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1950 PLYMOUTH SPECIAL DELUXE 4 DOOR ( 3 ON THE TREE TO AUTOMATIC )


Abdul2018

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I have a 1950 Plymouth Special Deluxe 4 door with the 6 flat and 3 on the tree converted to 12v . Looking to change the tranny to Automatic is that possible ? and how do you guys did yours? Just trying to get some ideas and suggestions.
Any advice is greatly appreciated.
thanks

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Abdul, welcome aboard the best mopar forum, these guys know their stuff...as for an auto I'd think the simplest would be to find the complete auto trans setup from a mid to late 50's Plymouth or Dodge that came with either the PowerFlite 2 speed auto or the 3 speed TorqueFlite auto, both were used behind the 23" engine however there maybe an isssue with the crankshaft flange in that the number of bolts used on your crankshaft flange maybe different to that used by either auto trans...........I also think the PowerFlite is an aircooled torque converter whereas the Torqueflite uses a separate cooler in the radiator with lines going to/from the trans which can be easily overcome using an aftermarket cooler..........or maybe find the complete engine/auto trans from the 50's era mopar and swap the complete unit over.............another thought would be to investigate whether Wilcap Engineering still list an adaptor to bolt an auto trans to your engine and that maybe an even simplier method as it will probably use a more recent and more common auto trans.............however using a non mopar auto or recent auto will invariably mean that you no longer will have the standard mopar parking brake which was on the end of the mopar trans whether manual or auto up until 1962 and you would then have to swap in a late model rear axle with the included parking brakes in the brake drums............lol...........nothing is ever quite as straight forward as it seems.............unless you have the mechanical aptitude and or skills/experience to do the conversion it maybe if you must have an automatic be better to find a newer mopar with this feature already built in.................I hope this helps a bit............regards from Oz........Andy Douglas    

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1 hour ago, Andydodge said:

Abdul, welcome aboard the best mopar forum, these guys know their stuff...as for an auto I'd think the simplest would be to find the complete auto trans setup from a mid to late 50's Plymouth or Dodge that came with either the PowerFlite 2 speed auto or the 3 speed TorqueFlite auto, both were used behind the 23" engine however there maybe an isssue with the crankshaft flange in that the number of bolts used on your crankshaft flange maybe different to that used by either auto trans...........I also think the PowerFlite is an aircooled torque converter whereas the Torqueflite uses a separate cooler in the radiator with lines going to/from the trans which can be easily overcome using an aftermarket cooler..........or maybe find the complete engine/auto trans from the 50's era mopar and swap the complete unit over.............another thought would be to investigate whether Wilcap Engineering still list an adaptor to bolt an auto trans to your engine and that maybe an even simplier method as it will probably use a more recent and more common auto trans.............however using a non mopar auto or recent auto will invariably mean that you no longer will have the standard mopar parking brake which was on the end of the mopar trans whether manual or auto up until 1962 and you would then have to swap in a late model rear axle with the included parking brakes in the brake drums............lol...........nothing is ever quite as straight forward as it seems.............unless you have the mechanical aptitude and or skills/experience to do the conversion it maybe if you must have an automatic be better to find a newer mopar with this feature already built in.................I hope this helps a bit............regards from Oz........Andy Douglas    

Another option for an emergency brake would be to just swap the complete rear brake assemblies including the backing plates and drums from a more modern car to your original rear end. That would be easier to do because you wouldn't have to remove and replace the rear end ,but would still leave you with gearing a lot lower than you would want for  highway driving if your car car with a overdrive transmission.

 

Either way you go,plan on pulling the drums to have them turned and to rebuild the brakes with new wheel cylinders and new brake shoes after turning the drums.

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As stated above, the 230 had autos fitted in the mid to late 50s from the factory.  The powerflite or torqueflite (cast iron version).  The torqueflite could be had in either water or air cooled, I think only air cooled behing 6 cyl or smaller v8s.  I had a Dodge 325 with the air cooled version way back when.

 

There is a guy over on the HAMB that has a torqueflite from a package van.  Last time he mentioned it it was complete.  that has the ebrake, pushbutton shift etc.

 

I don't know about under car clearances but otherwise that should be a boltin, IF your crank bolt count and pattern is the same.

Edited by kencombs
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14 minutes ago, Plymouthy Adams said:

I would not mess with the antiquated tranny myself...I have a 54 w/230 with an automatic and while it is nice (powerflite) I would never go out of my way to retro fit one.

The charm is there IS no "retrofitting",and since there is next to zero demand,the stuff is cheap if you can find it. It's  a simple bolt it together and go riding" deal. That's why people want to do it. Simple AND cheap.

Edited by knuckleharley
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3 hours ago, Plymouthy Adams said:

it will be a retrofit...as the very car in question is 1950 and the automatic was not offered for that year, but available in mid production 54 earliest in Plymouth brand.

Will it,or will it not bolt directly to the original engine with no modifications and no adapters of any kind? If he can score the driveshaft out of the donor car,even that will work if the wheelbase is the same.

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8 minutes ago, knuckleharley said:

Will it,or will it not bolt directly to the original engine with no modifications and no adapters of any kind? If he can score the driveshaft out of the donor car,even that will work if the wheelbase is the same.

 

I did not ever state that it would not fit, only that it would be a retrofit if you did such.....and there is the crankshaft bolt issue...

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3 hours ago, Plymouthy Adams said:

I would not mess with the antiquated tranny myself...I have a 54 w/230 with an automatic and while it is nice (powerflite) I would never go out of my way to retro fit one.

There's really nothing antiquated about that torqueflite, unless you are counting a 3spd auto as old tech.  No overdrive, but a darn good trans.  Much more suited to the 230 than a 2spd.

Edited by kencombs
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of the flathead era and the very trannies that were attached to them back then, they are quite heavy...no one says they not good...just not worth the effort to install was MY OPINION given the later units with OD built in..if you going to spend the time energy and money..this is the pay off...

 

I can speak of this with 54 and the 230 with Powerflite, put the pedal down and yes will bark a tire now and then but the sweet part is that it will run to about 52-53 MPH then shift into high...it's no slouch...but would I mess with the Powerflite if not stock installed....I would think that would be a resounding NO

Edited by Plymouthy Adams
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As someone who has installed a 318 Poly with its attached 3 speed cast iron push button Torqueflite in an early car, ie, my 1940 Dodge the main thing that Abdul needs to consider is whether to just swap the gearbox, the engine and gearbox and then what sort.......ideally if he uses the mopar sourced gearbox then in theory he still has the park brake on the driveshaft............if he swaps a later, say post 62 gearbox or non mopar box then the park brake has to come from somewhere, the idea of just swapping the rear brakes is good but maybe complicated and a complete rear axle swap may be an easier option there.............there are a couple of options available including a late gearbox with overdrive but the main thing I think is Abduls skill & experience level...........anyway I hope he gets the idea that there are a few of us here that are more than keen to offer suggestions, ideas and help.........andyd   

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the Powerflite e-brake when introduced is nice in that the shoes are internal to a drum and backing plate on the end of the transmission and fully adjustable in the same fashion of any brake shoes set up.  I still have an early cast iron torqueflite here at the house in small V8 connected to a 360 that was at one time in a 50 Dodge with e-brade drum and a 62 push button torqueflite in /6 clothing....parts are available but last I checked, a bit higher in cost, but, what isn't these days

 

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4 hours ago, Plymouthy Adams said:

of the flathead era and the very trannies that were attached to them back then, they are quite heavy...no one says they not good...just not worth the effort to install was MY OPINION given the later units with OD built in..if you going to spend the time energy and money..this is the pay off...

 

I can speak of this with 54 and the 230 with Powerflite, put the pedal down and yes will bark a tire now and then but the sweet part is that it will run to about 52-53 MPH then shift into high...it's no slouch...but would I mess with the Powerflite if not stock installed....I would think that would be a resounding NO

I agree wholeheartedly on the powerflite, but the Torqueflite is a totally different animal.  Yes, OD would be nice, but the torqueconverter and nice gear spreads make the use of a much higher rear gear possible.

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12 hours ago, kencombs said:

I agree wholeheartedly on the powerflite, but the Torqueflite is a totally different animal.  Yes, OD would be nice, but the torqueconverter and nice gear spreads make the use of a much higher rear gear possible.

Guys,the reality is the Powerflite is a good transmission,and as good as a torqueflite for it's purpose. If you want a fast car,you are going to be building a flat 6 218 or 230 40's or 50's Mopar anyway. These are fine cars to drive,but they ain't Max Wedge Valiants.

 

For a car like a 50 Plymouth their advantage is if you find one,you can buy it cheaper than you can buy a 727 Torqueflite. Best bet is to buy a whole parts car so you can get all the linkages,driveshaft,rear end,shifter,etc,etc,etc,and sell off the parts you don't use to get your money back. If you are lucky,you might even get a good 230 with more horsepower at the same time. I bought a almost complete 55 Plymouth Savoy 4dr with a 230 missing the exhaust manifold,carb,radiator,and seats for 250 bucks,and it has the old torqueflite in it with the dash shift rod,driveshaft,rear end,and rebuildable engine. For all I know,the engine may even be good. The guy I bought it from claimed it ran good and he had planned to restore it,but ran into money problems and started parting it out. I know I will put a manifold and carb on it and start the engine to check it out after running a compression test when I get to the point where I need a engine for my 42 Dodge coupe. Stock 55 230's have a lot more power than stock 42 230's.

 

I already sold the front bumper to a board member and got some of my money back,and there is bound to be somebody looking for a trunk lid,doors,fenders,and glasses. At a minimum I will break even while getting the parts I wanted and helping someone else find some parts they need,too.

 

You can also bet  I will be pulling that beautiful dashboard to hang on the wall of my shop before the body goes off to never-never land,too.

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