎/‎7‎/‎2018 at 5:29 AM, Richard Cope said:

Dennis,

 

I am located in central NJ, if you are in the area welcome to come and see the car.  The shop did document everything with photos, if interested I can upload this afternoon.

yes can you upload pictures of the full installation if possible, I have a 1941 4dr desoto custom S8, I bought system from ECI and this pics is what I am dealing with. 

1545593694295.jpg

1545422727986.jpg

1545593694120.jpg

1545593694194.jpg

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  • 3 weeks later...

Apologize for the haven't signed in for a while.  From looking at your frame, very different from the 39 Ply, appears larger with more space.  The master cylinder had to be moved a little to the rear a little due to limited space where the original was.  The size of my photos are too large will transfer some and get back this afternoon.  Works great, only problem was the proportional valve went bad recently. 

 

Regards,

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I settled on the Scarebird mount and the Wilwood 7563 master. The original master mounts in front of the brake/clutch pedals. Hopefully, I'll be able to bolt the adapter mount to the original frame location and still line up with the brake pedal, but doubtful.  If not, I'll have to make some modifications.

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  • 1 month later...

Hi Dennis,

 

I am actually going thru the same steps you took here.. My car is 1940 Chrysler Windsor Coupe, and just wondering if you were able to install the MC with adapter?

Do you have any pictures of the install?

 

Thank you in advance for any insight.

Danny

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22 hours ago, Dennis Detweiler said:

Hi Danny,

I won't be able to work on the 39 until the weather warms up. It's in my unheated detached garage. I'm in Iowa and knee deep in snow this Winter.

Oh man stay warm and will be looking forward to seeing your project move forward ;)

 

thanks

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  • 2 weeks later...

I'm in for future info updates. I've cleaned up all four corners cover bursting the rubber line to the rear end and then the steel line in the front left. Bled 32 ounces of new fluid through everything and now it pulls hard left and only stops in my driveway from low speed. 

 

My plan since I want to downsize rear tires is grab a 3.55-3.73 rear end from something else (which will have more modern parts and less expense), find a front disk kit, and a master. 

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  • 3 months later...

I had to remove the steering gear and send it to Nixa Missouri for restoration so, just now getting around to finding a location for the new M/C mount. The plate from Scarebird looks like it will likely  mount on the side of the original master and the new master will mount behind the gutted old one. A new and longer pushrod will travel through the old master to reach the new master.  I'll try and remember to take a few photos as it progresses.

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Some photos of the Adapter sold by Scarebird for Wilwood Master Cylinder use. It lines up perfectly behind the original master cylinder. I need to use countersink flat head screws 1/4 X 1 inch to replace the three in the photos. The brake pedal passes too close to the plate to allow for regular bolt heads. I tapped the old Master Cylinder, but will still use lock washers and nuts on the inside of the reservoir. I made 1 1/16 long spacers between the original mounting holes and the new plate. I will still need to do some cutting on the new plate to clear the clutch arm. I'll keep you posted. More photos in next post....

MC Adapter 1.JPG

MC Adapter 2.JPG

MC Adapter 3.JPG

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  • Dennis Detweiler changed the title to suggested master cylinder conversion 1939 New Photos
  • 2 weeks later...

Latest update photos. I had to install the old master cylinder on the other side of the frame mount to get the brake pedal to clear the new master cylinder custom mount. This created a conflict with the clutch pedal. So, I had to lop off some of the left side of the old master. This is what It looks like before I installed it into the car. I had to make a longer brake push rod to go through the old master and reach the new dual reservoir. So far, so good.....

Latest Master Cylinder1.JPG

Latest Master Cylinder2.JPG

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Here is what I did. To me it’s much less complicated, however this is on a ‘53 Plymouth Suburban frame. The down side is that the reservoir is above the floor pan, but it is far enough back so does not interfere with anything. The new MC is a 98 Wrangler. 

 

B21A0319-37BD-4FA4-86FF-7CC894CCDD60.jpeg

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The Wilwood remote reservoirs that came with it will be mounted on the firewall under the hood. Next is mounting some new brake lines and I want to move the flexible lines going to the front disc brakes to a better location for turning clearance. Likely all new copper/nickel lines on the front. I like the idea of the Wilwood bleeders on the master cylinder to eliminate the need to bench bleed. Just hook it all up, bleed the master in place, then the wheels. I have a proportioning valve on order. The 2# and 10# valves are already in place.

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  • 4 months later...
On 11/7/2018 at 7:29 AM, Richard Cope said:

Dennis,

 

I am located in central NJ, if you are in the area welcome to come and see the car.  The shop did document everything with photos, if interested I can upload this afternoon.

I would be very interested in your photos as I have purchased 1939 Plymouth P8 and want to add disc brakes to the front.

 

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The Wilwood 1 inch bore wasn't large enough to get a good pedal. I rebuilt the original 1  1/4 inch bore master and now have a solid pedal with very little travel. I kept the Wilwood 2# residual to the front discs and 10# residual to the rear. I'm using a Wilwood proportioning valve to the rear brakes, but have it set wide open which gives it 57% pressure to the rear. I feel like it could probably use a little more pressure, but the proportioning valve is at it's max. It could be that the Wilwood was defective? The pedal travel on it went half way to the floor and very spongy. I tried all methods of bleeding and could never get the sponginess out of it. The Original master was a quick bleed and finished. I kept one of the Wilwood remote reservoirs on the firewall and sealed the 6 master top plate bolts with nylon washers and used a nipple filler plug in place of the original filler plug and ran a hose up to the remote reservoir. Now I can see if it's low on fluid and fill it without having to pull the carpet and floor access cover to get to the master cylinder.

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I copied some of the photos the shop took during the conversion into a Word file, converted into a Pdf, however both are  too large to attach.  If you forward your e-mail will send to you.   Putting the master cylinder on, required the most work, space is really tight under the 39.  Stock wheels will not work, I used Croker's 4.5 X16, which worked fine with my 600x16 bias tires.   However I found that even though the brakes stopped the wheels good, didn't seem to be enough traction between the tire and road, especially if the road is wet as the 39 coupe is  light.  By bias tires only have 3,000 miles on them and show no dry rot, however they are 20 + years old therefore wanted to replace them.  Initially was going to change to 600X16 radials however ultimately when to 215/70/R16, purchased from Diamond Tire as white walls.  The diameter is the same (speedometer not affected), however much wider.  From the side view car looks the same, from the front or rear can see the tires are wider.  Steers, handles and brakes much better with the wider tires.  Using Summit smoothie 16 X6 in wheels.   I wanted to use stock hubcaps, welded tabs purchased from Mopar Pro onto the wheels. 

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When I bought my car it had wheel adapters and 15 inch wheels and radials fit to make them the diameter of the originals. However, I didn't need the front adapters after installing the Scarebird disc conversion. The rotors are S-10 pickup and an inch wider than the stock 39. They matched up with the 1 inch adapters on the rear.

My email: detsolon2@webtv.net

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