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1940 Chrysler Windsor Coupe brake conversion


dangulo

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Hello All,

 

Excited to get started on the front disc conversion for several reasons. One reason is that this will be my first conversion that I am actually tackling myself and second for all the reasons to make her safer. I feel that this will not be a weekend job but will actually take me longer than expected. After receiving the kit in the mail, I started the tear down.

The next is what I am I found during the tear down..

  • Inner/Outer tie rods need new ends/bushings
  • Upper and lower outer bushing need replacement
  • Steering arm and basically everything else is gunked with grease and dirt/mud....
  • King pins
  • And the best surprise is what seems to be a bent knuckle spindle support on the passenger side. I suspected something was fishy when the I disconnected the steering arm and could not turn the spindle without using massive force..
  • Well this just means that I will have to order some front end suspension to replace and make the conversion take a little longer than expected.
  • On the bright side, once I started putting some elbow grease some parts were looking pretty good.

 

Here are some pics I took while doing the tear down for reference which will help me remember where everything goes..

Lets just say that I am not surprised that I'm not surprised... hmmm sounds like a good country song title...

 

 

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Edited by dangulo
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1 hour ago, dangulo said:

Hello All,

 

Excited to get started on the front disc conversion for several reasons. One reason is that this will be my first conversion that I am actually tackling myself and second for all the reasons to make her safer. I feel that this will not be a weekend job but will actually take me longer than expected. After receiving the kit in the mail, I started the tear down.

The next is what I am I found during the tear down..

  • Inner/Outer tie rods need new ends/bushings
  • Upper and lower outer bushing need replacement
  • Steering arm and basically everything else is gunked with grease and dirt/mud....
  • King pins
  • And the best surprise is what seems to be a bent knuckle spindle support on the passenger side. I suspected something was fishy when the I disconnected the steering arm and could not turn the spindle without using massive force..
  • Well this just means that I will have to order some front end suspension to replace and make the conversion take a little longer than expected.
  • On the bright side, once I started putting some elbow grease some parts were looking pretty good.

 

Here are some pics I took while doing the tear down for reference which will help me remember where everything goes..

Lets just say that I am not surprised that I'm not surprised... hmmm sounds like a good country song title...

 

 

IMG_4391.jpg

IMG_4406.jpg

IMG_4431.jpg

IMG_4425.jpg

IMG_4424.jpg

IMG_4421.jpg

IMG_4436.jpg

IMG_4441.jpg

IMG_4440.jpg

IMG_4437.jpg

IMG_4439.jpg

IMG_4438.jpg

The good news is you found all these problems right now,and once you correct them and get your car back on the road it will drive like a new one,and your front end will be trouble-free for years. MUCH better to do this all at once while you have it apart than it is to keep pulling it apart to fix things one at a time.

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Well, yep, that spindle support IS bent..........they are essentially the same part thru to 1948 at least but from 42 on the shock absorber pin hole is occupied by a welded in stud, the spindle can be made to use on the 1940 cars by drilling out the welded in stud..............also I suggest keeping the lower outer bush hex headed rubber seal as these are not sometimes supplied in rebuild kits....also note which way the cotter pin or dowell is installed that locks the king pin into the spindle as it is removed or tapped out from the opposite side...................he metal dust seals or caps at the top & bottom of the king pins are just small welch plugs...................and if you have problems in finding the specific 1940 upper inner pins & bushes and the 39/40 outer pins & bushes you CAN replace the whole 1940 upper A arm and inner/outer pin & bush assembly with the complete 1941-1954 assembly which are generally much easier and cheaper to find........note also that any parts listed for 7 passenger vehicles do NOT fit the normal cars as far as I am aware............regards, andyd   

Edited by Andydodge
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Today the tear down continued as well as some interesting findings.. This car seemed to be buried sometime BETWEEN 1940 and 2018 as I dug up all this large pile of dirt...lol

both lower control arms had about the same amount of dirt which was a ridiculous amount LOL... The good news is that no more dirt after I used my scraper to break loose all the dirt following up with the vacuum... The not so good news is for my wallet will be to replace new inner lower control arms with bushings/rubbers.. but will be worth it.

 

I am also considering upgrading the sway bar to a thicker size as I have been reading some cool stuff here on Pp15-d24 forums.

That will be next on my list but one step at a time.

 

 

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Btw.................the lower inner and upper inner both use a rubber seal that is basically like a piece of rubber tube or hose and hose can be used if need be..........andyd. 

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@Adam H P15 D30 I think you might be right, called fatman to get some info, they suggested I send the one of my uprights to confirm that their mopar drop uprights fit. So might just do that since I will have more time than money at the moment. Also I figured I can work on other front end stuff while I save enough for the upright kit.

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  • 2 weeks later...

The journey is moving forward... as I am waiting and saving for front end suspension parts, decided to replace the oil pan gasket. 

Main reason is due to oil leaks all around the oil pan including where it meets the clutch plate. Seems that this would be a good time to replace oil pan gasket since it would be easier to access while the front end is take apart.

 

Overall, there oil seems to be okay... I expected to see sludge but to my surprise no sludge.. yah!

What I did find is a grey discoloring on the oil pump filter. Makes me think of water leak coming in but not quite sure... I will probably still replace the oil gasket as a rebuild is way out of the budget for the time being.

 

Any pointers or gotchas I should be aware of? What are things I should look into while I have her belly open..?

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I'd give the oil pan a thorough degrease and cleanout, also unbolt the oil strainer pickup and clean it out as well while I had the sump off........new pan side gaskets and front & rear gaskets and make sure not to overtighten the pan bolts, they should be tight but not so much that you squeeze the crap out of the cork and they break and allow oil to leak again..........that engine looks like its been apart recently as the pan doesn't seem to have much in the way of crud........which may or may not be a good thing.........lol..................andyd  

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What you are seeing on your finger may just be a result of condensation if it hasn't been started   and ran down the road several times long enough to get every part in the engine up to normal operating temps so the heat could evaporate the natural condensation from starting and cold running.

 

Plus,remember,the old straight 30 and 40 weight oil everybody used to run in these engines tends to trap water in it,anyway. That is almost certainly the wrong term,but I have never seen the base pans of modern cars look all crudded up with black and gray like is typical with the old cars.

 

I suspect that once you get it all cleaned out it will stay clean if you drive it enough to get it to operating temps before shutting it down,even if you use modern non-detergent straight 30 or 40 wt oil. Oil is a LOT better than it used to be.

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The grey could also be bearing material. I'd take a couple of caps off and make sure there's a decent amount of white metal on them. I'm sure it's condensation, but while you're in there...

 

Cheers

 

Rick

 

Edited by Ricky Luke
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Yes - thank you all for the great feed back. As some of you mentioned, I am considering replacing the lower rear main seal since I already there..

 

As I am reading topics here on p15-d24 in regards to replacing the rear/front main seal, I should first remove prior to purchasing to match the upper seals (since I wont be pulling engine)..

On a separate note, my only confusion is the clutch housing dust cover. Mine is seen better days so I will be replacing. The rubber or what seems to be cloth is riveted and if you fellas or gals know where I can find one would be great to know.

I 've searched for hours last night and can't seem to find one. 

It covers where the oil pan rear meets the clutch housing. I'm not even sure if I identified it correctly as the clutch housing seal.. LOL

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  • 2 weeks later...

A little bit of progress this weekend, the lower control arm kit came in the mail (yay).

Also, I got the king pins back from machine shop which were pressed and done right! They look really good and have no play so pretty excited about how they turned out.. 

The spindle bottom holes and steering arms have also been drilled/tapped for my Rustyhope disc brake set up.

Next paycheck will be to order the upper control arm kit which I was able to find some NOSR american made parts.. But will still need to find some eccentric bushings.

 

Here are some pics of how its looking at the moment.

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Happy thanksgiving to all, this was a great week here with family and friends. In addition, I was to be able to sneak away and work on the C25.. ;)

I was able to finally attach the lower control arms with new bushings/seals on both sides and so now to move on the upper control arms.

Luckily I was able to find some american made Moog NOSR parts for the upper shafts w/bushings as well as NOSR eccentric bushing for both sides. 

Nothing against anything new nowadays but some of my experience with "new" parts made overseas has not been or worked for me the best.

On the other hand, still looking for tie rods both inner/outer so any insight with positive feedback where to buy would be helpful... 

In the meantime while waiting for parts to come in...clutch cover before and after with my HB parts cleaner in action..

Next I plan to move onto the oil pan, which I been trying to remove little dents here and there... not to bad but after using my grinder with a wire wheel its starting to look promising.

This is probably a good time to experiment with engine colors which I am leaning for bronze or copper color... well see as how that "pans" out... 

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Edited by dangulo
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Im not sure If I missed the info in between one of your previous posts, but what brake kit are you using?

 

Im working on a 1940 desoto coupe,installed fatman dropped uprights, and using the scarbird disk brake kit.

What master cylinder are you planning on using?

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@40desoto I am going with rustyhope brake kit. Already purchased the parts needed for full conversion (from parts list) other than master cylinder. Since the front end needed a full rebuild my brake conversion has drifted to a full front end rebuild, so in other words, I haven't focused on the master cylinder yet... I know I need to but will do when I get there.. ;)

Man I also wanted to go with fatman dropped uprights but since the front end needed a full rebuilt I needed to shift the funds to making safe and fun to drive...

My plan is to lower the front just enough where the wheel well meets the whitewall so to get there will be to either cut coils or purchase shorter coils.

 

Ya will definitely be interested on what you end up going with... Will be looking out for that so please post share your insights on a master cylinder. 

Edited by dangulo
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@Plymouthy Adams thanks for the heads up, I've also seen some use moog p/n 8234 

Here are some of the specs I found https://www.fmmotorparts.com/fmstorefront/federalmogul/en/USD/Suspension/Coil-Spring-Sets%2C-Seats%2C-and-Insulators/CS-CoilSpringSet/MOOG-Coil-Spring-Set/p/AMGCC850?categoryCode=CSCoilSpringSet#.W_2DaWhKiUk    If I have mis-quoted please correct me ;)

8234: Dimension - 

ID 3.88 inches

Bar Dia 0.62 inches

Spring Rate/lbs - 283

Load - lbs - 1668

Installed Height - 10.50 inches

Free Height - 16.31 inches

 

CC850: Dimension - 

ID 4.07 inches

Bar Dia 0.75 inches

Spring Rate/lbs - 605

Load - lbs - 1825

Installed Height - 8.75 inches

Free Height - 11.65 inches

 

The obvious difference  is height and spring rate.. .Now I need to do further research on my 1940 Chrysler specs and try to interpret how spring rate and height get me to where I want... 

 

Also, sorry if this is an obvious question but what exactly is the spring pockets? Is that the same as insulator? If so mine had both upper and lower insulators along with a spacer only onthe driver side... weird but that's what i found LoL.

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the lower a-arm.....the seat for the spring is often called the pocket....as the spring nestles in there, this triangular plate can be removed from the top of the a-arm and relocated to the bottom....many here have reportedly done that and has lowered their vehicle a tad more in the process....just something you  may wish to consider....look it over closely and make your call...maybe a couple who have done this will chime in....unfortunately I do not have a close up pic of the a-arm to display here either stock or modified with reference to moving mount to lower side

 

 

Edited by Plymouthy Adams
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Plymouthy's A Arm suggestion is a good one to lower the front of the car, however I cut one coil from the original front springs on my 1941 Plymouth which uses essentially the same front suspension as well as installing 2" thick square steel lowering blocks on the rear springs........the attached pic shows the height that the car ended up at, this was with 15 x 6, 15 x 7 Wheel Vintiques Chrome smoothies and 195/75 x 15 and 235/75 x 15 Coker Classic Whitewall radials..........the wheels had the standard as delivered offset and neither front or back tyres or rims hit inner or outer wheel arches or suspension.............with the cut coils the ride was fairly harsh but I intended to get new coils either made or from something else, but I sold the car so shite happens..............lol..........5yrs on and I still think I was a dope for selling it...........duh!............lol...........andyd   

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Edited by Andydodge
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